zompist bboard

I recently started playing Diplomacy on the Internet, and it struck me how versatile and perfect for the Internet it is. It then struck me how fun a web- played Almea version would be. We'd include both Erelae and Arcel (no diacritics, sorry, smartphone browser). We'd just need to make a basic Erelae/Arcel map with regions and supply centers,otherwise same rules. Here's my plan for the factions:
Verduria
Kebri
Xurno
Dhekhnam
Skouras, including Fananak and Gurgado
Uytai
Belesao

Who'd be interested?

I don't see how you'd make this work with both continents simultaneously. Maybe just Erelae.

I'd obviously be Xurno. (With my Coraushi nickname, after all.)

brandrinn wrote:I don't see how you'd make this work with both continents simultaneously. Maybe just Erelae.

Erelae only, I think, would not give sea power enough clout, so e.g. Kebri would be underpowered. Plus, adding in Arcel would make for interesting situations...

dhokarena56 wrote:

brandrinn wrote:I don't see how you'd make this work with both continents simultaneously. Maybe just Erelae.

Erelae only, I think, would not give sea power enough clout, so e.g. Kebri would be underpowered. Plus, adding in Arcel would make for interesting situations...

Like what, the twelve-week sea journey to do a Lepanto maneuver? You can't integrate those continents with each other as well as you can integrate the various countries on each continent. It would boil down to two completely separate games going on simultaneously.

Now you're right that sea power would be a balance problem in Bocteica, because Erelae has more inland regions, and fewer shortcuts for naval units. But you can have a perfectly satisfying game with only ground units. After all, Diplomacy is about the human interaction, not the troop movements. In this scheme, Kebri would be accessible from Erenat.

The main problem (and I've spent the last day or so trying to work this out) is that there's just not enough believable equal powers in Erelae. You can probably get four easily: Verduria, Xurno, Skouras, and Dhekhnam. But any more than that and they just don't make sense. How could you give Kebri the same number of forces as Verduria? Where would it even put its supply centers? Same problem with Gurdago, Belshai, etc. One solution is to make each player start off with just one supply center: Verduria, Ornakh, Kebripol, etc. But this would make the early stages of the game pretty boring since it would take several in-game years for the players to butt heads.

I think either way you're going to have to drastically alter the game mechanics to make this work. Tailor it to the realities of Erelae, not Europe. How this would be done I don't know, but transferring the mechanics wholesale will not work.

Damnit! Now I want to make a Diplomacy-variant for my conworld...

brandrinn wrote: The main problem (and I've spent the last day or so trying to work this out) is that there's just not enough believable equal powers in Erelae. You can probably get four easily: Verduria, Xurno, Skouras, and Dhekhnam. But any more than that and they just don't make sense. How could you give Kebri the same number of forces as Verduria? Where would it even put its supply centers? Same problem with Gurdago, Belshai, etc. One solution is to make each player start off with just one supply center: Verduria, Ornakh, Kebripol, etc. But this would make the early stages of the game pretty boring since it would take several in-game years for the players to butt heads.

Why does it have to be 3480s Erelae? Why not pre-Kurundasti Skouras? Xengiman after the breakup of Axunai? Eretald might also work at a few points in its history.

But I really like the idea of using Skouras. From what I know of Diplomacy, the character of the game fits the character of ancient Skouras really well.

linguofreak wrote:

brandrinn wrote: The main problem (and I've spent the last day or so trying to work this out) is that there's just not enough believable equal powers in Erelae. You can probably get four easily: Verduria, Xurno, Skouras, and Dhekhnam. But any more than that and they just don't make sense. How could you give Kebri the same number of forces as Verduria? Where would it even put its supply centers? Same problem with Gurdago, Belshai, etc. One solution is to make each player start off with just one supply center: Verduria, Ornakh, Kebripol, etc. But this would make the early stages of the game pretty boring since it would take several in-game years for the players to butt heads.

Why does it have to be 3480s Erelae? Why not pre-Kurundasti Skouras? Xengiman after the breakup of Axunai? Eretald might also work at a few points in its history.

But I really like the idea of using Skouras. From what I know of Diplomacy, the character of the game fits the character of ancient Skouras really well.

Skouras could work. But even using the close-up map, you would need to invent a lot of placenames if you want seven players with three supply centers each, additional supply centers, and countless "filler" spaces including bodies of water. Perhaps if Zompist were given a map he would be willing to fill in some of the places himself. I'll whip up a map tonight and post it here for review (assuming the Skouras atlas didn't die back when the almeopedia died).

OK, here is what I've been working on, just to give you an idea. So far I'm assuming the rules are exactly the same as for Diplomacy. I took Skouras circa 240 Z.E. and made a few changes:

Itili conquers Endigori. Their territory (and the territory of their colonies) merges.
The same thing happens for Miligendi and Gasibur and their colonies.
Komand conquers Soridrand.
The colonies of Imuteli, Itili/Endigori, and Miligendi/Gasibur break away and become independent.
Some of the borders shift slightly.

