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 Post subject: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 2:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
Quite literally, I'm trying to write a text in Old Skourene, and I seem to be stuck on the adverb "as well" or "also" in a sentence. More precisely, given the sentence in question (it's from the culture test), the word "even" or "possibly" would be useful here. Unfortunately, looking over the grammar, it appears as if there isn't such an adverb as of yet; the closest equivalent only works in the negative.
Thus, I ask: how would such a construction work?

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 4:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 3377
Location: In the den
For "also" in general, you can just use ḷa-. For "even", ŋa- should work.

For doubtful states, see if you can use the mutative or desiderative, or the prefix me-; all of these have an irrealis implication.

If you want to be more precise, you could use nloud as an adverbial (literally "we don't know").

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 6:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
Thank you!
Here's my best attempt so far on the Umandas Skourandau:

If you're Skourene...

Nulda epeṭa lenimu, narni doḷim.
Know-INT-2sm power have-DES-3p god-GENp
You think the gods are important-- everyone should have one.

Ŋaŋliti eputela maarmiu bsepagoş.
But-listen-INT-NEG-2sm-3p around-DUR-3p-GENp clan-2GENm
But you can't imagine telling someone outside your bsepa (your extended family) who to worship.

Ḍenoli baunledar lenimu ibbabageşoro laŋiku. Boiŋki!
Tell-3p-3p name-PL god-GENPL ERG-some-ruler-PL outsider-GENPL/hurt-CYC-3s
In some foreign countries the rulers tell you who your gods are. Crazy!
NOTES: “[It is] crazy” is “it must continually hurt them”.

Patili lenimdoḷ,
Believe-2sm-3p god-all
You're reverent to all gods–

Naurni akeroklene ŋabeg?
Have-DES-INC-3s-3p fighter-godly-PL who-ERGS
Who needs supernatural enemies?

Ŋaşiupilisi ḷaşiuminiṭi lenim ḷalenis bseipagos.
But-only-sacrifice-2s-3p and-only-thank-2s-3p two clan-GEN-2GENm
But you reserve your sacrifices and requests for the two gods of your bsepa, one male and one female.
NOTE: In the absence of a word meaning “ask” or “request”, the word “thank” is best used, perhaps as a not-so-subtle hint that you want more.

Nirinum ḷatiroṭum lenimi aŋutiroṭ,
Want-2s-3sn and-create-3p-3sn god-PL because-IMP-create-3p
You can ask the gods for things because that's their job:
Literally, “you want something and the gods make it, because they have to make [it]”.

Ŋapaimod ḷaneason.
Because-help-CYC-3p and-guard-DUR-3p
They're helpers and guardians.

Nilḍeulni ŋokḍelni ḷamandbab.
Know-become.god-INC-3p stop-become.god-3p and-human-some
Things can become gods–some gods even used to be human beings–and they can cease to be gods.
Literally, “things know how to become gods, stop becoming gods, and some humans as well”. (This is the one I had trouble on.)

Gitorum Ṭaldoḷ ḷalenimilek ḷamandalek Iksaragetor getirṭim mamelidoḷ Aḷiggamagetor geŋremasp ḷatirṭim gammama, ŋaptli klanldikuş.
Create-3p-3sns world and-god-PL-its and-nation-PL-its ERG-Ksaragetor plus-make-3s-3pn thing-good-every and-ERG-Gamagetor plus-false-think-ERGPART and-make-3s-3pn clumsy-object-PL / but-believe-NEG-3p or-know-3p-much
The world, including its gods and people, was originally created by Ksaragetor (who is responsible for all good things) and Gamagetor (who was not so good at his job and created all the messed-up things); but no one worships them or knows much about them.

Nelidum uṭalpas, aiŋrḷata-si?
Understand-2s-3sn writing-ART CAUS-trade-2s-Q
You can read–how would you do business without it?
Literally, “can it cause you not to trade”?

Sarik nlenar aḷuminnalnas amaḍi Skourandu ḷamŋelalene ḷariuŋŋar ḷabaugimaḍa ḷabauḍişan ḷaṭlepar eŋuretaugoş ḷagegarkuş.
Enjoy-2s story-PL and-history turn-ABSPART state-GENp Skourene-GENp and-speech-godly-PL and-song-PL and-word-chew-TOOL-PL and-knowledge-TOOL and document-PL trade-GEN-2sGEN and-other.thing-many
You enjoy reading stories, the convoluted history of the Skourene states, sermons, poems, satires, philosophy, treatises about your trade, and much else.
History is uminalnas “back-telling”, convoluted is amaḍi “turning [on its own]”, satire is baugimaḍ “tool for chewing with words”, and philosophy is bauḍişan “tool for showing with words”.

