Iilu healing question

con quesa · Post by **con quesa** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:42 pm

According to the Visitors Guide to Verduria

If an iliu offers to treat you, however, accept without hesitation.

Why? Do the iliu have some kind of supernatural healing power? Or perhaps they have medical technology as advanced or more than that of Earth.

Post by **zompist** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:23 am

con quesa wrote:
If an iliu offers to treat you, however, accept without hesitation.
Why? Do the iliu have some kind of supernatural healing power? Or perhaps they have medical technology as advanced or more than that of Earth.

For future reference, there's a scene in In the Land of Babblers that will illustrate why.

A good deal of it is part of enhanced iliu sensory and cognitive abilities-- to a large extent they can directly perceive what's going on inside other bodies, and to a lesser extent manipulate it. Not all ilii are good at this, or have the special knowledge of human anatomy to make it really effective.

Drydic · Post by **Drydic** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:47 am

Damn that's going to be a good book.

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:33 am

Drydic_guy wrote:Damn that's going to be a good book.

I better be published in England. I want to be able to tell my school-mates I know an author. And, more importantly, I want to read it.

Come on Zomp, hurry up and publish it. Blackmail, bribery, deaththreats, I don't care, as long as it's published!

Ghost

Warmaster · Post by **Warmaster** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:34 pm

me want babblers, and probobly won't get it for a long time

So Haleza Grise · Post by **So Haleza Grise** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:49 pm

What worries me is the thought that Babblers might only get published if editorial changes were made . . . there are too many publishers who are like TV execs - fearful of difference and innovation.

Warmaster · Post by **Warmaster** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:47 pm

So Haleza Grise wrote:What worries me is the thought that Babblers might only get published if editorial changes were made . . . there are too many publishers who are like TV execs - fearful of difference and innovation.

Stop, thats just depressing

Post by **zompist** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:03 pm

So Haleza Grise wrote:What worries me is the thought that Babblers might only get published if editorial changes were made . . . there are too many publishers who are like TV execs - fearful of difference and innovation.

Eh, that's the least of my worries. It's not like movies, where the writer is just a hired hand. Publishers get so many submissions these days that they're not even likely to tell a new writer to make massive changes; they'll just reject him and move on.

The real problem, I think, is that Babblers isn't a blockbuster first book. Compare Tolkien's publishing history: could he have published the Silmarillion first, then LOTR, then The Hobbit? No way. Some fans prefer the Silmarillion, but he had to create those fans by publishing the more accessible books first.

My current plan is to concentrate on selling the LCK and a science fiction novel (current title is AD 4901).

If that doesn't work, I may consider self-publishing. You all want to buy dead-trees books, right?

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:51 pm

zompist wrote:If that doesn't work, I may consider self-publishing. You all want to buy dead-trees books, right?

Absolutely! I, for one, am a big dead-trees guy.

(Although I do feel a bit sorry for the trees... In addition to my own reading and writing, my day job as a clerical employee at a hospital chews up vast quantities of them on a daily basis.

)

While I have been particularly interested in Babblers (and, to some extent, other Almeana), I certainly would not mind seeing the LCK in print, not to mention your sci-fi novels--I'm presuming that AD 4901 takes place in the same future setting that you've mentioned a couple of times (notably in the early days of the ZBB).

p@,
Glenn

Aurora Rossa · Post by **Aurora Rossa** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:55 pm

Would the Verdurians' sexism be a turn off for the average reader?

Shm Jay · Post by **Shm Jay** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:04 pm

You need to make it Sword-and-Sorcery. That's what the market wants.

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:16 pm

Eddy the Great wrote:Would the Verdurians' sexism be a turn off for the average reader?

Before the replies start flowing in...

Eddy, if you ever actually took a look at Verduria in depth, you would find that it is actually less sexist than the majority of stereotypical fantasy settings on the market, less sexist than the historical societies it is based on, and less sexist (certainly no more) than what mainstream readers are accustomed to. Verdurian history, and Mark's stories, include reigning queens and other strong female figures--after all, in the "present day", the heir to the Verdurian throne is female, Crown Princess Tilye.

