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 Post subject: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 8:13 am 
Lebom
Lebom

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I can't seem to keep still, really...just one question, though: how would one say "one might do X" in Kebreni? I know the volitive works for intentions, but what about for choices, if the first choice is expressed in another sentence?


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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 7:28 am 
Lebom
Lebom

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Deedle-deedle-dee, and a fee-fie-foe...


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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:04 am 
Visanom
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Something like "-te maru" could be an easy way to do it, in effect saying "Doing-X is possible."

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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 4:25 pm 
Smeric
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I think you need to be clear about what you mean by might. Are you saying you intend to do something, or it's merely a possibility? I don't think Kebreni offers you a choice with exactly the same semantic range of might, which I think is one of the more ambiguous English modals.

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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 5:36 pm 
Boardlord
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In isolation ("I might go to Kebropol"), the intentive is all you need. It's more of an English thing that we want to make distinctions between strong and weak intentions.

Yiuel's suggestion of maru is also good. We often use "may/might" directly for possibility, and that's maru. Possibility overlaps with intention anyway.

It sounds like you want an explicit contrast with a more preferred choice— e.g. "I'm going to Kebropol, but I might stop off at Lädau." In that case I'd suggest the benefactive of maru, i.e. meri— literally, "it's possible for me".

To be even fussier, you could use an expression like yźeunte maru— literally "possibly wanting to go"— but that's probably excessive.


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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 7:15 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

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Thank you all! I think I'll stick with -te maru for this one, but I should like it if someone checked. The main work will be up shortly!


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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:27 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
But first, a list of extra vocabulary (there's still more to come, but this should hold for now). I hope these work as neologisms!

Bedel “portrait” (Verdurian behdel)
Breni “thing looked at; style, type”
Diera “[thing] worked on, design” (from diru “work”)
Elege “shoe, sandal” (from legu “cover a small part”)
Febu “paint” (Caďinor fauban, Meťaiun faubu)
Fevgu “picture” (from febu “paint”)
Handyr “soft, skinlike” (from hada “skin”)
Kamanu “reveal” (from kanu “see”)
Keguh “flash” (Meťaiun koigoγ “quick-fire”)
Keguhy “to flash, flicker” (back-derivation from keguh)
Legu “cover a small part” (Meťaiun lieg)
Munizul “fancy” (Verdurian)
Nuny “be young; be born, originate; give birth” (Meťaiun, same root as nen and nyne)
Paiźa “cut, slit” (from paźu “cut”)
Panźyrau “strip, cutting, piece” (from paźu “cut”)
Pokeḣ “boot” (Meťaiun pokeȟ “foot-nom.”)
Sudaida “robe” (Caďinor sutanda)
Sype “hat” (Ismain sype)
Śami “shirt, blouse” (Ismain şami)
Ťan “wool” (Caďinor ďannos)
Ťannyr “velvet” (having the quality of ťan)
Vanau “governance, office” (from vanu “govern”)
Vekrugu “appearance, representation; assumed form” (From Meťaiun veȟkrugo)
Zen “sign, symbol” (Caďinor zennos)
Zun “year” (Meťaiun zon, Caďinor zonnos)
Źegu “tie, tighten; fit” (Meť. jeku, same root as źega)

Verdurate eḣc Verdura śaunte hamate neḣat ga śin sogu źem źem hynnu gente:
Verduria-of and Verduria surrounding nation-of man or woman wear old old cloth this
The prototypical clothing of Verduria and nearby states varies by sex:

Neḣat sogu hend (śami) eḣc bröka (śeveḣka),
Man wear hend (shirt) and bröca (leggings)
A shirt (hend) and trousers (bröca) for men

Śin sogu kyole (oraigu) ga hendana nilneai (śami sokoai).
Woman wear kyole (tunic) or hendana nilne-BOTH shirt skirt-BOTH
Either a dress (kyole) or blouse + skirt (hendana + nilne) for women

Šin memu mova eḣc neḣat paźu mova.
Woman grow hair and men cut hair
Hair is generally worn long by women, short by men.

Brenite veťe kunte kursu pema digynzun brynu;
Style-of beard much-of change during hundred-year before
The styles for facial hair have varied greatly over the last few centuries;

Agyryru kunte źaite heź yzbrerynu bedelte melaḣ.
Know-POL-VOL-IMP much-of subject if see-VOL-POL-IMP portrait-of king
See the portraits of the kings for an idea of this.

Źada uverete linna veťe fuuste.
Now fashion-of lord beard without-of.
At present the aristocratic style is to be clean-shaven.

LINNA
Noble
Nobles

Śin sogu hynnute seťa ga ťannyr śaidate źeiga sutana (sudaida) mieta kamante hendana nilneai (śami sokoai) paiźa;
Woman wear cloth-of silk or beautiful-of fitted sutana (robe) having slit see-CAUS-of hendana nilne-BOTH (shirt skirt-BOTH)
The woman wears a fitted sutana (robe) of a rich fabric such as silk or velvet, with slits that display her hendana and nilne (blouse and skirt);

Źe socte maru kyole (oraigu) ga kyolete kur, eban paźu śete kamanuai zivan.
Also wear-SUB possible kyole (tunic) or kyole-of two / outer cut small-SUB make-see-also inner
She might also have chosen a kyole (dress) or even two of them, the upper cut to reveal flashes of the lower.

