A small question on Ismain pronounciation

Questions or discussions about Almea or Verduria-- also the Incatena. Also good for postings in Almean languages.
Post Reply
User avatar
Ghost
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:59 am
Location: Great Britannia
Contact:

A small question on Ismain pronounciation

Post by Ghost »

Are EI and other diphthongs in Isma?n one sound, or seperate? Is Emei [EmEi]?

Ghost :?
[url=http://www.emalaith.com/census.html]ZBB Census 2006[/url]

zompist
Boardlord
Boardlord
Posts: 3368
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Location: In the den
Contact:

Re: A small question on Ismain pronounciation

Post by zompist »

Ghost wrote:Are EI and other diphthongs in Isma?n one sound, or seperate? Is Emei [EmEi]?
Separate, and each counts as a syllable, so it's [E 'mE i].

User avatar
Whimemsz
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 690
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:56 pm
Location: Gimaamaa onibaaganing

Post by Whimemsz »

On the same subject, is the Isma?n /r/ pronounced [4] or [r]? What about /r=/, is it [4=], [r=], or [r\=]? Or something different?

zompist
Boardlord
Boardlord
Posts: 3368
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Location: In the den
Contact:

Post by zompist »

Whimemsz wrote:On the same subject, is the Isma?n /r/ pronounced [4] or [r]? What about /r=/, is it [4=], [r=], or [r\=]? Or something different?
Oh, you kids and your SAMPA. It's intended to be an approximant, probably similar to an English (i.e. of England) r, but neither flapped nor trilled.

User avatar
Ghost
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:59 am
Location: Great Britannia
Contact:

Post by Ghost »

Whimz, as you know Mandarin, could you help me with the alveolo-palatal fricatives ? & j. They're a bit confusing to me.
zompist wrote:Oh, you kids and your SAMPA.
:P

Ghost :roll:
[url=http://www.emalaith.com/census.html]ZBB Census 2006[/url]

User avatar
pharazon
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:51 am
Location: Ann Arbor
Contact:

Post by pharazon »

? is basically a /S/ with the tongue raised so there's friction at the palate, as for /C/ (and as a result the tip is pushed forward a bit to become alveolar).

User avatar
Whimemsz
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 690
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:56 pm
Location: Gimaamaa onibaaganing

Post by Whimemsz »

Ghost wrote:Whimz, as you know Mandarin, could you help me with the alveolo-palatal fricatives ? & j. They're a bit confusing to me.
I'm flattered that you'd ask me, especially since I know about 20 words in Mandarin. Nevertheless...

Like /S/, but laminal, would be a close approximation, I'd say. And <j> is the voiced version. In other words, what Pharazon said.

User avatar
Salmoneus
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3197
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: One of the dark places of the world

Post by Salmoneus »

Whimemsz wrote:
Ghost wrote:Whimz, as you know Mandarin, could you help me with the alveolo-palatal fricatives ? & j. They're a bit confusing to me.
I'm flattered that you'd ask me, especially since I know about 20 words in Mandarin. Nevertheless...

Like /S/, but laminal, would be a close approximation, I'd say. And <j> is the voiced version. In other words, what Pharazon said.
Is not /S/ normally laminal?
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

User avatar
Whimemsz
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 690
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:56 pm
Location: Gimaamaa onibaaganing

Post by Whimemsz »

Salmoneus wrote:
Whimemsz wrote:
Ghost wrote:Whimz, as you know Mandarin, could you help me with the alveolo-palatal fricatives ? & j. They're a bit confusing to me.
I'm flattered that you'd ask me, especially since I know about 20 words in Mandarin. Nevertheless...

Like /S/, but laminal, would be a close approximation, I'd say. And <j> is the voiced version. In other words, what Pharazon said.
Is not /S/ normally laminal?
And by "laminal", I of course mean "the thing after laminal, whatever that may be."

Aidan
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 12:03 am
Location: Tâl Katar
Contact:

Post by Aidan »

Salmoneus wrote:
Whimemsz wrote:Like /S/, but laminal, would be a close approximation, I'd say. And <j> is the voiced version. In other words, what Pharazon said.
Is not /S/ normally laminal?
Is it? I don't think so, it seems primarily apical to me, though there is a bit of lamina action.

User avatar
Salmoneus
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3197
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: One of the dark places of the world

Post by Salmoneus »

IMI, its completely unapical. Tip of the tongue is behind the bottom gums. Except in /tS/, when it starts apical and moves laminal, but nnever as laminal as by itself.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

User avatar
Dudicon
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 12:07 am
Location: The Palace of the Sun God
Contact:

Post by Dudicon »

Salmoneus wrote:IMI, its completely unapical. Tip of the tongue is behind the bottom gums. Except in /tS/, when it starts apical and moves laminal, but nnever as laminal as by itself.
The apex is the tip of the tongue, and the lamina the bit right behind it, to clear up any confusion.

User avatar
Salmoneus
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3197
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: One of the dark places of the world

Post by Salmoneus »

Yes, I know. Although I think laminal refers to any sound where the articulator is the blade of the tongue, rather than the tip - no matter how far back from the tip it may be.

My /S/ has the frication caused by the blade, far back. My /tS/ has an apical /t/, and then the /S/ starts apical and moves back to laminal as the tongue moves forward. But this time it is the front of the blade, a short distance behind the tip.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

User avatar
Dudicon
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 12:07 am
Location: The Palace of the Sun God
Contact:

Post by Dudicon »

Salmoneus wrote:Yes, I know. Although I think laminal refers to any sound where the articulator is the blade of the tongue, rather than the tip - no matter how far back from the tip it may be.
Quite right--poor wording on my part.

User avatar
Nuntar
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:07 am
Location: [16.50.72.0]
Contact:

Post by Nuntar »

Salmoneus wrote:My /S/ has the frication caused by the blade, far back. My /tS/ has an apical /t/, and then the /S/ starts apical and moves back to laminal as the tongue moves forward. But this time it is the front of the blade, a short distance behind the tip.
That seems rather weird to me; I'm pretty sure my /tS/ and /S/ are both laminal, as is post-alveolar /t/ by itself (e.g. in select).

Post Reply