Historical Atlas of Arcél

Post by **zompist** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:17 am

I don't think much motivation is needed besides greed. A rich agricultural state is a constant temptation for nomads. If it's strong enough it can resist them, but vigilance sometimes wanes.

Phret (the tea plant) would grow elsewhere, but neither Verduria nor Kebri has a suitable habitat (they are too cool and dry). (Perhaps one of their colonies would be suitable. But you'd have to get your hands on the seeds, know how to cultivate them, be in the right non-home territory, and have land for cultivation, and it just hasn't come together for anyone yet.)

(The colonial powers have their own, superior silk, so the question doesn't come up for Bé silk.)

Neek · Post by **Neek** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:28 pm

I should say that perplexing meant it had no negative connotations. These things three were on my mind--but it seems whoever possesses the tea trade commands a massive amount of wealth until some entrepreneur figures this out, which'll cause the monopoly to come crashing to its knees.

Mornche Geddick · Post by **Mornche Geddick** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:32 am

2550 is up. Yay!

dhok · Post by **dhok** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:21 am

Huh, this is interesting.
Belesao is learning how to make steel-hell, considering what's going on with the Gelyet at the time, they may well be the most advanced state on the planet.
The Uytainese don't seem to have had that much of an aversion to the Nyuam; indeed, they seemed to think of them as Uytainese, judging from the case of the magician.
And now the Gleŋ have expanded ludicrously.
This will be interesting.

Dewrad · Post by **Dewrad** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:58 pm

The Bad Pun Police hereby hand you a caution for "Monarchs of the Gleŋ".

hwhatting · Post by **hwhatting** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:34 am

dhokarena56 wrote: The Uytainese don't seem to have had that much of an aversion to the Nyuam; indeed, they seemed to think of them as Uytainese, judging from the case of the magician.

That's not the impression I got - more like "better the devil you know".

- · Post by - » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:04 pm

(Redefining the word "hiatus" to indulge a question about Arcél's nomads.)

I'm intrigued by the commanding range the nomads -- first Nyuam and now their successors -- appear to have. They seem to be afoot rather than mounted... so why do they have the edge in conflict they seem to have developed, and why are they so reliant on archery? (I'm also not clear on how coordinated their various "invasions" are -- if it's more Volkerwanderung-style movements of tribes or conquests by tribal confederacies in the Mongol or Turkic style...)

Post by **zompist** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:57 pm

The Arcelian nomads had no horses. This is a great disadvantage compared with those of Erelae (or Asia), and as a result they were not as successful... but they did have their moment of glory.

Why did they have an edge? Well, I'm assuming that even without horses they have the advantages of nomads: greater mobility and the ability to mobilize nearly the whole population as an army. Peasants make poor armies in general; they're tied to the land and their skillset isn't that of soldiers.

I also looked at e.g. the early Semites, who displaced the Sumerians and created the first empires, before horse warfare was very far advanced (key inventions such as the war chariot and the stirrup came later).

The Arcelian nomads were certainly organized by the time they were taking over agricultural settlements.

Finally, note that the Nyuam conquered Uytai with Uytainese help-- that is, once they had a few cities they also had infantry and siege technology.

Post by **zompist** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:05 pm

As for the Uytainese attitude toward the Nyuam-- the latter were fairly adept at taking over the top spot in Uytainese society without unduly aggravating the levels below. By the time of Hensaut they were simply the people in charge, not really worse than the Uytainese emperors.

The Gleŋ were a different story-- they were much more apt to confiscate wealth, and they did much damage to Uytainese institutions.

(On a meta level, I'd recommend F.W. Mote's book on Imperial China for anyone with strong nomads. Each of the groups that conquered part or all of China had their own methods, strengths, and weaknesses.)

dhok · Post by **dhok** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:13 pm

Interesting.
Uytai is, for the first time in several centuries, independant, and it now has a market economy and an oligarchial government. But it's still quite small...I wonder what will happen next.
Both the Beic and Uyram peoples are starting colonies, and the nomads are definitely on the defensive. And Fananak is only 3 centuries away.