EDIT: Removed the ḷa- prefix in the notes section.

Last edited by Pedant on Sun May 17, 2015 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
EDIT: I forgot a bit. Sorry, here it is. Please let me know if I've made mistakes.

Piraṭa şimeḍulena krekai, medai grelusamtas aḷesutera aḷukusnalsas aḷukanşas aḷuṭelkarkas aḷenulena nilasu aḷusintas.
Game-PL only-education war-GEN/ body-REF2sm exchange-run-ART and-swimming and-archery and-row-ART and-hand-fight-ART and-throwing spear-GENPL and-swordsmanship
Games are simply training for war: running, swimming, archery, rowing, wrestling, spear throwing, sword fighting.
Medai comes from med- “body”; literally, the word means “you use your body” or “you form your body”. Running is usamtas, archery is ukusnalsas “superior art of throwing”, and wrestling is uṭelkarkas “the art of hand-fighting”.

Aimaidiri apasnir ippiraṭaral aḷaboimim kriukkar aseŋoku, klagolmimu krukussarikim.
CAUS-body-DES-CYC-REFL3pm masculine-PL ERG-game-THISPL and-watch-DES-CYC-3pm-3pn fight-PL master-GENPL/ or-captured.person-GENPL because-superior-enjoy-2s-3pn
If you're male, you like to participate in these and watch exhibitions by masters–or even better, fights with captured prisoners.
“Master” is aseŋok “succeeder”. The second part of the phrase is literally “or [the fights] of captured prisoners, because you enjoy them more”.

Krulamaşḍir pairriṭim aṭinarşat, ḷapuriṭim anaktir ded nsulnilpariṭim.
Female-PL play-CYC-2sf-3pn while-mature-DUR-2sf and-play-INT-2sf-3pn first-PL three therefore-know-play-2sf-3pn
If you're female, you grew up playing at these things too, and can pursue the first three as an adult, if you care to.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
One thing that should be noted is my use of the masculine forms throughout unless specified otherwise. I am unaware of how close to the truth this would have been in the original Skourene test, seeing as there is no impartial second person verb; I also make note of a number of phrases in the English which seem to point to a masculine writer, but again, it's open to interpretation until the final word of Zompist.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 6:47 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
I fear I have one more question: for verbs that form -au- in the desiderative, how does one add a cyclical aspect? Would the form be -ai-, -aui- (unlikely), or -auri-?

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:04 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
I decided to just cancel the /u/, leaving a standard -ai-. Hope this works!

Eat-DES-2sm-3sn-Q/Eat-INT-1s-3sn cut.third-patient
Would you eat that? I'll have a slice

Usŋegg, murgamsaŋik ndusaŋikum gega, murbeaŋkim ginog ndunosmrig, murbeaŋḷaka eŋ ndudnitum ṭalul.
IMP-work-1pinc/ before-clumsy-work-2sm after-IMP-work-2sm-3sn other.thing/ before-hurt-DUR-3pn foot-PL after-IMP-money-count-2sm/ before-annoy-DUR-3sn-2sm after-IMP-go-2sm-3sn sea-CDEF
We're here to work; if you get tired of doing one thing, do another; if your feet hurt, do the accounting; if you're sick of the city, take to the sea.
The phrasing in Old Skourene suggests two states or actions, one before the choice and the other after; the option is in the imperative.

Nlun nilsrikim ŋolsim ḷaniummar ḷasnoda, saurkai ḍiradoḷ aŋunline.
Say-NEG-1s ability-enjoy-NEG-2s-3pn food and-drink-PL and-diversion-PL / enjoy-DES-2sREF all-day but-IMP-tell-NEG-2sm-1s
This isn't to say you can't enjoy yourself with food and drink and amusements, but don't tell me you want to do that all day long.

Ŋeilisum aṭiseiḷgal ŋliussaroḍ bsepataḍ,
Eat-CYC-2sm-3sn while-evening-CDEFAS meal-big family-alongside
You like to eat a big meal in the evening, at home with your family;
The term “evening” is seiḷga “it cyclically is darkened”.

Ŋanosḍairiḍum sneragoş diriŋ ŋratali, klaḍairiḍi neirag tnasali.
But-buy-CYC-2sm-3sn meal-2sGEN loc-CYC-2s market/ or-bring-CYC-2sm-2pm toward-CYC-2p eatery.
But you usually buy your lunch in the market, or take some business associates to an eatery (tnasali).
Note that the locative verb ner- in this case take the 2p absolutive form, combining the subject and the object from the previous verb.

Ŋlis mambab ŋagegakuş.
Eat-NEG-2s thing-few but-other-many
There's very little that you wouldn't eat.
A tautology, but the separation of the few and others is implied.

