Eteodãole

Questions or discussions about Almea or Verduria-- also the Incatena. Also good for postings in Almean languages.
Post Reply
tezcatlip0ca
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:30 pm

Eteodãole

Post by tezcatlip0ca »

What are its most distinctive traits?

User avatar
Arzena
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:19 pm
Location: ¡California, Tejas, Marruecos!

Post by Arzena »

Our Boardlord needs to grow another brain in order to answer that :)
A New Yorker wrote:Isn't it sort of a relief to talk about the English Premier League instead of the sad state of publishing?
Abi wrote:At this point it seems pretty apparent that PIE was simply an ancient esperanto gone awry.
Shtåså, Empotle7á, Neire Wippwo

User avatar
the duke of nuke
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:23 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Post by the duke of nuke »

As far as can be discerned, its main distinguishing feature is that it's beyond the comprehension of lesser beings. So yeah.
XinuX wrote:I learned this language, but then I sneezed and now am in prison for high treason. 0/10 would not speak again.

zompist
Boardlord
Boardlord
Posts: 3368
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Location: In the den
Contact:

Post by zompist »

I used to answer questions like this with "Ask me again in 10 years." However, some of those promissory notes are coming dangerously close to due.

As a treat, the print LCK contains an annotated sample of Eteodäole.

But other than that, you'll have to wait till I get around to translating the Avélan scholars' treatment of the language.

User avatar
Yiuel Raumbesrairc
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 668
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:17 pm
Location: Nyeriborma, Elme, Melomers

Post by Yiuel Raumbesrairc »

Is it me or your description in the LCK implies their use of "mentalemes", using their vision-sharing to convey semantic/morphosyntactic meaning? That's what I understood of it, and it sounds very plausible.
"Ez amnar o amnar e cauč."
- Daneydzaus

zompist
Boardlord
Boardlord
Posts: 3368
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Location: In the den
Contact:

Post by zompist »

Yeah, pretty much. There's not much call to say "I saw a huge shark with a chunk out of his dorsal fin" if you can directly produce a mental image.

User avatar
Yiuel Raumbesrairc
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 668
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:17 pm
Location: Nyeriborma, Elme, Melomers

Post by Yiuel Raumbesrairc »

zompist wrote:Yeah, pretty much. There's not much call to say "I saw a huge shark with a chunk out of his dorsal fin" if you can directly produce a mental image.
Can they tweak their mental images, that is, if they have the vivid memory of some event, can they project it with some tweaks to include additional information? The idea that they can tell stories that way seems to make it plausible. And if so, the idea of a "mentaleme" makes even more sense.

Also, about the mental image, is it strictly visual or does it involve other senses (to the point that they could convey pain, for instance)? As you said through Beretos's experience, it would be indistinguishable from reality, so I suppose that there is at least more than "visual cues" used.

(I could also understand why their language, even if using their mental image capacity, could still include vocal components. After all, with all the writing that WE use, I haven't seen anyone physically healthy use only text messages to communicate with other people. Also, we don't all convey meaning through tones, as well, for a closer example.)

Finally, is there only one ilian language? If yes, are there dialects, or other social or regional differences?
"Ez amnar o amnar e cauč."
- Daneydzaus

rotting bones
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm

Post by rotting bones »

Is it easier or harder than Ithkuil?
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates

User avatar
Yiuel Raumbesrairc
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 668
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:17 pm
Location: Nyeriborma, Elme, Melomers

Post by Yiuel Raumbesrairc »

rotting ham wrote:Is it easier or harder than Ithkuil?
At least, I know I'd never be able to speak it. With all the image-projecting stuff.
"Ez amnar o amnar e cauč."
- Daneydzaus

rotting bones
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm

Post by rotting bones »

Yiuel wrote:At least, I know I'd never be able to speak it. With all the image-projecting stuff.
Would telepathic humans be able to speak it?
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates

zompist
Boardlord
Boardlord
Posts: 3368
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Location: In the den
Contact:

Post by zompist »

The iliu can tell a story with their power— Beretos's vision felt like primary reality (he didn't feel like he was seeing a hologram or a daydream or an image), but its contents were surreal. The one thing they can't convey is your own reaction— i.e. they could conjure up a monster but they can't make you afraid. (You might be afraid of the monster, but it's your reaction, not theirs.)

They can use language to convey sense data too, just as they can draw pictures... it's just not the primary use or purpose of the language.