This may sound like a lot of changes, but it's nothing compared to what would need to happen to most maps to create 6-8 equally viable powers. Also, as you can see in the map, I have left the northern three powers and the northern part of the Gulf of Skouras blank, as they have so far been a nightmare as far as balance is concerned. The rest is still very much a work in progress and is probably rife with other balance issues (which I implore you to point out to me!) but overall I'm fairly pleased with it.

The powers are Gutleli, Komand, Namal, Peligi, Gelihur, Miligendi, Itili, and Imuteli. Each player starts with three supply centers. The ones marked with a red dot start with army units. All others are navy (note that there are more naval units than in Diplomacy, since this is Skouras and we love boats, right?).



EDIT: for some reason the image isn't showing for me. Can everyone else see it OK? The link is: http://i.imgur.com/jiJDi.png

brandrinn wrote:Perhaps if Zompist were given a map he would be willing to fill in some of the places himself.

Certainly... looking at your map, the cities map will provide names for most regions, but if you run out, or need names for water areas, tell me.

I'll be gone this weekend, but I'll be back with a finished map on Monday. If anyone has anything to add to this project, please make your ideas known!

What do we call it? What's "Diplomacy" in OS?

Alternatively, we could use the root dirş-. "Dreşa"? "Dirşeḍ la-piŋdirşeḍ"?

You know, making diplomacy maps is very difficult.

[He says after many hours of labour]

EDIT:Ok, now my computer has noticed my project and taken umbrage. It 'can't find' the files I was making (they're right there!) and the ancient PSP5 that it now my only working image software has decided that, after 2683 days of its free trial period, the trial period is now officially over (having not used it for the last 2600 days...). Well SO MUCH FOR THAT IDEA.

[Actually, it's probably good to start again. I think my original 'entire continent, all factions' idea was probably too massive to be really workable. Smaller theatre next time, I think.]

Salmoneus wrote:You know, making diplomacy maps is very difficult.

[He says after many hours of labour]

EDIT:Ok, now my computer has noticed my project and taken umbrage. It 'can't find' the files I was making (they're right there!) and the ancient PSP5 that it now my only working image software has decided that, after 2683 days of its free trial period, the trial period is now officially over (having not used it for the last 2600 days...). Well SO MUCH FOR THAT IDEA.

[Actually, it's probably good to start again. I think my original 'entire continent, all factions' idea was probably too massive to be really workable. Smaller theatre next time, I think.]

I look forward to seeing your work! I sympathize with it being hard. I can't image trying to make a map for the whole continent!

Maybe we could set it in a hypothetical future? Where something like our nationalism happened, and we get equivalent mergers to the German and Italian ones? So it's like Eralea with more 1900s technology. Something like a Verduria ( + Other Cadhinor states), Dheknam (same as 3480), Xurno (same), United Lenani, Skouras, and then it get's really tricky. That's only five, and it would be nice to have more. Perhaps we could give Kebri more possesions in Qaraus (it has a colony there already in 3480) making a sort of weird northern power? I would like something in Luduyn, but that's pointless, since they could only ever fight Xurnos (the Diqun Bormai have to be impassable). Or perhaps this hypothetical Luduyn state could have a really large navy, and be poised to invade Lutay and the Southern littoral (perhaps we could give them a naval supply center in their already?)

Analyzing this patter we can see who would fight who:
(it's hard to tell, but Xurno is in a a triangle with Dheknam and Verduria)

So Xurno and the Lenani have a hard time, stuck as they are between everyone else.

I'd be interested in this; I have never played Diplomacy, but I like the genre, and I'd learn the rules.

Atom wrote:Maybe we could set it in a hypothetical future? Where something like our nationalism happened, and we get equivalent mergers to the German and Italian ones? So it's like Eralea with more 1900s technology. Something like a Verduria ( + Other Cadhinor states), Dheknam (same as 3480), Xurno (same), United Lenani, Skouras, and then it get's really tricky. That's only five, and it would be nice to have more. Perhaps we could give Kebri more possesions in Qaraus (it has a colony there already in 3480) making a sort of weird northern power?

As for the Kebri idea: maybe there could be something like Brazil, where Kebri would establish large colonies in Qaraus and then move the government there. That, along with the nationalistic environment you are describing, could potentially lead to civil unrest in Kebri as civilization moves to Qaraus. Then you could have the original Kebri secede from the Kebreni Empire, forming two seperate forces fighting over the name "Kebri": colonialist Qaraus Kebri and nationalistic Kebropol Kebri.
I like Kebri. It's my favorite Almean state.