Ṭiḷkum meŋel aṭibişiṭ didmim aḷaṭiḍişin anedopnakur.
Empty-3sn mouth-2sGEN mouth when-travel-2sm far-DUR-3pn and-when-see-2sm lively.AGENT-new-PL
If you travel to faraway places and see exotic animals, your mouth waters.
Animal is adenop "one who is lively".

Dma nama ḷasauiltai ḍusdoḷ, sailna ḍnsa nsulṭailal klaḍeilul, ḍensa ksaslataliurul eŋil.
Far-NEG-2s water-PL and-wash-DES-CYC-2sREF day-every/middle-CYC-2s rich-NEG-2s sea-GEN-CDEF or-river-GEN-CDEF/ rich-2s heat-wash.place-GENp-CDEF city-GEN-CDEF.
You don't like to live far from the water, and you take a morning bath every day if possible-- if you're poor, right in the ocean or the river; if you're better off, in the heated city baths.
Bath is ksaslatali “heated washing place”, as distinct from slatali “lavoir”.

EDIT: Thank you, Zompist. Sauriltai is now sauiltai.

Last edited by Pedant on Sat May 23, 2015 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 4:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 3377
Location: In the den
Pedant wrote:
I fear I have one more question: for verbs that form -au- in the desiderative, how does one add a cyclical aspect? Would the form be -ai-, -aui- (unlikely), or -auri-?

The general answer is "whatever the conjugation utility says". :) As I used it for the samples in the grammar, I would not want to contradict it now!

And in fact it uses -aui-.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 8:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
Aw, that almost feels like cheating...but, when life hands you lemons on a silver platter...
Thank you for the help. How does it seem so far?
Also, looking at said page, this means that the inceptive desiderative of dant- "go/send" would be dauuntu. Does this contradict Old Skourene not having long vowels, or is it assumed that the two will cancel one another out/be separated by -r- (thus dauntu or dauruntu)?

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 3377
Location: In the den
The no-double-vowels rule is supposed to be absolute, so I'd make it dauruntu.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 6:35 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
Got it! I'll remember for the next installment.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:47 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
Pay-DES-1sABS because-test-CDEF
Do I get paid for taking this test?

Doadmi “they are sadly continuously far away; all foreign peoples”
Ḍiraḍ “tool for carrying; carriage”
Ḍoḍosp “old brother; person of importance in the bsepa”
Eŋgeundu “someone from out-of-town”
Namali “waterfront, docks”
Nosderşa “cooperation for money, service”
Ṣoḷmiṭim “skiff”
Teḷkriukka “dispute, prosecution”

Murdaunitum ṭlepa kladigad moṭimi eŋdadnu deḍuroḍum ŋabauḍeroḍo, ge-mirili saralni gerredil.
Before-send-DES-2sm-3sn essay or-wrap.tool person-GEN city-inside-3smABS after-carry-INT- ERG-word.carry-agent-PL / CR-summon-2sm-3pm middle-DUR-3pmABS street-GEN-CDEF
If you need a letter or package sent to someone in the city, there are messengers who will take it-- you just flag one down in the street.

Gantasgi buluru ŋaparatli.
Barefoot-3pmABS hairy-PL but-trust-DUR-3pmABS
Barefoot, shaggy fellows, but reliable.

Birişti ḷageirdi eŋu nosdorşa ŋagandegi.
Travel-CYC-3pmABS and-between-CYC-3pmABS city-GEN-PL money-work.RESOBJ-PL but-foot.wrap-3pmABS
There are services between cities, considerably more well-heeled.
Service is nosderşa “cooperation for money”.

Ŋresarikum mniuddar, ŋaḍimmaurmu eŋul abeg?
False-enjoy-2sm-3sn walk.instance-PL/but-completely-walk.circle-DES-3sm city-GEN-CDEF who
You have no objection to walking, but who has the time to walk all the way across town?
“You do not falsely enjoy walks”, thus “you do enjoy walks”.

Ḍairḷoḍa ḍiroḍ klameiriṭum şoḷmiṭim geḍḷum namaliul.
Carry-3pn-2sm carry-tool-PL or-ride-CYC-2sERG-3snABS dock-GEN-DEFPL
There's carriages for that; or you take a skiff along the waterfront.

Nulidum murunra eŋil, nduşḷimum şoḷmim.
Of.course before-move-int-2sm city-gen-DEF/after-sail-IMP-2sm-3sn ship-GEN
To get to other cities, of course, you take a ship.

