Cadhinor Syntax, Flaidish Spelling, and "w"

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dhok
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Cadhinor Syntax, Flaidish Spelling, and "w"

Post by dhok »

I've looked over Shm Revouse's grammar of Cadhinor, and his syntax and usage explanations are notoriously lacking. My question is: how do you use the remote mood? I'm cautiously going to go ahead and suggest that Oikumene Cadhinorists use it as one would use the Latin subjunctive, since Cadhinor is very much like Latin, but I'm not sure.

Secondly, the Flaidish lexicon includes the word sigi, from the Ismaîn word of the same name. But a Flaidish word can only end with one of e u o au a y, and those are the only words with any spelling rules for the end of the word. How is sigi pronounced?

Third, the Xurnese grammar's transliteration, as you say, is the same as the Verdurian transliteration.
Zompist, in the Xurnese grammar, wrote: (j) is borrowed from Flaidish, and (w) from Ismaîn or Kebreni.
But neither Ismaîn nor Kebreni have /w/ or <w>...in fact, neither do any other languages of Eretald. What's up?

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Post by zompist »

Some bits from the non-native grammar may help...

The remote mood contains only two tenses, past and present. In main clauses, the present expresses future, potential, conditional, or questioned actions or states: scadremai ‘I will ride, I may ride, I would ride, does he ride?’; the past expresses doubt that an action occurred: scadrinet ‘He may have ridden, he is said to have ridden, he would have ridden, did he ride?’

The remote mood is used in dependent clauses governed by verbs of desire or belief:
Volu dia scadremet. I wish he would ride (away).
Buscrifeo dia scadrinet. I didn’t know that he rode (away).

A wish may also be expressed with the particle ut, followed by the remote mood:
Ut scadremet! Would that he would ride away!

Conditional expressions are expressed using a ablative participial construction. There is no word meaning ‘if’ in Ca∂inor. Instead, the verb in the condition is expressed as a participle, in the ablative, and agreeing in number and gender with the subject. The subject must be expressed, even if it’s a pronoun. The main clause is then placed in the remote mood. If the condition applies to the present or future, use the remote present; if it applies to the past, use the remote past.

Let cebrecoth, ctanemus.
If you build it (lit. you building), they will come.
Gios clithileth, aeludennoth elireces.
If the boy had prayed (lit. the boy praying), he would yet be alive.

If a relative clause is expressed with a remote tense, doubt is cast on the existence of the action or person described.
Teket urestu kaeth nurisant leivit?
Is there a man who was raised by wolves?

Causatives can be formed in two ways in Cadhinor. First, analytically, using the verb scesan. In classical Cadhinor the caused action was placed in a subordinate clause, in the remote mood.
Scokhos dia khmatul gorathoth selse scesevut.
governor that prisoner-NOM tower-ABL jump-REM-PAST cause-DYN-PAST
The governor made the prisoner jump from the tower.

The normal way to form a yes-no question is to place the main verb in the remote tense (accompanied by a rising intonation). (Barakhinei retains this method.)
Ursos im prucia imbrae. A bear walked into the inn.
Ursos im prucia imbrinet. Did a bear walk into the inn?

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Post by zompist »

As for sigi, that's decidedly un-flaidish in form... it should be sege instead.

The statement about w comes from a passage in the Verdurian grammar written long before either Kebreni or Ismaîn were worked out. It'll have to be revised, but in the meantime it's still true that w is used in Caizu.

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Post by dhok »

zompist wrote:Some bits from the non-native grammar may help...

The remote mood contains only two tenses, past and present. In main clauses, the present expresses future, potential, conditional, or questioned actions or states: scadremai ‘I will ride, I may ride, I would ride, does he ride?’; the past expresses doubt that an action occurred: scadrinet ‘He may have ridden, he is said to have ridden, he would have ridden, did he ride?’

The remote mood is used in dependent clauses governed by verbs of desire or belief:
Volu dia scadremet. I wish he would ride (away).
Buscrifeo dia scadrinet. I didn’t know that he rode (away).

A wish may also be expressed with the particle ut, followed by the remote mood:
Ut scadremet! Would that he would ride away!

Conditional expressions are expressed using a ablative participial construction. There is no word meaning ‘if’ in Ca∂inor. Instead, the verb in the condition is expressed as a participle, in the ablative, and agreeing in number and gender with the subject. The subject must be expressed, even if it’s a pronoun. The main clause is then placed in the remote mood. If the condition applies to the present or future, use the remote present; if it applies to the past, use the remote past.

Let cebrecoth, ctanemus.
If you build it (lit. you building), they will come.
Gios clithileth, aeludennoth elireces.
If the boy had prayed (lit. the boy praying), he would yet be alive.

If a relative clause is expressed with a remote tense, doubt is cast on the existence of the action or person described.
Teket urestu kaeth nurisant leivit?
Is there a man who was raised by wolves?

Causatives can be formed in two ways in Cadhinor. First, analytically, using the verb scesan. In classical Cadhinor the caused action was placed in a subordinate clause, in the remote mood.
Scokhos dia khmatul gorathoth selse scesevut.
governor that prisoner-NOM tower-ABL jump-REM-PAST cause-DYN-PAST
The governor made the prisoner jump from the tower.

The normal way to form a yes-no question is to place the main verb in the remote tense (accompanied by a rising intonation). (Barakhinei retains this method.)
Ursos im prucia imbrae. A bear walked into the inn.
Ursos im prucia imbrinet. Did a bear walk into the inn?
Where can I find said non-native grammar?

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Post by tezcatlip0ca »

You can't find the non-native grammar anywhere. It occurs only in Mark's mindset...

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Post by Dewrad »

Aid'os wrote:You can't find the non-native grammar anywhere. It occurs only in Mark's mindset...
It used to be available a long time ago as a .doc file downloadable from this page. I remember downloading and saving it, but that was about three computers and five operating systems ago. I know there's the native grammar on the website, but it would be nice to have a "tediously balanced and linguistically informed overview" as well.
Some useful Dravian links: Grammar - Lexicon - Ask a Dravian
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)

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Post by tezcatlip0ca »

So there is a Cad'inor non native grammar? Try to look in the Wayback Machine for it...

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