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The Almean Everest. Is it anywhere that Verdurians would know about? If not, what is the absolute highest mountain that a verdurian could persumably have access to.

While on the subject of mountains, Almean humans are obviously not as physiologically capable of climbing mountains as Earth humans are. We have a hard time reaching Everest without supplemental oxygen, but it can be done if you're in damn good shape. Are there mountains on Almea such that climbing them (for a human) really is physically impossible? How 'bout for an Elkar?

I s'pect it'd be in the Diqun Bormai, unless there's an even larger range above the Zone we don't know about it.

We haven't had teams of surveyors out yet, but it's probably either in the Diqun Bormai, or in the mountains along the southern coast of Curym.

The majesty and difficulty of some of the highest mountains is perhaps impeded by the elcarin habit of building walkways, steam-powered elevators, and restaurants near the summit.

zompist wrote:We haven't had teams of surveyors out yet, but it's probably either in the Diqun Bormai, or in the mountains along the southern coast of Curym.

The majesty and difficulty of some of the highest mountains is perhaps impeded by the elcarin habit of building walkways, steam-powered elevators, and restaurants near the summit.

A restaurant on top of the Everest? Then we'll hear about restaurants at the bottom of the sea (Which is a logical consequence of the Ilii)

con quesa wrote:The Almean Everest. Is it anywhere that Verdurians would know about? If not, what is the absolute highest mountain that a verdurian could persumably have access to.

While on the subject of mountains, Almean humans are obviously not as physiologically capable of climbing mountains as Earth humans are. We have a hard time reaching Everest without supplemental oxygen, but it can be done if you're in damn good shape. Are there mountains on Almea such that climbing them (for a human) really is physically impossible?

Quite possibly, depending on the details, it might not even be possible for an Earth human. Almea is quite a bit smaller than Earth, to the point that, if it were much smaller, it might not be able to retain a breathable atmosphere over geological timescales. As such, it's likely, though not certain, that the atmospheric pressure at sea level would be less than on Earth. (Zompist, however, has not specified an atmospheric pressure). I could see Almean mountains being quite inhospitable even without the particulars of Almean biology coming into play.

linguofreak wrote:Quite possibly, depending on the details, it might not even be possible for an Earth human. Almea is quite a bit smaller than Earth, to the point that, if it were much smaller, it might not be able to retain a breathable atmosphere over geological timescales. As such, it's likely, though not certain, that the atmospheric pressure at sea level would be less than on Earth. (Zompist, however, has not specified an atmospheric pressure). I could see Almean mountains being quite inhospitable even without the particulars of Almean biology coming into play.

En Elcar supposedly can dine up the highest mountains. They seem to be able to go there through normal non-pressurized paths. This means that the tallest mountains must be lower compared to the maximum height of breathable atmosphere for a humanoïd species needing oxygen.

Yiuel Raumbesrairc wrote:

linguofreak wrote:Quite possibly, depending on the details, it might not even be possible for an Earth human. Almea is quite a bit smaller than Earth, to the point that, if it were much smaller, it might not be able to retain a breathable atmosphere over geological timescales. As such, it's likely, though not certain, that the atmospheric pressure at sea level would be less than on Earth. (Zompist, however, has not specified an atmospheric pressure). I could see Almean mountains being quite inhospitable even without the particulars of Almean biology coming into play.

En Elcar supposedly can dine up the highest mountains. They seem to be able to go there through normal non-pressurized paths. This means that the tallest mountains must be lower compared to the maximum height of breathable atmosphere for a humanoïd species needing oxygen.

Or Almea has a thicker breathable atmosphere at higher elevations, and Almean mountains can be comparable to Earth mountains. (maybe they don't have a Himalayan type range, but something comparable to the Rockies, or the Cascades at least something like Mount Rainier at 14410 ft., or the Andes)

Yiuel Raumbesrairc wrote:

linguofreak wrote:Quite possibly, depending on the details, it might not even be possible for an Earth human. Almea is quite a bit smaller than Earth, to the point that, if it were much smaller, it might not be able to retain a breathable atmosphere over geological timescales. As such, it's likely, though not certain, that the atmospheric pressure at sea level would be less than on Earth. (Zompist, however, has not specified an atmospheric pressure). I could see Almean mountains being quite inhospitable even without the particulars of Almean biology coming into play.

En Elcar supposedly can dine up the highest mountains. They seem to be able to go there through normal non-pressurized paths. This means that the tallest mountains must be lower compared to the maximum height of breathable atmosphere for a humanoïd species needing oxygen.