Ṣaragil kru-tiaḍ mandi agaşri bseupa iggrepu smapaliri; gropa boṭşinkosu nen-doadmi.
Great-DUR-2smERG because-inside-2smERG people-GEN free rule-abs.part bsepa-GEN-PL meet-erg.part-GEN-PL senate-GEN/rule.NEG-3pm-2sm king-GENPL as-foreigners
You're proud to be part of a free people, which is ruled by its own bsepas, meeting in a Senate, and not by "kings", as the foreigners are.

Kaḷişum tişapsok kla-tişapurg, kaḷişum bol aḍamni kla-bolsaḷg kla-bol nen-nilam,
Have.inalienably-2sm-3sn skin-pale or-skin-dark/have.inalieanably-2sm-3sn hair black or-hair-brown or-hair as-gold
People can have lighter or darker skin, or hair that ranges from black to brown to straw color.

It doesn't mean anything.
Literally, “You can’t sell it, can you?”

Ŋa-ptilu ḍimgend eŋgeundu.
But-trust-NEG-2sm-3sm town-come-INC-3smABS
You don't entirely trust someone from out of town, though.

Suṭşim de-kusmaspim, suṭişu de-nosnirinu.
Solve-INT-3pnABS after-super.think-3pnABS / solve-DES-2smERG after-money.have-2smERG
You think that most problems can be solved if they're thought about long enough–and if you can be the first to think of it, there's probably money in it.

Tŋkim teḷkriukka nsul-nilḍarḍim nerim dladaliu, ŋa-mḷaŋa kru-nilparogum ŋortimgoş.
End-3pn-NEG dispute-PL therefore-take-3pn-ABIL court-GENPL / but-scare-3sn-2sm because-ABIL.inspect-3pm-3pn merchandise-G2sm
Disputes that can't be solved any other way can be taken to the courts-- a scary prospect, as the judges are empowered to probe into every aspect of your life.
Literally, “They can inspect your wares”.

Maŋili ḍuḍosp bseipal kru-ŋemola.
Speak-DES-2sm-3pm brother-PL-old bsepa-GEN-DEF because-benefit-3pm-2sm
The better way is to talk to the higher-ups in the bsepa, and they'll work it out for you.

Aipomoda, aŋa-trḷala dladali.
CAUS-help-MET-3pm-2sm / but-touch-NEG-3sa-2sm court
You'll owe them a favor; but that's better than the courts getting their hands on you.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:16 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
Here.person-PL and-other.person-PL
People and Other People

Ameŋoṭ “monster, scarer” (though maybe not after Sulley’s time…)
Anenokits “mischievous little one”
Nraşali “farm”
Sleladem “steppe, upper plain”
Ṣketapiraṭ “drinking game”

Mrḍim mandimi ṭailḍol.
Alone-NEG-3pm Human-PL Almea-GEN
Humans aren't the only people on Almea.

Ḍadŋim Ṭailuadniral ṭail,
In-3pmABS iliu-DEFPL sea-GEN
There's the Ṭailuadnir, who live in the sea;

Kriki ḷa-ḍoḍidi, aŋa-bŋoka.
Fight-NEG-2sm-3pm and-brother-NEG-2sm-3pm / but-hurt-NEG-3pm-2sm
You don't want one as an enemy, and you're not sure if you want one as your friend, either. Not that they'll harm you, no.
NOTE: Maybe this would be better phrased “You don’t want to fight the Ṭailuadnir, and…”

Ŋairoti maḍaṭiŋi ḷa-ḍareli akuşṭḷaki aḷ-aḍaltir iṭṭrete tealoku Atingetoro saipal poṭimi ipplene.
Sell-CYC-3pm jewel-PL and-stone-good mine-PASSPART and-beautiful-PL make-PASSPART-PL on-3pmERG elcar-PL mountain-GENPL strong.man-little-PL friendly-ACTPART-PL
Then there's the Atingetoro-- little, fierce, friendly guys from the mountains, who come round to sell gems and minerals and metals they've dug up, and beautiful things they've made out of them.

Noulidu priṭi şketapiriraṭul.
Learn-MET-2smERG play-NEG-2sm-3pm drink-game-DEFGENPL
You've learned the hard way not to play drinking games with them.

Nonra geŋul kru-ḍadnim geŋŋiaḷgirigil anenokitsi.
Move-NEG-2smERG forest-DEFGEN because-in-3pm icëlan-PLDEF trickster.little-PL
Then there's the geŋŋiaḷgirigi-- mischievous little devils who are an excellent reason not to go into the forest, where they live.

Ŋolḍairḷoḍi nraşalir ṭom-aisuarḷoki.
Bring.food-CYC-3pa-3pm farm-PL purpose-CAUS-please-INT-DUR-3pa-3pm
Farms near the forest will leave out food for them, to appease them.

