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zompist bboard • View topic - On A Genetic Connection Between Skourene and Wedei

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:15 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:07 pm 
Avisaru
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Interesting, and plausible! But the morphology is going to be hell to reconstruct.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:54 pm 
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Last edited by Whimemsz on Tue May 29, 2012 12:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:56 pm 
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By the way Zompist I better get, like, mad extra bonus points for this.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:19 pm 
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Yes, you've got it, congrats. I'm happy the mystery has lasted for five years, though now I guess I'll have to make something more subtle yet...

There's actually about 150 cognates; a large fraction have semantic changes as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:40 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:40 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:50 pm 
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It has a name, but as a bit of recognition for Whim, if he can suggest a reasonable name I'll use that.

(I'm not sure about putting it on Almeopedia; I kind of like having some things less obvious.)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:49 pm 
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Impressive work Whimemsz, congratulations!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:21 am 
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That's some hard work there. Way to go, Whims!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:44 am 
Avisaru
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There should be a special ZBB Award for unlocking Almean mysteries.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:20 am 
Avisaru
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Yay! Congratulations!

Now I have no excuse but to start reconstructing Proto-Western...

:?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:53 am 
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I shall try to figure out some morphology tonight. However, the typology of the two is so fricking different, it'll take a while.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:47 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:36 pm 
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Bomotian, however, isn't too bad, or Bomotic. Yonunelnic?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:46 pm 
Sanci
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Yokḍogian isn't that bad.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:50 pm 
Sanci
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No, it's pretty terrible, actually.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:07 pm 
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"Bomotic" isn't half bad. It looks a lot like Omotic, though. And Omotian sounds a bit sillier to me.


-----------------------------------------------

A few more likely or possible cognate sets:

(35) "south" = OS ţar / Wd saŋ
(36) ?"north" = OS ḍan / Wd lun
(37) "east" = OS kom / Wd ju
(38) "west" = OS boḍ / Wd wor
(39) "brother" = OS ḍed- / Wd roda
(40) "sister" = OS meld- / Wd beda
(41) "hemp" = OS naşgu / Wd naka
(42) "rule/inherit" = OS baţş- / Wd paźiwa "king"
(43) "branch/arm" = OS daļg- / Wd te:
(44) "deer" = OS mulg- / Wd buka
(45) "beard" = OS ŋarḍ / Wd ge:ŋ
(46) ??"inside" = OS ḍadŋ- / Wd ra
(47) ?"cat" = OS kuļiŋ "mountain lion" / Wd jo:na
(48) "here/this" = OS luļ / Wd lil
(49) "before" = OS mur- / Wd bu
(50) "upward/above" = OS dem- / Wd śen
(51) "below/under" = OS men- / Wd ben
(52) "middle" = OS saln- / Wd sai

A number of these display the same correspondences as I laid out in my earlier posts. For instance, the ubiquitous OS vd.stop : Wd vls.stop, in sets 41, 42, 43, 44, and possibly ?50 (if Wd ś reflects palatalization of an earlier *t). OS ţ : Wd s is illustrated in 35. The OS m- : Wd b- correspondence I mentioned in my last post as a possible one seems to be exemplified in these sets several times: see 40, 44, 49, and 51. The Wd correspondences to OS ḍ seem even more complex now. There are no examples here of OS ḍ- : Wd y-, but there are several cases where initial OS ḍ- corresponds to Wd r- (the same correspondence I took to be regular when word-medial and possibly -final; see also set 38): sets 39 and ??46; possibly set ?36 is to be included here as well, with Wd l a later development? (this would then perhaps be parallel to set ??15) It also looks like there is a regular (though odd) correspondence of OS rḍ and Wd ŋ, exemplified here by set 45, but in my previous post as well, in sets ?18 and ?20 [the question marks can probably be removed: these look like pretty secure cognates to me now].

I'll also add that it now looks like the numeral "three" is probably cognate between the two families as well. There are a number of sets in which OS d or t correspond to Wd ś or ź before a front vowel: 3, ?22, 29, and 50.


EDIT: I added two more cognate sets. Also I'll point out that the marker for Y/N questions in OS, -si may be related to either the Wd marker for negatives -ze or the Wd marker for Y/N questions, -źu. The OS prefix ŋok- "finish" may be related to the Wd suffix -ok "past tense", as well?


Last edited by Whimemsz on Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:09 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:43 pm 
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(53) "each/every" = OS -doļ / Wd to:l (not sure how I missed this one...)

Okay, a few more possible connections between morphological affixes (see the edits to my previous post for a few others).

OS me- "pretense/doubt" is possibly connected to Wd -mi "reportative"
OS ru- "quickly/urgently" can probably be connected to Wd -ro "imperative"
OS ge- "case reset" is maaaaybe connected with Wd -ka "connective"?
OS nen- "comparative" may be connected to Wd -ne "contrastive"


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:53 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:01 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:32 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:48 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:55 am 
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