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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:39 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:22 pm
Posts: 789
Location: UK
And here's the next instalment:
Quote:
4 Tokn

All those who supported Munśuk in the late rebellion are to be skinned alive.
Munśuko śaiok to:lgu lilok śaukzejido jaŋuŋ rokkaba:ilurouŋ
Munśuk-OBJ support-PAST every-person near-PAST rule-NEG-NOM-LOC breathe-ADJ outside-NOM-remove-IMP-ADJ

A few prisoners were being tortured in the square in front of the palace this morning.
Paunuŋ ba:ilsaragun yurkoksageokra daua:ido nizmado bu lil la:utin
some-ADJ remove-CAUS-PASS-PERSON-PL bad-die-CAUS-DUR-PAST-PASS city-PLACE-LOC before this come-day (=morning)

I can't really approve of that.
Raluŋ, gośi ličku:riŋjuze.
Truly, that-DAT face-give-1-ABIL-NEG

The morning is for work;
La:utino śigurouŋ
morning-OBJ work-IMP-ADJ

Such entertainment should be saved for lunchtime.
to:l lil śigutakur tinsai goźikajirodo pulusarouŋ
all this work-stop-GER day-middle meal(goźika)-time-LOC stay-CAUS-IMP-ADJ

Met Bokugo on the Avenue of Kings.
Bokugowo la:uliuiŋok paźiwano ŋa:unamado
Bokugo-OBJ meet-1-PAST king-PL-GEN street-AUG-LOC

My mind was on a big deal that's pending with the Saiśigu;
Yedukano ka:imśijimado la:ulilur Saiśiguli gau;
mind-1GEN sell-NOM-AUG-LOC come-near-GER Saiśigu-INSTR that

I only gathered that he was on the verge of a great discovery.
Bouŋ ni:dozu:ruiŋok ŋegeamai lila:ido gau.
one-ADJ harvest-1-PAST discovery-AUG-3GEN verge-LOC that

I told him that he was a genius and ought to go into the priesthood,
Yoniŋoki to:maguka na:ŋguakdo zenurouŋ gau,
Speak-1-PAST-3OBJ genius-AND priest-COLL-LOC go-IMP-ADG that

but he only laughed.
bouŋ yonukakuludokne.
only speak-NOM-break-INTENS-PAST-but

5 Tokn

The Saiśigu deal fell through.
Saiśiguli ka:imśiji źerźekuok.
Saiśigu-with deal fall-INTENS-PAST

It's too bad,
Mauŋ yur,
fill-ADJ (=full, too) bad

but if the stupid barbarians don't appreciate fine No:gala:i linen,
to:ze De:iju kalkal No:gala:ino rimawo da:izeneki,
clever-NEG De:iju good-INTENS No:gala:i-GEN weave-NOM-OBJ disdain-but-if

what can I do?
bokaśaiŋjuźu?
thing-which-1-ABIL-INTERR

I've got a few Munkhashi interested in copper;
Paunuŋ Munka:śuno yaujina:nmingdo i:lteniŋsa
some-ADJ Munkhashi-PL-OBJ beetle-god-SUBST-LOC eye-choose-1-CAUS

I've got to get hold of Seki the Na:iworgu.
Na:iworgu Sekido ŋa:iwo zu:riŋro.
Na:iworgu Seki-LOC hand-OBJ get-1-IMP


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:45 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:22 pm
Posts: 789
Location: UK
7 tokn

Went to Śakipeś Street to dine with Bokugo,
Śakipeś ŋa:unado Bokugoli go:źi źeniŋokka
Śakipeś street-LOC Bokugo-INSTR eat go-1-PAST-AND

who was burning to show me his latest findings.
su:ma la:likan liusano ŋolsageśa
new-AUG find-NOM-PL see-CAUS-me burn-DUR-who

He took out a clay tablet
ŋazawen zu:rok rok
clay-TOOL take-PAST out

and asked me to add three and three and three.
yonula:okkano śirka śirka śir bobiŋ gau
say-come(ask)-PAST-AND-me three-AND three-AND three add-1 that

I complied, and got nine.
la:utiŋok baŋ śirka zu:riŋokka
follow-1-PAST six three-AND get-1-PAST-AND

Then he said that he was almost certain,
yonokdo li ze:nuli lil gau
say-PAST-LOC after know-POSSESS near that

taking three quantities of three each,
śir paunak to:l śirno zu:rur
three some-COLL each three-GEN take-GER

that . . . one would always find the sum to be nine.
boba baŋ śirka to:l tin la:uliu gau
add-NOM six three-AND each day find that

It’s a cute mathematical curiosity, I suppose,
to:śiya boboze:nsuŋ bogoliuji, yediŋyu
clever-little add-teach-ADJ thing-see-NOM, think-1-TENT

but how often does it come up?
paun tindośa la:une?
some time-LOC-WHICH come-CONTR


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 9:29 am 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
Might I join you?