Odaŋu saupul kla-slelademul ameŋoṭo-gog.
Live-MET-3pmA mountain-GENPL-DEF or-steppe-DEF monster-PL-other
There are other monsters up in the mountains or the steppe.

Nelid kusnirkuş kru-gaumspa.
Understand-2smE language-PL-many because-clumsy.think-NEG-2smA
You're not the sort of hick who only knows one language.

Nelid kusniul eŋigoş ḷa-ṭrotabab,
Understand-2smE language-DEF city-GEN-mthy and-city.state-PL-other
You know your own city's language and that of a few other Skourene cities.

Nalid kusniul Aksuni kla-Ḍabriŋi kla-boḍimiriul kla-ḍonimiriul.
Understand-DES-2smE language-DEF Axunai-GEN or-Jeor-GEN or-westerner-GENPL-DEF or-northerner-GENPL-DEF
Possibly Axunašin, Jeori, Mei, or Tžuro as well.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
Been a while since I did one of these...I would have gone further, but I wasn't sure of the word for "vegetable". Or "chicken", for that matter.

Round-3snA Almea / topic-wrong.say-CYC-3smE
One of them said Almea is round, if you can believe it

Bak “mad, insane” (Old Jeori vækə “wrathful”, Wede:i “crazy”)
Bauguitru “he intends to create with words; philosopher”
Bauŋriunna “rambling, mad talk”
Eŋeded "the Delta (in reference to the three cities)"
Ŋolgiṭḷeg “feast (we are made happy by food)”
Kuspiraṭ “competition (superior game)”
Mriugga “chronology”
Ŋeilsui “we cyclically feed ourselves; dole”
Ŋokikkrek “stopping-fighting, trucial”
Usaṭşas “art of calculation; mathematics”

Aisirikḷotag bsopa, nosḍairḷoḍi agedoro ḷa-dladalir ḷa-gerrede ḷa-punspiuttar ḷa-ŋeilsuir.
CAUS-tax-CYC-3sa-2p bsepa-PL / pay-CYC-3pa-3pm defender-PL and-court-PL and-road-PL and-festival-PL and-dole-PL
Each of the bsepas has a tax levied on it, which goes to pay for defense, the courts, roads, public entertainments, and the dole.

Srka, aŋa-nospiŋiririni.
Please-NEG-2sm / but-money-give-CYC-2sm-3pm
You grumble over it, but you pay your share.

Ḍenla uṭalpas aḷ-usaṭşas daŋa ŋsamaliri, aiḍeanla bsepai ameloṭ epulenai ḷa-epuleta.
Learn-2sm writing.art and-mathematics location-2sm childhood.home-GENS / caus-learn-DUR-3sm-2sm bsepa-GEN summoner kindness-GEN and-belief-GEN
You learned to read and write and calculate at home, and you learned morality and worship from the bsepa's priest.

Maraŋolim baugitrubab, nosḍauiriḍi nliullasir.
Speak-DES-3pm-3pn philosopher-some / pay-DES-CYC-2sm-3pm word-their
Some of the philosophers offer lectures; it's often worth paying a few coins to hear what they have to say.

Neulidu ḍusmoṭ, sanloda ḍusgog bauŋriunnasir.
Know-INC-2sm day.one / amuse-3pa-2sm day.other crazy-speech-their
Sometimes you learn something; sometimes you just laugh at the crazy old greybeard's ravings.

Meargim groparami pasta, aṭi-girirpiri smiuppar Eŋededul.
Count-DUR-3pn groparam-GEN year-PL / when-meet-CYC-3pmREF assembly-PL delta-DEFGEN
Years are reckoned by the groparam, the triennial Trucial Councils between the three delta cities.

Girirropi smapalir ded, sairouku kuspiraṭa ḷa-ŋolgiṭḷege ḷa-mnenlenar.
Meet-CYC-3p-3p senate-PL three/ enjoy-CYC-1pmERG competition-PL and-feast-PL and-drama-PL
The three Senates meet together, and there's competitions and feasts and performances.

Pumnlladeg mriuggail, gropi oŋul ikkreke.
Help-learn-NEG-3sa-1pm chronology-DEFGEN/ meet-NEG-3p-3p city-DEFPL fight-EPART-PL
Complicating the chronology, they're not held if the cities are at war with each other.
NOTE: pumnlladeg is “it does not help us in learning”; “the cities at war do not meet the others”.

Last edited by Pedant on Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:20 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 3377
Location: In the den
I'm surprised I don't have a word for the delta. Though I like your coinage, I think it'd probably be called Eŋeded, the Three Cities.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:01 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
Thank you! Correction made!

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:02 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:10 am
Posts: 15
Out of curiosity, what was your coinage before you corrected it?

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:59 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
It used to be lesḍiarnum or leşḍiarnum "river delta (water is mixed continuously)."