Which doesn't mean that they're lower than the maximum breathing height for Earth humans. The Elcari certainly seem to be even more suited to high altitude than we are, and don't seem to have the dehydration problems that other Almean mammals do.

linguofreak wrote:Which doesn't mean that they're lower than the maximum breathing height for Earth humans. The Elcari certainly seem to be even more suited to high altitude than we are, and don't seem to have the dehydration problems that other Almean mammals do.

What lives in the heights of the Himalaya?

But I am not saying here that the mountains must be lower. Indeed, they can be higher. But the amount of oxygen available seems sufficient for large mammals, something the Himalaya, passed a certain height, does not allow.

linguofreak wrote:Almea is quite a bit smaller than Earth, to the point that, if it were much smaller, it might not be able to retain a breathable atmosphere over geological timescales. As such.

Do you have formulas or a source for this? Titan has a denser atmosphere than Earth with a radius of just 2600 km.

Yiuel Raumbesrairc wrote:

linguofreak wrote:Which doesn't mean that they're lower than the maximum breathing height for Earth humans. The Elcari certainly seem to be even more suited to high altitude than we are, and don't seem to have the dehydration problems that other Almean mammals do.

What lives in the heights of the Himalaya?

Yetis.

zompist wrote:

linguofreak wrote:Almea is quite a bit smaller than Earth, to the point that, if it were much smaller, it might not be able to retain a breathable atmosphere over geological timescales. As such.

Do you have formulas or a source for this? Titan has a denser atmosphere than Earth with a radius of just 2600 km.

Titan is colder. A big factor in atmospheric escape is Jeans escape, which depends on temperature: For a given temperature molecular velocities form a bell curve, and the higher the temperature, the more of the high-end tail of that bell curve ends up over escape velocity. In the lower atmosphere these molecules generally hit other molecules and slow down before they escape, but in the upper atmosphere they end up leaving the planet.

This also determines what constituents make up a planetary atmosphere: Gases with lighter molecular weights have faster average molecular velocities for a given temperature, and are correspondingly more likely to escape. The gas giants, being cold and having huge escape velocities, are able to hold onto hydrogen, whereas Earth has none that is not chemically bound. (The next question, of course, is why Venus, being hotter and having a lower escape velocity than Earth, has so much more of an atmosphere: The answer is that Earth had enough water to dissolve atmospheric CO2 and sequester it in limestone. Venus didn't, possibly because it was always too hot for liquid water, possibly because much of its water got split into hydrogen and oxygen because of the greater UV flux, with the hydrogen then escaping before bonding with other oxygen atoms faster than on Earth because of the lower escape velocity and higher temperature.)

I don't have any hard and fast equations on the subject but "Jeans escape" is a search term to use.

Titan also has a thick atmosphere at high altitude because its gravity is so low, and therefore its scale height is much larger. It's sometimes said that low-gravity bodies like Titan have "soft" atmospheres because the pressure gradient is gentler.

the duke of nuke wrote:Titan also has a thick atmosphere at high altitude because its gravity is so low, and therefore its scale height is much larger. It's sometimes said that low-gravity bodies like Titan have "soft" atmospheres because the pressure gradient is gentler.

Scale height, however, does not have any influence on surface pressure.

So how are the Elcar able to breath up in the mountains, then? How different can they reasonably be from Uesti in their needs for atmospheric pressure and oxygen?

Yiuel: the fact that nothing lives on Everest may not be only because of the air. It's also cold, windy, and young, so it hasn't had time to develop its own ecosystem. We can't rule out the possibility of low-pressure animals and plants if a stable, non-hostile environment were provided for them. Lower elevations have caused some adaptations, like larger lungs for animals and extra chromosomes for plants. Maybe further advances could be made in time...

Terrestrial humans seem to have no serious respiratory problems while on Almea.. the Greeks came and settled in Avéla (at the sea level), and they did not live on Earth on high terrain like most Peruvian people, which usually live under a minor air pressure. Atmospheric pressure should be thus not so different from Earth one.. maybe only slightly lower, and Terrestrial humans should experience only an increased and faster exhaustion while doing anything.

Maybe the Elcari have developped some ways to survive the paucity of oxygen.. something like a faster or slower cell metabolism (now I don't remember very well the correct way metabolism works with oxygen).. and if it's slower, this could be a partial explanation of their long life span.