10 Tokn

Na:iworgu Seki daudo go źenokgemi.
Na:iworgu Seki city away go-past-DUR-REP
Seki the Na:iworgu is out of town.

Munkasguno ja:iyiŋoki Akśim bono bado Begoŋno yaujina:nmiŋni to:l ka:imśigeguno lauku:rmize gau.
Munkhâsh-man-PL-ACC tell-I-past-him Akśim one-ORD half-LOC Iliažë-GEN Beetle.god-SUBS-IND all sell-DUR-man-PL-ACC pay-REP-NEG that
I had to tell the Munkhâshi that Akśim does not favor those who sell copper in the first half of the month.
NOTES: Iliažë (Wede:i Begoŋ) is Almea’s largest moon; in the absence of a formal calendar as of yet, it would seem appropriate that the Wede:i would judge time by its passage.

Yonjau jok niŋmaliguwo, na:nun a:inurono, wensano ka:impegunne.
Speak-4 another trade-man-ACC god-PL help-IMP-me luck-CAUS-me buy-REP-man-PL-but
The gods help me if they talk to another trader, but thankfully they are old customers.

Jirobu śirśiya niŋmaliwo menmiŋta:i yemiŋŋir we:śiŋoki.
Hour-before small-small deal-ACC resin-right tin-left make-past-I-him
In the meantime we negotiated a minor deal, tin for resin.
NOTES: Resin is literally “pine-cone substance”; tin is “river-substance”. The Wede:i merchant would most probably be using his right hand to hand over goods; the other party would use their own right hand (on the trader’s left) to display their own.

Saitindo go:źiŋok Miriŋi:lka tik bi:kano ka:imśimagu.
Middle-day-LOC eat-I-past Miriŋil-and old silver-GEN sell-augment-man
Lunched with Miriŋi:l, the old silver magnate.
NOTES: “I lunched” is literally “I ate at midday”.

La:uliŋtaize ra:ido yebi:do lumenzeki leźuyunone.
Meet-I-DES-him-NEG none-LOC gold-LOC wash-REFL-NEG-if trust-TENT-me-CONT
I wouldn’t be caught dead with him if he wasn’t dripping with gold, but he seems to like me.
NOTES: Without a word for “like” or “friend”, the best approximation of “like” is leźu “trust”.

Yonpe, lirayonuŋ mo:mo gu:meno la:uliŋta gu:mekzene.
Say-REP see-PASS-say-ADJ young man-PL-ACC see-I-DES men-COLL-NEG-CONT
“I appreciate honest young men,” he says, “there’s so few of them.”
NOTES: “Honest” is here “saying what is seen”, thus what is (for them) true. Alternatively, Miriŋil could have said lirayongumeno “men who say what is seen”.

Lirayonuŋze ka:imugumo a:inuŋka bobokok la:uk śir śebarguno śigusiroksai.
See-PASS-say-ADJ-NEG customer-ACC one-one-and-past because three write-man-PL-ACC work-without-past-CAUS-him
He had to fire three clerks recently for false addition (and moreover in the customer’s favor).

Liltinno ze:nsakataze,
This-day-GEN teach-NOM-DES-NEG
He blames modern education:

Ja:iamano ituri kalju boboka yokbosirka pamurazejuze.
Story-AUG-PL-ACC read good-ABIL one-one-and two-one-without-and hear-PASS-NEG-ABIL-NEG
It’s all very well to read the great epics, but you can’t ignore addition and subtraction.

Lirayonyu śukuŋne,
See-PASS-say-TENT rock-ADJ-CONT
He’s right, I suppose, but terribly rigid;

Do:do jaŋuta yonuliti.
Breeze-LOC breathe-DES speak-PPART-him-after
You want a breath of fresh air after talking with him.


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:09 am 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
Actually, I'm not sure whether or not the author was selling or buying the tin; this is a fairly random guess.


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 5:42 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
By the way, does Bokugo's name then mean "more than one", from bo (one), -ku- (object suffix), -go (away from)? Or might it be a name from a minority group in the Wede:i sphere?