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:44 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
Fine, fine, I'll finish it up. I'm just quite sure the Skourenes wouldn't borrow the word for "chicken" from Axunašin...maybe from Jeori? Ah, well, I'll leave that question for the Zompist.

Baipa “chicken” (Old Jeori vaypə, Wede:i waipa)
Ḍraḍali “garden, plot”
Ḍuṭem “vegetable (Axunašin jučem)

Ḍeiriḍim ḍuṭemegoş daiŋim ḍraḍaliri geḍlum greḍaigoş, ḷa-ḍuariḍim baipar.
Grow-CYC-2sm-3pn vegetable-PL-thy LOC-CYC-3pn garden-GEN beside-3sn house-GEN-thy/ and-grow-INT-DUR-2sm-3pn chicken-PL
You grow your own vegetables in a plot by your house, and perhaps raise chickens as well.

Ḍeiriḍim gogadoḷ ŋrataliril.
Buy-CYC-2sm-3pn else-all market-GENDEF
Everything else you buy at the market.

“Pkmeḍ,” nulunum, ŋa-ptlum aṭi.
Fight-NEG-1pmREF/ say-1pem-3sn/ but-believe-NEG-3snABS now
There used to be a proverb that 'Skourenes don't fight Skourenes'... would that it were still true.
NOTE: nulunum in this case is “we wished to say it,” thus implying that, after a time, it wasn’t said.

Kuşḍermui eŋ aḷ-aiteŋuku.
Much-ennoble-3smREF city and-CAUS-stop-1pm-3sm
Some city will get too big for its breeches and need taking down.

Sintu ŋgoş kru-krekabab, ḷa-baslagum tebbeḍkuşlek.
Stab-3sm city-thy because-war-some/ and-lose-3sn-3sn empire-much-its
Your own city has come out on the wrong side of a war or two, and perhaps lost a good deal of its colonial empire.

Ŋa-pgomum ḍusṭaş Skouras iddoadmi, ḷa-nilḍşinum ḍusṭaş.
But-conquer-NEG-3pm-3sn never Skouras ERG-foreigners/ and-can-see-NEG-2sm-3sn never
Skouras has never been conquered by foreigners, however, and it's hard to see that it ever could be.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:45 pm
Posts: 516
I like this text, I should something of the like for my Vrkhazhians:
If you're Vrkhazhian...

ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
Very kind! I'm just the translator, mind, and not the best at it either. But it would be interesting to see the Vrkhazhian Culture Test...

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
First one of the year! One of these days I'm going to have to make a dictionary for the mock-words I make...

Because-this fraternal-IMP-DUR-2sm-3sf mother-other-2smPOS
Why you’d better get along with your mother-in-law

Amelongog “other mother; mother-in-law”
Gşiurra “government posting”
Klatali “bedroom”
Nosesuŋeka “business (working for money)”
Ŋriutta “trading expedition”
Sliutta “act of washing”

Belladim nen-nosesuŋekagog etusenar ibbsopa.
Arrange-3pa-3pnA like-business-other marriage-PL ERG-bsepa-PL
Marriage, like any business of importance, is arranged between the bsepas.

Ḍḷnum ḍirakuş etusena, ŋa-bungauşitut nen-bsepagoş.
Ease-NEG-3sn many.hours marriage / but-almost-love-INC-3sm-3sf like-bsepa-2smGEN
It takes time to get used to being married, but you end up loving the person almost as much as your own relatives.

Benku bsepaisat muraṭi,
Stay-3sm bsepa-GEN-3sfPOS before-now /
In the old days, a man joined his wife's bsepa.

Aŋ-inaiḍarḷaḍu tosnisi molnim anakti inneru bsepaisan ŋiraş.
But-CAUS-bring-ATT-3sa-3sm wife-GEN son first toward-ATT-3pmA bsepa-GEN-3smGEN money
These days a firstborn son may bring his wife into his own bsepa instead-- at least, if his is richer.
NOTE: Literally, “Money tries to cause a first son to bring his wife [as] they go toward his bsepa.”

Intsnit tosnisi ŋapeson, ŋa-danomit atesogo ŋanenoko.
Marry-NEG-ATT-CYC-3sm-3pf wife-PL ERG-man / but-make.love-DES-3pm-3pf burlesque-PL ERG-cheater-PL
A man can only have one wife; but some men-- lucky bastards-- can support a mistress or two.

Tesonut ameşoḍ ŋapesono ḍog doŋu plagaliu ḷa-basgit.
Marry-3pm-3sf woman ERG-man-PL two live.in-3pmE colony-GENPL and-lack-3pfA
In colonies, where the supply of women is low, a woman is sometimes married to two men.
Ironically for such a statement, the woman marrying the two men has little importance in the sentence.