The various Almean cultures show a wide (and realistic) range of gender roles and other beliefs--including the scientific questioning of those beliefs in recent times; they are certainly not locked in either religion or superstition. And that's just with human history; as I never tire of repeating, there are also the iliu--an advanced, wise, and intelligent race that possess a communal, egalitarian society, without gender barriers or other taboos, and which is held in awe and admiration by the human peoples. As I've said before, I suspect that the ilii are largely the reflection of Mark's own ideals, and they certainly form a compelling counterpoint to your own objections.

No, Almea is not a perfect world, but it's not meant to be, and I think that its depth will appeal to readers. It might seem nice to portray a "perfect" world, but showing all of the shades of gray can be both more realistic, and more moving. And authors often create settings (and characters) with problems and inequalities for the very purpose of highlighting those problems, and showing what the ramifications of them are. (The only genre of "perfect" worlds I've ever heard of are the "socialist realism" novels of the early Soviet period in the USSR, in which all criticism of the burgeoning Soviet state was banned--and these are certainly not held up as great literary works today.)

Anyhoo, that's my opinion; I really don't want to go over the subject again.

Enough said; I'm going to duck the bullets, if any.

(My best advice to everyone, however, would probably be to let the subject drop.)

p@,
Glenn

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Shm Jay wrote:You need to make it Sword-and-Sorcery. That's what the market wants.

Alas, this is quite true...

I like Sword & Sorcery just fine, but these days I'm happy to find something just a bit different.

(I think I've mentioned my liking for Guy Gavriel Kay's Sarantine Mosaic books; while these have their touches of both swords and sorcery, they manage to avoid many of the stereotypes. I found it particularly gratifying that while the main character, a mosaic artist, takes a sword with him at one point for self-defense, in the course of two novels he never uses it once--which is good, since he doesn't know how.

)

Actually, Mark's first Verdurian novel, starring Abend Monteneon (and mentioned in the "Secret History of Verduria"), sounds as though it was rather swords-and-sorcerous; Babblers, less so.

p@,
Glenn

Shm Jay · Post by **Shm Jay** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:53 pm

Glenn Kempf wrote:The only genre of "perfect" worlds I've ever heard of are the "socialist realism" novels of the early Soviet period in the USSR, in which all criticism of the burgeoning Soviet state was banned--and these are certainly not held up as great literary works today.

I have read How the steel was tempered and Time, forward!, in English alas. I once tried to read The Zhurbins but it made me physically nauseous, which only Michael Jackson's album "Bad" had ever done.

Shm Jay · Post by **Shm Jay** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:26 am

Glenn Kempf wrote: Before the replies start flowing in...

By now I feel like waving my hands in magical motions and causing the Valley of the Shk?noro to buzz with a mysterious new freedom fighter who preaches the doctrine of

BUADCLINILES

which, if it doesn?t liberate Sarroc, will certainly drive the Dhekhnami crazy.

Since it is a philosophy, its name is in Cadhinor whence all wisdom comes, and its name is elliptical for the phrase "adveiteiom buadcliniles", or, in more straightforward language, "Curesai ac adveiteiom buadclinao" or, in Verdurian, "Cuesai ac rho acinao advechel".

Post by **zompist** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:43 am

Shm Jay wrote:"Cuesai ac rho acinao advechel".

Ironically, though it's good for the peace of mind to have advechel?, it's better for literature to have cues?. Very few books can survive certainty. (Except perhaps those for children.)

Glenn, you're quite right about the earlier mentions (indeed, AD 4901 is one of the two novels mentioned in that thread). Heck, as long as I'm divulging secrets, I'd might as well give the name of the other one: The Fire Shall Try. It's set in this century and it's medium embarrassing.

Delthayre · Post by **Delthayre** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:14 am

I must admit, Zomp, I'd rather like to see something of yours published. I rather like what you've offered so far and I really enjoy things set in a well-realized world, which if you don't mind, I must say I find Almea to be.

I haven't read any fantasy in years, in part as I've lost interest in the stuff being offered today, not much good and I'm not up to weeding through for the good stuff.