Orat pounte sogu lanika (povan) bresai, panźyraute hynnu źeiga śylnu śaunte.
All under-SUB wear lanika (slip) bres-also (strip-SUB cloth fit-PART breast around)
Underneath everything she wears a lanika or slip as well as a bres, a strip of cloth wrapped around the breasts.

Sogu calseo (elege) eḣc ševeza (śeveḣka).
Wear calseo (shoe) and ševeza stocking
She wears shoes (calseoi) and ševeza (short stockings).

Neḣat sogu taisa pauto hend (śami) dyunte eḣc śeveḣka.
Man wear make-PART jacket over-SUB and stocking
The man is wearing a tailored pauto (jacket) over a shirt (hend) and a ševesca, literally ‘stockings’— hose or tights.

Sogu kumpa (pokeḣ), kurite ceuste elegete neḣat zaru.
Wear kumpa (boot)/ despite that shoe-SUB man exist
He wears boots (kumpî), though there are also shoes for men.

Źe socte śeu lanika.
Also wear-SUB short-AUG lanika
He may also wear a shorter lanika.

Gintro (ḣiitiru) sudy zente vanau;
Gintro (sash) be.called symbol-SUB office
The sash (gintro) is a symbol of office;

Vekructe kaťynyr ȟenila eupte nuny.
Representation-SUB Caďinorian ȟenila from-SUB birth
It developed as a representation of the Caďinorian ȟenila.

Socte źecte maru pauto dyunte, ga hynte maru diera ziunte Melaḣ Andreate sudaida vekurte.
Wear-SUB or link-SUB or weave possibility pauto over-SUB/or weave-SUB possibility design inside-SUB Queen Andrea-SUB robe like-SUB
It may be worn over the pauto, or attached to it, or even incorporated symbolically into its design, as in the robe worn by queen Andrea.

Neḣat śinai sogu handyr munizul šapa (sype).
Man woman-also soft fancy
Both wear soft, fancy hats (šapî).


Last edited by Pedant on Fri May 29, 2015 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:32 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
A note here: there are a number of words which, based on depictions of Met'aiun clothing, I gave translations from the ancestral language, or a new derivation to replace the old, even though they weren't actually mentioned. I find it hard to believe, for example, that the Met'aiun did not have a word for "boot" when their soldiers clearly wore them. Thus, the word pokeȟ is applied, with a Kebreni form as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 6:46 am 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
One more question: I'm trying to derive a word from Met'aiun, but the double vowels are throwing me off a bit. I understand the -iCa/-eCa participle formation dates back to the older language, but how does that work when the root has two vowels, like γeun-? Would the word "woven" be γeuina, γeina, or γuina (Kebreni hyina, heina, and huina respectively)?
Also, as a side note, is there a reason the word for seaweed is boźuna, not **bośuna? From a rural dialect?


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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 8:44 am 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
I fear I decided on hyina. I hope I am not incorrect. Vocabulary first!

Dur “worker, peasant” (Meťaiun duri)
Hadaśuna “cotton” (Meťaiun γatačuna “skin-plant”)
Gadod “thin, narrow” (Meťaiun gatodri “not-thick”) (EDITED from **gatod)
Ebgoru (Meťaiun epgoru “to move away from thickness”)
Hyina “linen” (Meťaiun γeuina)
Hynśuna “flax, linen” (Meťaiun γeunčuna “weaving plant”)
Kalca “shoe” (Meťaiun kalkio, Caďinor calceio)
Lanil “linen” (Ismain lânile)
Miźengu “rope” (Meťaiun miejengu)
Palte “coat, vest” (Ismaîn pałte)
Pliku “copy, imitate” (Meťaiun pliku, Caďinor plican)
Soiga “worn, worn-out” (from sogu “wear”)
Śemangiḣ “rope, cord” (see śemangu)
Śemangu “[fishing] net” (from śemamu “to fish”)

DUR
Worker
Peasants

Śin sogu lanilte śami eḣc ḣir soko;
Woman wear linen-SUB shirt and long skirt
The woman wears a linen blouse and long skirt;
NOTE: a word for “linen”, namely hyina, is still used in Kebreni, at least formally (thus a linen-maker’s establishment is a hyinarei, as distinct from a hynarei or weaving-shop, which can provide all sorts of material). Informally, however, the word lanil (from Ismaîn lânile) is used, and this is becoming more popular as time goes on.

Neḣatte źeiga miźengu miutte bröca (śeveḣka) eḣc hadaśunate śami.
Man-SUB tied rope using-SUB legging and cotton-SUB shirt
The man has trousers (bröca) fastened with cord, and a cotton shirt.