There are many varieties, down to the individual level; since iliu travel a lot and live for centuries, they're exposed to many of these. Rather than producing a set of phonemes, speaking Eteodäole is something like performing jazz. How you play with the medium is as important as what you say.

As for telepathic humans, it depends on how you define the telepathy.

rotting bones
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm

Post by rotting bones »

zompist wrote:As for telepathic humans, it depends on how you define the telepathy.
Look, suppose we had whatever organs or magic the iliu use to convey mentalemes. Would our memory and intellect measure up to the challenge of tackling the rest of Eteodãole grammar in real time, or would we have to spend a decade or two secluded in a hermitage with a copy of Eteodãole for Dummies rendered in hymns? I presume that's what it'd take to get a human being to speak Ilaksh, only the poor guy would probably lose the ability to speak any other language afterwards. Would even that be enough for Eteodãole?

This a fairly straightforward question, isn't it?
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates

rotting bones
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm

Post by rotting bones »

I mean, ignoring technical challenges like simultaneous visualization and articulation, etc, how inhuman is the underlying idealism? How complex is the morphology? How long does it take human experts to frame simple Eteodaole sentences in it's written incarnation?
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates

rotting bones
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm

Post by rotting bones »

Relieved to see Eteodaole is still as impenetrable as ever: http://www.almeopedia.com/index.php/Eteod%C3%A4ole

I would've ordered the LCK, but I can't afford airmail. The only time I ordered something from Amazon, it took them over 3 months to complete the delivery. (2 months overdue) I'm waiting for the downloadable PDF.
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates

Pedant
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am

Re: Eteodãole

Post by Pedant »

Here's another question: from my own reading of the LCK, there don't seem to be that many vowel sounds in Eteodāole, which given the medium makes sense; the iliu appear to rely on changes in length and pitch, something that carries further in water (yes, I am copying wholesale, sorry). What I wonder, then, is what language the word Eteodāole comes from, presumably as the best possible form of transcription the folks had. From the look of it, I'd say Cuêzi, but I could be wrong.

User avatar
So Haleza Grise
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 11:17 pm

Re: Eteodãole

Post by So Haleza Grise »

We don't have an origin for Eteodäole: it's not Cuezi. It's been said to be a human approximation of Ilian sounds but we don't have enough information to say.

(I think this info was in the original Almeopedia article but lost during the Great Crash).

As for vowel quantities, I wouldn't say it's likely that the language has any lack of them; it seems to be quite vocalic. There's a suggestion that it doesn't have phonemic inventories in the same way a human language would though.
Duxirti petivevoumu tinaya to tiei šuniš muruvax ulivatimi naya to šizeni.

zompist
Boardlord
Boardlord
Posts: 3368
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Location: In the den
Contact:

Re: Eteodãole

Post by zompist »

To be precise, the form of the word is Cuêzi, but it's not analyzable. There are a number of such terms. The ancient explanation is that they were remembered from the previous era of civilization, but this is unlikely.

User avatar
WeepingElf
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1630
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:00 pm
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Eteodãole

Post by WeepingElf »

Apparently, Almea's equivalent of Pelasgian.
...brought to you by the Weeping Elf
Tha cvastam émi cvastam santham amal phelsa. -- Friedrich Schiller
ESTAR-3SG:P human-OBJ only human-OBJ true-OBJ REL-LOC play-3SG:A

Pedant
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am

Re: Eteodãole

Post by Pedant »

First off, Čeykirc, I do know it's not a Cuzeian word. I just can't recall the word for "word that is as close an approximation of another word as possible in the first language".
Hmm. Personally, I'm not sure...I mean, Zompist did posit suggestions that the Count of Years was at least partially accurate in telling a coherent account of Almea's past, but not for names of languages. (I'm fairly certain the name Eteodāole wasn't mentioned in CoY, but I'd have to check.) More to the point, I'd still say it's an approximation of iliu sounds for a human tongue, but we'd need another language whose speakers actually had some real contact with them, like the Qaraus, before it can be decided.

cntrational
Sanci
Sanci
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:14 pm

Re: Eteodãole

Post by cntrational »

zompist wrote:To be precise, the form of the word is Cuêzi, but it's not analyzable. There are a number of such terms. The ancient explanation is that they were remembered from the previous era of civilization, but this is unlikely.
...and in the Doylist explanation, it's a retained word from proto-Almea where Ilian was much more mundane and "Elvish"-like.

Pedant
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am

Re: Eteodãole

Post by Pedant »

Ah. Are there any other remnants of this elvish Eteodäole elsewhere?

Post Reply