Ŋredinmiri apesono şiu-krekadim kla-ŋriutta.
Wrongly-make.love-3pmR man-PL without-war-long or-trade.expedition
It's not really right for men to sleep with other men, outside of special circumstances like a long campaign or a trading expedition.

Ŋa-mḍrumeli ṭaldoḷ, nsul-aimslapep noḷḷagu.
But-whole-NEG-3sn world / therefore-worry-NEG-3sa-1pe inside-3saE
But it's an impure world, and what happens behind closed doors is the least of our worries.

Baunealidum baunledai.
Name-HAB-2sm-3sm name-GEN
You call a person by his name.

Ṣoadoma iddoadmi baunledaukuş, aḷ-inaisaṭoşa bogimi.
Confuse-MET-HAB-3pm-2sm ERG-foreigners name-GENPL-many / and-ATT-CAUS-guess-3pm-2sm which-n-GEN
Foreigners make this complicated by having multiple names and making you guess which one to use.

Ṣampi tosgimi daraŋi greḍai şiu-sliuttai.
Accept-3pmA nude.person-PL locative-HAB-3pmA house-GEN except-wash-GEN
Nudity is best indulged at home-- except when bathing, of course.

Seirrotim sortimil aksunaroi aḷ-ḍirişronim milanasir.
Wear-CYC-3pf-3pn outfit-DEFPL Axunemi-GEN and-show-CYC-3pf-3pn breast-PL-3pfGEN
Some women like to dress in the shameless Axunemi fashion, showing their breasts.

Aipiŋirirḷoni laŋiki irrubnakalir klataliu.
CAUS-un-own-CYC-3pa-3pm stranger-PL ERG-inn-PL bedroom-GENPL
There are houses (rubnakalir) that will rent a room to a stranger.

Ŋa-bunka utaḍa ḍodi kaḷ-aḍedoti, kru-daŋum bsepal tebbeḍi eŋigoş ḷa-eŋugog skourand.
But-stay-INT-2smA with-INT-2smA brother-GEN or-mate-GEN / because-live-3snA bsepa-DEF empire-GEN city-GEN-2smGEN and-city-GENPL-other Skourene
It's better to stay with a friend or relative, though; through the bsepa you'll have some anywhere in your city's empire and sometimes elsewhere in Skouras.

Pumuŋrḷota ippliunnar aḷ-iŋŋliussar.
Help-trade-IMP-3pa-2sm ERG-gift-PL and-ERG-meal-PL
Whatever sort of business you have, gifts and meals will help it along.

Ŋa-ŋrekmopim ekpasurekar akasni kaḷ-eḍunesa gşiurraul.
But-false-expect-3pm-3pn vice-PL hear-ABSPART or-rich.becoming government-DEFGENPL
But it's going a little too far when people expect to have their vices satiated, or get rich at official posts.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:04 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
One slight question: in ordering the elements of a word with two suffixes, say -kuş with the genitive plural suffix...which one comes first? I.e. if I were to say "of many stars", would the order be maḍaŋ-kuş-u, or maḍaŋ-u-kuş?

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 3377
Location: In the den
You form the genitive first, then add the quantifier suffix.

 Post subject: Re: Old Skourene As Well
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 152
Thank you!

Hear-IMP-1sm-3sn music five-sound
Give me that old five-tone music

Aidarokag “bagpipe (we want to make you cry)”
Aiḷarḷadeg “rhythm (it continuously causes us to dance)”
Ainudpu “doctor (he intends to cause liveliness)”
Apemod “helper, worker”
Bimriuṭiŋŋa “pentatonic (five-sound)”
Ḍeḷn “to make easy” (-ḷin)
Kirrapun “animal horn” (Jeori kîrrəpwən, Wede:i kurrukwen)
Kpaişşgel “arrogant (mistakenly proud)”
Kusŋarḷatu “it trades better; trading concern”
Mipun “string” (Jeori mîpwənîś, Wede:i mikweniś)
Mipunded “sitar (three strings)”
Mraḍali “hermitage (lonely place)”
Msanreŋŋer “reed pipe (grass flute)”
Nosḍairḍanu “bank (it wants to cyclically hold money)”
Pamkiriruku “army (we help to fight from time to time)”
Psanriuṭiŋŋa “decaphonic (ten-sound)”
Reŋŋer “flute (singing device)”
Riŋṭaka “rye beer” (Jeori rîŋčəkə)
Riuṭiŋŋa “note, pitch” (riuŋŋa “song”+DIM)
Seirḍum “drum (it is cyclically beaten)”
Teḷsorḍim “tamborine (thing beaten by hand)”
Umagami “fool (chewed in the head)”

Dauptilum ŋiraş şiu-nilam, innosbairiḍum aŋ-inaiŋrişum.
Wholly-trust-NEG-HAB-2sm-3sn money except-gold / ATT-money-save-CYC-2sm-3sn but-ATT-CAUS-buy-NEG-2sm-3sn
The only money you entirely trust is gold, but it's more for saving than for buying things.
NOTE: The second part of the sentence should run “you try to save it, but try to not cause it to buy things.”

