Sai'isi
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- Sanci
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- Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:04 am
- Location: Corcaigh Mor Mumhain
Sai'isi
In the historical atlas I found loads of governments fascinating, specifically that of Saisi. Where did you get those ideas from?
That particular one is invented, but it fits in with the uneasy transition from egalitarian hunter/gatherer bands, to Big Man redistribution systems, to full states. Some good introductions to these subjects are Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel and Marvin Harris's Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches.
Eddy should read it
I really liked Guns, Germs, & Steel, it certainly helped make sense of a lot of things. I thought Diamond's writing was a little prosaic, but the content outweighed that trivial complaint.
Come to think of it, my dad would probably really like the book.
It's certainly forced me to reconsider my conworld, which is getting a complete renovation anyway.
Come to think of it, my dad would probably really like the book.
It's certainly forced me to reconsider my conworld, which is getting a complete renovation anyway.
"Great men are almost always bad men."
~Lord John Dalberg Acton
~Lord John Dalberg Acton
Re: Eddy should read it
Prosaic! How can you call anyone's writing prosaic when they are the writer of the phrase "Rhino-mounted Bantu shock troops"? That phrase will live with me forever.Delthayre wrote:I thought Diamond's writing was a little prosaic, but the content outweighed that trivial complaint.
Someday I'll write up the sakorin's sedmyar cavalry, inspired by that line.
Can't remember exactly, and I'm not at home to check, but it's in the chapter on what kinds of animals are domesticable.con quesa wrote:That's in Guns Germs and Steel!?"Rhino-mounted Bantu shock troops"
What page?
The larger context is something along the lines of:
"If African rhinos and hippos, had they been domesticable would not only have fed armies, they could have provided an unstoppable cavalry to carve through the ranks of European horsemen. Rhino-mounted Bantu shock troops could have overthrown the Roman Empire. Alas, it never happened."
Something like that, anyway.
- So Haleza Grise
- Avisaru
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Re: Eddy should read it
Okay. But they have to overthrow an empire.Aidan wrote:Prosaic! How can you call anyone's writing prosaic when they are the writer of the phrase "Rhino-mounted Bantu shock troops"? That phrase will live with me forever.Delthayre wrote:I thought Diamond's writing was a little prosaic, but the content outweighed that trivial complaint.
Someday I'll write up the sakorin's sedmyar cavalry, inspired by that line.
Page 399 (at least in my edition) is where it appears, in the chapter "How Africa Became Black"
"Had Africa's rhinos and hippos been domesticated and ridden, they would not only have fed armies but also have provided an unstoppable cavalry to cut through the ranks of European horsemen. Rhino-mounted Bantu shock troops could have overthrown the Roman Empire. It never happened".
I'm not an enormous fan of Diamond's writing style either; there's a difference between being accessible and being folksy. Not that I'd consider that a reason not to read the book.
Duxirti petivevoumu tinaya to tiei šuniš muruvax ulivatimi naya to šizeni.
Re: Eddy should read it
I don't know much sakorin history yet; I'll see what I can doSo Haleza Grise wrote:Okay. But they have to overthrow an empire.Aidan wrote:Prosaic! How can you call anyone's writing prosaic when they are the writer of the phrase "Rhino-mounted Bantu shock troops"? That phrase will live with me forever.Delthayre wrote:I thought Diamond's writing was a little prosaic, but the content outweighed that trivial complaint.
Someday I'll write up the sakorin's sedmyar cavalry, inspired by that line.
I expect they've probably overthrown an empire or two.
Aidan wrote:The larger context is something along the lines of:
"If African rhinos and hippos, had they been domesticable would not only have fed armies, they could have provided an unstoppable cavalry to carve through the ranks of European horsemen. Rhino-mounted Bantu shock troops could have overthrown the Roman Empire. Alas, it never happened."
Something like that, anyway.
Pretty good for a memory several years old, if I do say so myselfSo Haleza Grise wrote:"Had Africa's rhinos and hippos been domesticated and ridden, they would not only have fed armies but also have provided an unstoppable cavalry to cut through the ranks of European horsemen. Rhino-mounted Bantu shock troops could have overthrown the Roman Empire. It never happened"..
- Salmoneus
- Sanno
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Why aren't rhinos domesticateable? Or if they are, why didn't rhino-mounted bantu shock troops overthrow the roman empire?
Though having said that, why exactly would have rhinos overthrown the Empire? After all, elephants tried and failed. Why would rhinos have been better?
Though having said that, why exactly would have rhinos overthrown the Empire? After all, elephants tried and failed. Why would rhinos have been better?
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
Elephants weren't really domesticable either, they were merely tameable. It's a valid question, though. I'm not sure I can answer it my satisfaction. All I can say at the moment is, since they are only tameable (not bred in captivity, not selected on), that made them more expensive to obtain and use than if they had been domesticable, and so, limited in their deployability.Salmoneus wrote:Why aren't rhinos domesticateable? Or if they are, why didn't rhino-mounted bantu shock troops overthrow the roman empire?
Though having said that, why exactly would have rhinos overthrown the Empire? After all, elephants tried and failed. Why would rhinos have been better?
As to why rhinos weren't domesticable, to grab from the other thread we're discussing GG&S right now:
Rhinos fail almost every criteria. They don't have a very social tight socail structure, they're highly territorial, they grow slowly, and they're nasty buggers.Glenn wrote:Diamond's explanation is as you suggest--the native animal species of the Americas, as a rule, were not suitable for domestication, being too difficult to tame, too hard to breed in capitivity, lacking an appropriate social structure (species with a hierarchical herd structure and overlapping territories are easiest to tame), and so forth; he covers the bases better than I can here, and I found his arguments convincing. The same applies to many other animal species around the world (helping explain why so few African herbivores were domesticated, for instance).
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- Sanci
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