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 5:55 pm 
Boardlord
Boardlord

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 10396
Location: In the den
I'm pretty sure it's 'one hat' (bo+kugo) though I don't recall why.


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:19 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
Next along!

11 Tokna:n

Da:iuwenunni lauku:rupeiŋur buniŋokita la:uk, Kaltoawo nizdo źeniŋok.
Value-tool-INDO pay-REC-I-GER empty-I-him-DES because Kaltoa-ACC palace-LOC go-I-past
Went to Kaltoa at the Palace, to see about lessening my merchandise tax.
Note: Literally “my paying for value tools”.

Kaltoa guzenno la:uk, śiya lauku:rwen ku:riŋoki.
Kaltoa person-know-me because small money-tool give-I-past-him
Kaltoa knows me, so it took only a small bribe.

Su: pu:kwen nizdo ja:iyokno,
New bad-tool palace-LOC tell-past-me
He told me the latest Palace scandal:

Yok śirgo paźiwajuŋun na:nku:rraun paźiwajuŋurze zu:rtokmi ŋu:mazinli paźiwano.
Two three-away king-son-PL god-give-PASS-PL king-son-GER-NEG sleep.with-past-REP mountain-woman-PL-INS king-GEN
Two of three of their Eminences the Princes seem to have taken some un-princely liberties with the King’s concubines.

Munśuk mikzeulge biźa:indo Akśimno benuŋlil digugeka.
Munśik tie-not-PASS-REP grass-place-PL-LOC Xengi-GEN lower-near hide-REP-and
It is rumored that Munśuk is still at large, hiding in the marshes of the lower Xengi.

Paźiwa źens(a)okyu la:uliako źensaguli Muku paźiwajuŋ lenleźul,
King send-past-TENT find-COL-ACC leader-INST Muku king-son aug-trust-PASS
The King was going to send an expedition there led by his favorite prince Muku,

Muku zimisiwo nitrasokgun paźiwanuŋunnone.
Muku woman-room-ACC walk-in-VRB-man-PL king-son-PL-GEN-but
But in fact Muku was one of the princes of the harem infiltration.

Tu:busir lil jiro.
Smooth-without this hour
It’s a tricky situation.


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 6:14 am 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
13 Tokna:n

Bokugo komonodo la:ok ŋa:ila:zeul,
Bokugo house-my-LOC come-past invite-not-PP
Bokugo came over to my house uninvited:

Lioksanota lil yedako.
See-past-CAUS-me-DESI this think-COLL-ACC
He was anxious to show off his latest ruminations.

La:uliokmi bokan ŋoki ku:rurno, źalkanki da:urgaujinki jok bokan murize, bogunśi ku:rraki, to:lak bokanno la:usaraju śebarge źalkanli tu:busir.
Find-past-TENT object-PL same give-GER-GEN/table-PL-if skin.fruit-PL-if other object-PL change-NEG/person-PL-DATPAS give-PASS-if/each-group object-PL-GEN summon-PASS-ABIL make-DUR table-PL-INST smooth-without
He has found that whenever a given number of objects–tablets, oranges, it doesn’t matter what kind of objects–are distributed among the same number of people, the total quantity of objects can be calculated with complicated tables which he is working out.

Beśasir lil śiga, Bokugo losuwo ŋo:duyumine.
Flesh-without this work-N/Bokugo moose-ACC hunt-TENT-REP-but
It’s all very abstract, but Bokugo seems to think he’s on to something.
Literally, “Bokugo seems to think he’s hunting a moose”.

Ŋaiktajau źalkano bogun da:uruno riŋtukano bokano ku:rtakiźu, yonokiŋi, liuzeoknone pamokzenoka.
Carry-want-4 table-PL-ACC person-PL skin-PL-ACC beer-GEN object-PL-ACC give-DES-if-Q/say-past-1-3/see-NEG-past-me-but hear-past-NEG-me-and
I asked him if people were really going to lug these tables around when they wanted to distribute skins of beer or whatever, but he didn’t pay any attention.
“He did not see me and did not hear me” for “he didn’t pay any attention [to me]”.

Nitwensir leźuŋ beśara.
Walk.tool-without trust-ADJ flesh-inside
He doesn’t have a practical bone in his body.


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:19 pm 
Boardlord
Boardlord

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 10396
Location: In the den
It took awhile to get to it, but I went through this carefully, updating both the grammar and lexicon. It's not quite done, but as a preview, here's the next section.

16 Tokna:nno

Yokno śirabataur; gotakgun la:uokpe.
two-ADJ third-month / ktuvok-man-PL come-PAST-REPET
Second half of the month: the Munkhâshi were back.