Besides, I could tell people I kinda, sorta, indirectly, half-know the author on an impersonal level.

Don't worry, I think I'm tricky enough with English to make that sound impressive to the laiety.

So Haleza Grise · Post by **So Haleza Grise** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:37 am

Eddy the Great wrote:Would the Verdurians' sexism be a turn off for the average reader?

Have you read anything on VV at all?

Glenn is of course right (as he is about the entirety of the post), I should drop it, but, like your muddled attempt at "fanfic", all you do is wave a big flag displaying your ignorance. In addition to being extremely rude (nobody goes around here making misstatements about your conworld, for example), your take on Almea makes me wonder if you have to belittle others' works in order to feel better about your own.

For the record, zomp explicity addresses gender attitudes in various Almean cultures in a number of various places, and it is a vast over-simplification to label them all simply "sexist" (pointless as that is, anyway, given that we're not dealing with a modern terrestrial society). In fact, as Glenn has mentioned, attitudes in Almea towards women at different places and times are frequently better than at roughly equivalent places and times on Earth. And there are explicitly sexist societies on Almea too, such as the Barakhinei; such difference, diversion and subtlety adds much to the creative complexity and subtleties of Almea, and seems to be something that you have comprehnensively missed.

Readers will happily read about all sorts of cultures engaging in practices that we may perceive as being repulsively brutal; I certainly can't imagine anything in Almea that would turn any modern (broad-minded) reader off.

Oh, and on topic: I'd happily pay to read more about Almea (and I reckon the LCK could potentially be quite a good seller. . .)

Delthayre · Post by **Delthayre** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:42 am

So Haleza Grise wrote:Oh, and on topic: I'd happily pay to read more about Almea (and I reckon the LCK could potentially be quite a good seller. . .)

I'd love having a book version of the LCK (perhaps expanded...eh...eh). I'm not keen on reading things on the computer screen and just printing documents lacks class.

Xephyr · Post by **Xephyr** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:48 am

Speaking of which, and risking changing the subject (On second thought, the topic subject has already expired), what of the rumors a while back about a polylang construction kit? Was Zomp ever even considering making it, or was it just wishful thinking?

Drydic · Post by **Drydic** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:30 am

Eddy: no.

Rory · Post by **Rory** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:26 am

Zomp, have you only tried US publishers? As you could try sending some copies across the pond to the UK publishers, see if they're any more forgiving (although I honestly have no idea on the likes and dislikes of publishers in either country). Also, it mean us UK Almea fans could get the books first

Shm Jay · Post by **Shm Jay** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:56 am

There are also English-language publishers in Paris, but I think then you would be put in with the literary rather than the popular.

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:47 am

Cevlakohn wrote:Speaking of which, and risking changing the subject (On second thought, the topic subject has already expired), what of the rumors a while back about a polylang construction kit? Was Zomp ever even considering making it, or was it just wishful thinking?

What I was really hoping for, was a World Construction Kit, covering how to make the planet, continents etc, its people, and their religons etc, and their history, etc, as well as anything else that came to mind. After that you could have an expanded, revised, wider-covering LCK, with Polylangs etc.

I think something like this has huge cult potential. Think of all the linguists, D&Ds fans, and general oddballs. The success of the LotR movies has really drawn attention to Arda and Fantasy in general. I'm sure many of these people would love to invent their own conworld, it just hasn't occured to them before.

One problem with this, though, is publicity. It can really be a bad thing sometimes. If you do this LCK-deluxe, and it proves popular, ZBBs population will explode beyond reckoning. We're talking thousands here. Moderators will be required because with the droves of fans come the spammers, the place will become less personal and user-friendly. Much as I would like to see conworld/langing more widely spread, their is a formidable risk too, and it shouldn't be ignored.

Ghost

Soap · Post by **Soap** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:34 pm

I think the Polylang thread is a decent start at a Polylang construction kit. Asking other people who've worked with polysynthetic conlangs is good too. But I agree, it would be nice to have a small document explaining what polysynthesis is and how many different ways there are to make it work in a language.

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