Aiŋarişim nosimbiki kla-ṭlopal nosḍairḍanui.
CAUS-buy-2sm-3pn coin-silver-PL or-document-DEFPL bank-GEN
For that, you use silver coins, or promissory notes from a bank.

Ḍeḷḷanum nosesuŋeka ebbsepagoş, kru-tararouṭum ḍusdoḷ, ḷa-patili apemodo ḷa-nosepumeda.
Easy.make-3sa-3sn business ERG-bsepa-2smGEN / because-make-DES-HAB-1p-3sn every.day / and-trust-2sm-3pm helper-PL and-money-help
The simplest way to run a business is within your own family or bsepa--there's a tradition for it, trustworthy workers, and financial help.

Ŋa-nilaipamidi bsipi kla-nilpamidum kusŋarḷaturoḍ boslagu ḍodo aŋ-uḍedasṭas.
But-ABIL-CAUS-help-2sm-3pm clan-NEG-2sm-3pm or-ABIL-help-2sm-3sn trading.concern-large lack-MET-3sa brother-PL but-solidarity-not
But you can have a family firm with nonfamily employees, or work for a large concern that has lost any family character (though in many ways it acts like a bsepa).

Aṭi-basgum şketa udimum riŋṭaka aḍari boḍimuḷ.
When-lack-3sn wine drink-INT-2sm-3sn rye.beer rotten westerner-GENDEFPL
If there's no wine available, you'll consent to swig down some of the westerners' foul rye beer.

Gitlorum uraŋas isseirḍumu aḷ-ikirrapunu aḷ-irreŋŋere aḷ-immipundede, ḷa-kaḷşum psanriuṭiŋŋau ḷa-aiḷarḷadegkuşu.
Create-3pa-3sn music ERG-drum-PL and-ERG-horn-PL and-ERG-flute-PL and-ERG-sitar-PL / and-have-3sn ten.note-GENPL and-rhythm-many-GENPL
Music is decaphonic and polyrhythmic, based mostly on drums, horns, wooden flutes, and sitars.

Ŋa-sairikum uraŋas guşouriril ḷa-kaḷşum bimriuṭiŋŋau aḷ-aiḷarḷadeguḷin ge-gitlorum immsanreŋŋer aḷ-ŋaidarokaga.
But-enjoy-2sm-3sn music hinterland-GENDEF and-have-3sn five.note-GENPL and-rhythm-GENPL-easy TOPIC-create-3pa-3sn ERG-grass.pipe-PL and-ERG-bagpipes-PL
But there's an undeniable charm to country music, with its pentatonic scale, simple rhythms, and reliance on reed pipes and bagpipes.

Kirla nsul-mepomoda aḷ-ŋrenosḍaroḍa aḷ-koarla ŋainudpur inneke.
Sick-2sm therefore-false.help-3pm-2sm and-wrong.money.acquire-3pm-2sm and-sick-DUR-2sm ERG-doctor-PL cheat-ERGPART
If you're sick, there are people who will do disagreeable things to you and charge you for it and leave you just as sick.
NOTE: It should technically be innneke, but I really wasn’t certain of the general policies on triple consonants.

Daunta mraḍaliri ṭom-uŋeḍa ḷa-sultui udaŋui ksaslataliri aḷ-slatalirikt ḷa-teḷḷunda.
Go-DES-2sm hermitage-GEN purpose-rest-INT-2sm and-wash-INT-2smR locative-INT-2smR hot.bath-GEN and-bath-GEN-cold and massage-INT-2sm
Better to go to a hermitage for rest, steam and cold water baths, and massage.

Ukiriku ŋeŋand pamkirirukui aṭi-kirkum eŋgoş kla-minkirkim oŋ kpaişşgele.
Fight-IMP-CYC-2smE ERG-city.dweller army-GEN when-attack-3sn city-2smGEN or-back.attack-3pn city-PL arrogant-PL
As a citizen, you have the right and obligation to serve in the army, when your city is attacked or when arrogant outside cities need to be punished.

Srkum şiu-ŋumagami, aŋ-udirşeg.
Enjoy-NEG-3sn except-fool / but-unite-IMP-CYC-1pm
Only a crazy person actually likes it, but it's got to be done.

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