Na:iworgu Seki daudo go źenokgene.
Na:iwor-man Seki city-LOC away go-PAST-DUR-BUT
Yet Seki the Na:iworgu is still out of town.

To:l śirabataur no:bi:wo kaimśiuro Akśim da:ize gau yokiŋjuze, yok tindo ti no:biwo buku:roki.
all third-month copper-ACC sell-GERUND-ACC Akśim approve-NEG SUB say-1s-ABIL-NEG / two day-LOC after copper-ACC promise-PAST-3s.obj
I could hardly have Akśim forbid copper selling all month, so I promised them that I’d have the copper within two days.

Ŋauśa źeniŋju?
way-WHICH go-1s-ABIL
What am I going to do?


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:03 am 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
Hurrah, you've joined us! I'll alter my own passages accordingly (I note that the Munkhâshi are "ktuvok-men" here; does that mean the Wede:i were familiar with ktuvoks to some degree? If so, what was their opinion of them?), but I'm not sure how much to change, so I'll wait for your word (ha, ha) before totally revamping them.


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:57 am 
Boardlord
Boardlord

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 10396
Location: In the den
Eh, better to leave it as a historical document. :) I've added quite a few roots plus some grammar, so you'll want to wait for the update anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:49 pm 
Boardlord
Boardlord

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 10396
Location: In the den
OK, the update is up. The grammar has been revised and extended, the lexicon is nearly doubled, and all the translated bits of the Multipliers (and more) have been added.

I have followed some but not all of the suggestions for words. Mostly this is because I can create roots. Sometimes I preferred a different etymology or idiom. A few times it was because the word already existed. (The time words, for instance, already lived in the Xurnese grammar.)

Both Mornche and Pedant did amazing work with the limited lexicon available.

(Some of the new roots go back to Proto-Southern, which now has nearly 170 roots. A few could be traced back from Old Skourene. Others will require tracing forward to OS, but I haven't done this yet.)


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:05 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
Thank you, Zompist. Coming from the Maker, that's high praise. The new calendar I really like as well.
Does this mean our unnamed narrator mainly trades in metals, then?


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:27 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:22 pm
Posts: 789
Location: UK
Hi.I've been out of it for a while, but I'm glad to see the updated grammar and your corrections of our translations!

I like this sentence but I'm having a little trouble parsing it. : To:l śe:i murando ŋerupe. Nitwensir leźuŋ beśara.

It's the second part of the sentence that's giving me trouble. What is a verbal affix doing on a noun (beśara)?

Thanks for the grammar, Zompist. I like the question words and the kinship terms. I felt the lack of the former when I was doing the translations earlier.


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:48 pm 
Boardlord
Boardlord

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 10396
Location: In the den
Oops, an artifact of the translation process. I copied your and Pedant's translations, then replaced them line by line. In this case, rather than supplying the gloss, I kept Pedant's version— for his gloss, see a couple posts above.


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 Post subject: Re: The Multipliers
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:46 am 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
Haven't done this in a while...

18 Tokna:n

Ŋaiśigu “use (hand-work)”

Ŋa:ila:urali źenok Bokugono.
Invite-INS go-PAST Bokugo-GEN
Invited over by Bokugo.

We:śokmi to:l ŋazan,
Make-PAST-TENT all tablet-PL
He seems to have completed all of his tables;

Ra:i jiro liuri do:te:duma.
Not.any hour see-REM-him excited-AUG
I’ve never seen him so excited.

Ŋaiśigoki.
Hand.work-PAST-them
He demonstrated them.

Bi:ka keŋuno baŋ boka kalliulunni ku:rilmiki, Bokugono ŋazanli, tausebaŋ tauseka keŋuno ku:rilyu.
Silver bar-PL-ACC six one-AND friend-PL-IND give-thou-TENT-if / Bokugo-GEN tablet-PL-INS / four.six four-AND bar-PL-ACC give-thou-then
Say you have seven friends and given them each four silver bars. You will have given them twenty-eight bars, according to Bokugo’s tables.

To:lze:nu boyokali ŋoziwo ze:nyaiju, źenul ŋozi boyok zu:rokiŋka, ku:rboyokak Bokugono śabukmaze.
Certain add-noun-INS same-ACC find.out-ABIL / do-PASS same sum take-past-1-AND / multiplication Bokugo-GEN fast-AUG-but
You could figure it out with addition, of course (I did just that, in fact, and came up with just the same number), but not so quickly.


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