I see that the land to the west of Uytai has been quite stable. Aside from Uytainese refugees, it's basically been the same: Kleʔmet' has been a state for a thousand years, and so has Fkišnak; Witsiʔpopok isn't much younger. And nothing's been happening in Togwaš. What's up with that?

Iscun · Post by **Iscun** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:19 pm

The map of 1300 describes the government of the Itsenic confederacies. Kleʔmet is said to have started its own confederation of tribes. I'm guessing the style of government, or anything else hasn't changed that much in that area except for the refugees coming in. From the looks of it, they just don't seem to be all that interested in.. well.. land. I'm curious about the cities of that river valley, and their religion/culture.

Post by **zompist** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:25 pm

The best introduction is the story of Bečagbi:

http://www.almeopedia.com/index.php/Be%C4%8Dagbi

The areas of the west are at about the technological and social level of the Iroquois. They're only as organized as they need to be to discourage Uytainese settlement.

hwhatting · Post by **hwhatting** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:14 am

Some of the portraits you do would make interesting novels - the Bruhre portrait reminded me of a novel taking place at the Chinese Imperial court I once read (about the rise to power of Empress Ci Xi).

dhok · Post by **dhok** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:55 am

Hmm, very interesting. We're entering the modern era!

A question, though: if Fananak caused plague because of cross-continental disease, why didn't that happen when the Skourenes and Bé crossed the ocean earlier?

Gremlins · Post by **Gremlins** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:02 pm

dhokarena56 wrote:Hmm, very interesting. We're entering the modern era!

A question, though: if Fananak caused plague because of cross-continental disease, why didn't that happen when the Skourenes and Bé crossed the ocean earlier?

Because it generally takes a certain amount of sustained contact for diseases to spread. A few Skourene sailors doing a stopover in Uytai are far less likely to catch a disease than hundreds of colonists in regular contact with thousands of natives. Also the conditions in the colonies would help the spread of disease - people are going to be huddled together and malnourished.

Kalan · Post by **Kalan** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:57 pm

dhokarena56 wrote: A question, though: if Fananak caused plague because of cross-continental disease, why didn't that happen when the Skourenes and Bé crossed the ocean earlier?

I can think of two reasons: 1. Such severe diseases usually occure as an epidemic. If there are only traders they won't run into an outbreak.

2. The travel over the ocean works like a filter: If a crew member becomes infected the disease will likely kill the whole crew and never reach the homeland. But with increasing contact and better (and thus faster) sailing technology the plagues can travel more easily.

Post by **zompist** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:26 pm

Breadth of contact is one factor; another is that the pox wasn't found in ancient Skouras; it spread through Ereláe in the Dark Years.

Mornche Geddick · Post by **Mornche Geddick** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:41 am

A Christmas present from Zompist.

brandrinn · Post by **brandrinn** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:32 am

On a less-than-serious note, does Zomp hate the Uytainese?

It seems like every time I turn around they're doing something stupid.

Atom · Post by **Atom** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:13 pm

Mornche Geddick wrote:A Christmas present from Zompist.

just what I wanted! Well, that and a description of Le or Uyseʔ.

brandrinn wrote:On a less-than-serious note, does Zomp hate the Uytainese? It seems like every time I turn around they're doing something stupid.

Well, it would be rather boring if the most powerful nation in Arcel was intelligent wouldn't it?

Oh, and apparently according the bio, Uytai is about to get conquered. Again, although this time by the Okram.

Mornche Geddick · Post by **Mornche Geddick** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:35 am

One thing just struck me : William Bradford has appeared in Fananak as the Tzuro governor.

Post by **zompist** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:02 pm

Good news and bad news... not that bad really.

The good news: I finished the last Characteristic Figure, for 3480. So the last few maps should be up soon. This will be a relief since I'll finally have a thumbnail map and the mess of red links can be attacked.

The bad news... not that bad really: not this week, since Lore is changing servers.

Atom · Post by **Atom** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:17 pm

Is there not going to be a city/literacy map?

Adso de Fimnu · Post by **Adso de Fimnu** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:19 am

I, for one, appreciate the republicans--er, ħwentai--in Uytai.

But it does seem like the nation is exceptionally prone to bad ideas...

Post by **zompist** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:13 am

There's a city layer in the Flash file... I'll probably add a city map though, for easy reference.