zompist bboard

Does anyone know if there are any more constructed worlds out there on the web that are of the scale of Almea? I've looked and not been able to find one quite like it. I found a world called Khoras, which has a lot of detail, but very little language stuff, and I don't really like the organization too much. Anyone else found anything?

I've got an ongoing one.

so far, a few maps and an ongoing grammar. It's a lot deeper than it looks, but most of the stuff is still in my mind...

but I'll be updating it.

Hey I just visited your site! It was very good, but not yet on the Scale of Almea. It should turn out good though.

I would like to make a world on the scale of Almea. But I have been working on my first language, Pardish, for five years now and gotten nowhere. I think it is because I am just way too perfectionist. Oh well, maybe someday soon.

As for languages, the progress on mine was sluggish for years... (lack of ideas, basically), until I decided to make it weird. Basically, I decided not to let it become similar to any language, anywhere. Although that's not exactly a realistic goal, tt's been turning out great so far.

Perhaps you can do the same. It gets very interesting.

ranskaldan wrote:As for languages, the progress on mine was sluggish for years... (lack of ideas, basically), until I decided to make it weird. Basically, I decided not to let it become similar to any language, anywhere. Although that's not exactly a realistic goal, tt's been turning out great so far.

Perhaps you can do the same. It gets very interesting.

Good point--I should give that a shot. My current embryonic languages draw so many elements from existing

Whoops--I got interrupted while using another computer. Let's start over:

ranskaldan wrote:As for languages, the progress on mine was sluggish for years... (lack of ideas, basically), until I decided to make it weird. Basically, I decided not to let it become similar to any language, anywhere. Although that's not exactly a realistic goal, tt's been turning out great so far.

Perhaps you can do the same. It gets very interesting.

Good point--I should give that a shot. My current embryonic languages draw so many elements from existing Earthly languages (and cultures), albeit non-IE ones, that the result just isn't terribly interesting.
Time to weird them up. )

And yes, I know that "weird" usually isn't a verb in English (except in the American comic strip Calvin & Hobbes, in which the characters once held a discussion on the topic of turning nouns into verbs, concluding that "verbing weirds language."

Say...anyone know a language where "weird" is a verb?

p@,
Glenn

Glenn wrote:Say...anyone know a language where "weird" is a verb?

Lojban, perhaps... but then, it doesn't really distinguish between verbs and nouns. "selbri" are kind of like verbs but they can also be used like nouns if you put an article to them. So that's basically cheating.

Anonymous wrote:Say...anyone know a language where "weird" is a verb?

p@,
Glenn

not yet, but you just gave me an idea.

Glenn wrote:Say...anyone know a language where "weird" is a verb?

Many natlangs use intransitive verbs where we use some adjectives, though I can't think of an example for 'weird'. I'm thinking maybe Japanese... anyone know?

I'm sure there are languages with a transitive verb meaning "to cause to be weird". One of my conlangs does this:

nerotho "to be weird"
norethe "to become weird"
noreth?n "to cause (something) to be weird"; "to 'weird' (something)"

The derivation is regular (and really starts with neth- "to be normal").

Also, in English you sometimes get a similar verbal phrase:

"This is really weirding me out."

Which doesn't mean it's making me weird, it means it's making me uncomfortable.

Weird in Japanese is an "adjectival noun" -- has some properties of nouns and some of adjectives. So no, not a verb, although to say "I'm tired" you're literally saying "I tired"; lots of other examples of an English adjective being a Japanese verb, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

ShadA501 wrote:Does anyone know if there are any more constructed worlds out there on the web that are of the scale of Almea? I've looked and not been able to find one quite like it.

There's M.A.R. Barker's Tekumelwhich, while not as detailed as Almea in every respect, is pretty well realized. It has some detailed language descriptions (particularly of Tsolyani). Tekumel was/is the setting of the Empire of the Petal Throne RPG and two novels by Barker, which apparently were not as good as one might have hoped from the detailed world-building, and are long out of print. People do still do the role-playing, apparently.

Tekumel looks pretty amazing! It's a bit like what I want my site to be like eventually, but so far my photoshop skills haven't reached that level

One day, far in the future, Myne site shall be of the callibre, the over-awing greatness, the gimungously complex Almaea of to-day. And, of course, Al-Shandur shall be of similar quality, but much sooner.

Monkey barrels.

I'm pretty sure Z qualifies as the most generous with his creativity. The amount of Almea stuff he posts without attempting to sell it is truly astonishing, and what sets Almea apart from even more detailed conworlds like Tekumel. (I also quite like Tekumel -- I'm fond of any conworld that dares to depart from the pseudo-European template -- though I do wish Barker was a little less smug about the whole thing.)

Aside from the level of detail, Almea is also set apart by its relative lack of reliance on high-fantasy motifs. Sure, it has wizards, magic, vestigially Tolkienesque "races" and so on -- but by now the level of research and detail that's gone into it means it could probably get by just as well without these things if Z were ever inclined to go that route. (Though the opportunities it affords for alien languages like Elkaril are fun!) I have to say I like that a lot. Though Almea started out as a gaming creation, it's well beyond that now, and it shows.

The only other online conworlds I can think of that are created in that kind of spirit -- more literary than gaming-oriented, and approaching a more "authentically" historical feel -- are Boudjwin Rempt's creations of Valdyas and Andal. They aren't as detailed (or at least, the details aren't online to the same extent), but they're quite sophisticated and intriguing, Andal in particular.

