but in (say) /aj/, it's already a consonant /j/. Something with sense would be that, for example, ew it's /e u/FROM PROTO-EASTERN PHILOLOGY: aw /aw/, ay /aj/, ey /ej/, and oy /oj/ are the only true diphthongs. Where w and y occur with other vowels they are consonantal
Questions or discussions about Almea or Verduria-- also the Incatena. Also good for postings in Almean languages.
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/w/ and /y/ are called semivowels because sometimes they act like vowels, and sometimes like consonants; it varies with the language, and sometimes, with their environments.Ancenande wrote:but then, what would be a consonantal /j/?
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Well, as Mr. Burke explained, /j/ (or /y/ in some transcription systems) can behave like a vowel or a consonant, it and /w/ are sort of in between the two categories.Ancenande wrote:so?
I suppose in words like <yet> /jEt/ one could contrue it as a consonant, but the examples you listed from Verdurian have /j/ in its more vowel-like role as a part of a diphthong. Most dialects of English have this as well, but the distinction is not phonemic. For example, English <cane> is phonetically (for me, at least) [kej~n] with [j] functioning as a part of the syllable nucleüs with /e/.
But to be honest, "so?" doesn't really suggest much as to what your question is or how you were dissatisfied with Mr. Burke's explanation.
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Sort of. [j] is a consonant, but, being an approximant/semivowel/glide (whichever term you use), it is extremely close to the line dividing vowels and consonants. [j] is a consonant, and for years there actually wasn't a seperate symbol for [j\], it being thought that there wasn't any major difference between them. It now seems that there is, but it still isn't very common.Ancenande wrote:so a "vocalic" /j/ would be more like /i/ and a "consonantal" one would be more like /j\/?
The main point is that diphthongs can tend to develop differently than the sounds that compose them; while the other sequences (such as [eu]) can develop of their own accord, what Mark is saying is that the diphthongs have reflexes that are distinct from those of their seperate parts (with, say, *ay > e, *ai > ai as an example).
This is the main problem, I think: sounds don't necessarily change and/or work the same in different languages. Certain sounds tend to have similar changes, but there really aren't any hard and fast rules. /j/ can act both as the second member of a diphthong (thus making it more vocalic) and as a simple consonant [j] (thus being more consonantal), and they're still the same sound.
Phonology's weird like that.
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