Neḣat sogu kalca eḣc śin sogu tacil (elege).
Man wear and shoe woman wear tacil (shoe)
The man wears shoes, the woman sandals (tacilî).
NOTE: Footwear come in three different types for the Kebreni. The heaviest is the pokeḣ, the boot, which is worn by soldiers and farmers. Next is the kalca, from the Caďinorian calceio, which is lighter than a boot but still firm (usually cloth, often made of leather as well); one may compare them to slippers. Finally, there is the elege, thin sandals that are actually closer in make to the original calceioi; these are for walking or trekking in the sun, or simply for home wear. (It is considered rude to walk barefoot in a house; extra pairs of elege are often provided by the host, or visitors bring their own.)

Nilne pounte bumiriu śin socte maru lanika ga źeźem soko;
Nilne under-SUB not-rich woman wear-SUB possible lanika or old-old skirt
Underneath the nilne poor women may wear a lanika or simply an older skirt;

Biha sogu bres.
Few wear bres
They rarely wear bresî.
NOTE: Literally, “few [of them] wear bresî”.

Neḣat śinai sogu linnate pauto vekurte sambrake (palte).
Man woman-also wear noble-SUB pauto as-SUB sambrake (vest)
Both wear leather vests ([i/]sambrakî[i]), which can be considered imitations of the nobles’ pautoi.


Last edited by Pedant on Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:11 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
I really shouldn't be asking these...but I'm trying to find a word for "helmet" in Kebreni (or, better yet, in Met'aiun to work through Kebreni). I don't want to use a borrowing from Cuêzi or Cad'inor, largely because the image of Met'aiun clothing shows the soldier actually wearing a helmet. (The word I have for "armour" derives from "wood", since the original armour was, well, made of wood.) I thought about using a word for "bronze", "tin", or "copper", but the Met'aiun language doesn't have either tin or copper as far as I know, and bronze was borrowed from Cuêzi. So what do you think? Should I take it easy and stick to the safer, other-language route?
It would all be so much easier if one could date the portraits...


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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:30 am 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
I think I've got a word: kotnu, from koto (modern kodu), also "shell". Still...


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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:44 am 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
And I'm done! Let me know what you think overall!

Anelota “chain-mail” (Verdurian)
Dynlignu “headcover” (Meťaiun diunlignu “top-cover tool”)
Dynneḣat “head” (Meťaiun diunneȟad “top-man”)
Eḣpikeḣ “bulky” (Caďinor espices “thick”)
Falaḣ “private” (Caďinor falaȟ “soldier”)
Ḣirau “line” (Meťaiun giradio “long thing”)
Kotnu “shell; helmet” (Meťaiun kot-no “snail-object”)
Leidi “armor” (Meťaiun leidi “wood-collective”, from leita “wood”)
Nezinu “translate” (calque from Verdurian celmetan “between-put”; here “through-put”)
Pocaťanate “infantry” [I might discard this for a simpler aťana at some point]
Ponau “under-object; hole” (from ponu “under”)
Sca “neck” (Meťaiun skia, Caďinor sceia)
Śeuś “collar, helm” (Verdurian šeyoš)
Ugur “squash, cucumber” (Caďinor ugor “squash”)
Zinu “be in, on; put/place in, on”
Źeknu “chain” (Meťaiun jekno “link-object”)

BOŤENEU
Soldier
Soldier

Boťeneu sogu lisudaḣ gunë (leidi) eḣc casi (kotnu).
Soldier wear steel-made.of gunë (armor) and casi (helmet)
The soldier wears steel armor (gunë) and helmet (casi).

Anelotte akežë (śeuś) sobu kotnu eupte śamai sca.
Chain.mail-SUB akežë (collar) extend helmet from-SUB around-both neck
A chain-mail (anelota) helm (akežë) extends from the helmet, protecting the neck.

Got śeveḣka sudy ogorék, neziunte ugur;
Thick leggings called ogorék/ translate-SUB squash
His bulky knickerbockers are known as ogorekî, literally ‘cucumbers’;

Gente lahu anelota śeveḣka pounte eupte.
This-SUB come chain.mail leggings under-SUB from-SUB
This derived from wearing chain-mail leggings underneath.
NOTE: Apply “This-SUB [come chain.mail [leggings under-SUB] from-SUB]”. Hope the syntax is okay.

Biha neḣatte sognu pliku aťanate breni.
Some man-SUB wear-object copy army-SUB style
Some formal menswear imitates the military style.

Kyr eḣc śiru ḣirau sudy feterate Verdurate pocaťanate voyak (falaḣ).
Green and white line name province-SUB Verduria-SUB foot-army-SUB voyak (private)
His green and white stripes identify him as a voyak or private in the infantry of Verduria province.


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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:07 am 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
Actually, this is strictly unrelated, but what is emur exactly? Is it a Verdurian word?


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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:14 pm 
Boardlord
Boardlord

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
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Yes, it's a silver alloy, mostly with tin. (However, I can't reconstruct at the moment why it includes tin! Probably there's lots of tin in Eretald.)


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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:18 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:03 pm
Posts: 490
And tin's another white metal, so it wouldn't "dilute" the color of the silver as badly.

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 Post subject: Re: Verdureute Hynnu
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:51 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am
Posts: 149
I suppose so. But without a separate word for "tin"? Could be tricky, unless that's the only way to find it.


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