What are the URLs for those two you just mentioned, if I may ask?[/quote]

Here thou go: http://www.valdyas.org/

I, too, have romped through various on-line worlds, RPG and non, including Tekumel (impressive--I agree), Jorune (less impressive, but lots of alien diversity), and others--fantasy, SF, modern, historical, and just plain invented... I still have to admit that Almea is in a class of its own, at least as far as the wealth of material shared directly online.

Another commercial role-playing world that boasts of its detail is Harn, from Columbia Games. Harn is a bit unusual in that it embraces the pseudo-European/Tolkienesque setting with a twist--it actually tries to include some of the realistic European detail, such as the complexity of the feudal system, which most RPG worlds don't even attempt.

There's more, but I don't want to give all my secrets away...

In terms of private conworlds, Pablo Flores (whose link is in Mark's Language Construction Kit--he's moved his site, but all the forwards are in place) has one or two interesting ones--more restricted in time, space, and detail, but with lots of conlanging.

I too have looked at and enjoyed Andal and Valdyas, although I have been deprived of what I'm sure is some of the most interesting material by the fact that I don't know Dutch. I should make one correction, however--Andal is Boudjwin Rempt's world, but Valdyas was created by his wife Irina. Credit where credit is due, y'know.

p@,
Glenn

Try Ainu... it makes no distinction anywhere in the grammar between inchoative verbs (to become X) and stative verbs (to be X). This applies not only to adjectives, but even to the verb 'to be' = 'to become', ne. Thus Aynu ku-ne could equally mean 'I am Ainu' or 'I become Ainu'. (no tense either, I should add.) Unfortunately, I don't know if it has a word for 'weird'...

Glenn Kempf wrote:Credit where credit is due, y'know.

Yes, absolutely! Thanks for the correction... how embarrassing!

To drift just slightly off-topic for a bit and indulge my love of nitpicking -- ranskaldan mentioned his burgeoning conworld al-Shandur as a possible Almea alternate, and I went & had a look. So a question emerges:

You've divided the maps into "racial" and religious categories, but I'm not sure what you mean by "racial." Are these meant to be language groups or families, like those found in Z's Historical Atlas? If so, you're probably better off just calling them that -- it's a much different thing than "races," which is now out of fashion (for very good scientific reasons) as a way of describing and subdividing human populations. Can of worms and all that.

They're gorgeous maps, though. I've been labouring to produce maps of my own in Photoshop that don't look half that good... damn you...

ils wrote:You've divided the maps into "racial" and religious categories, but I'm not sure what you mean by "racial." Are these meant to be language groups or families, like those found in Z's Historical Atlas? If so, you're probably better off just calling them that -- it's a much different thing than "races," which is now out of fashion (for very good scientific reasons) as a way of describing and subdividing human populations. Can of worms and all that.

I can't speak for ranskaldan, but it appears that his "racial" colors match those for his language families and subfamilies, so I suspect that the division is linguistic--correct?

ils wrote:They're gorgeous maps, though. I've been labouring to produce maps of my own in Photoshop that don't look half that good... damn you...

I, too, would love to produce art like that...someday (*sigh*)

p@,
Glenn

Anonymous wrote:
Say...anyone know a language where "weird" is a verb?

p@,
Glenn

A year late, but:

English.

1. trans. To preordain by the decree of fate; esp. in pass. to be destined or divinely appointed to, into, or unto (with inf. or n.).
2. To assign to (a person) as his fate; to apportion as one's destiny or lot.
3. To warn or advise by the knowledge of coming fate.

The dictionary also mentions the somewhat... well, weird.... idea of "weirding peas - peas employed in divination".
And the charming quote: "Jock Din is to the yard right sly, To saw his wierdin piz. "

ShadA501 wrote:Does anyone know if there are any more constructed worlds out there on the web that are of the scale of Almea? I've looked and not been able to find one quite like it. I found a world called Khoras, which has a lot of detail, but very little language stuff, and I don't really like the organization too much. Anyone else found anything?

I'm working on it.

Salmoneus wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Say...anyone know a language where "weird" is a verb?

p@,
Glenn

A year late, but:

English.

1. trans. To preordain by the decree of fate; esp. in pass. to be destined or divinely appointed to, into, or unto (with inf. or n.).
2. To assign to (a person) as his fate; to apportion as one's destiny or lot.
3. To warn or advise by the knowledge of coming fate.

The dictionary also mentions the somewhat... well, weird.... idea of "weirding peas - peas employed in divination".
And the charming quote: "Jock Din is to the yard right sly, To saw his wierdin piz. "

Huzzah! One of my old guest-posts! A recent one, alas, but never mind.

I still love that quote, btw. "Jock din is to the yard right sly, To saw his wierdin piz". I must learn it.

Anonymous wrote:Say...anyone know a language where "weird" is a verb?

My current language has one such verb.

?qauloqz [Sqau."loX] v.t. - make odd, peculiar

ShadA501 wrote:Does anyone know if there are any more constructed worlds out there on the web that are of the scale of Almea? I've looked and not been able to find one quite like it. I found a world called Khoras, which has a lot of detail, but very little language stuff, and I don't really like the organization too much. Anyone else found anything?

Yes.