Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
WeepingElf wrote:102! What else to expect from a Romance language of Germany?
Um that's literally not possible, the highest possible score is 100 (55 one-point questions, 9 five-point questions). Yours got 90 by my calculations, but I could also be wrong.
There're only 54 one-point questions! (the 33rd question is numbered 34) This means the highest possible score is 99.
Trying my current project. I'm not entirely sure if I got the answers to some of these right, and I've erred towards more European.
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar 2. Phonemic voicing 3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series) 4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) 5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps) 6. Nasals at multiple POAs 7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs 8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) 9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops 10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) 11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes 12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics 13. No lateral obstruents 14. One phonemic rhotic *15. 5-7 POAs 16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern) *17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] 18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing 19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] 20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] *21. Three or more diphthongs 22. No non-low back unrounded vowels 23. One front rounded vowel. 24. Two or more front rounded vowels 25. No vowel harmony *26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) 27. More than three degrees of vowel height 28. Phonemic stress 29. No phonemic tone 30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed *31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic) 32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal) 34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop) *35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF 37. CLV syllables allowed 38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA. 39. CCCV syllables allowed 40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) 41. CCNV syllables not allowed 42. SNV syllables not allowed *43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants) *44. All words must include at least one vowel 45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes 46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants) 47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) 48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) 49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries *50. No more than two series of fricatives 51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony 52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all 53. Words can end in any consonant 54. Words can end in any vowel 55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA
The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above): S1. No initial velar nasal S2. No tone system with more than two tones S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) S5. No non-pulmonic consonants S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless S7. Phonemic voice distinction S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants
44!
Notes:
15. There are only four contrasting POAs, but the "back" POA groups uvular (nasal series) with glottal (stop and fricative).
17. Depends on analysis. You could see it as C(w, j) cluster, or palatalised and labialised series.
21. All diphthongs could be analysed as VL
26. Depends; Vr, or rhotic vowels.
31. If you analyse rhotic vowels as phonemic, then no.
35. Depends on liquid/rhotic/diphthong analysis.
43. & 44. Both depend on the analysis of vowels vs. semivowels (the native analysis has no vowels at all, and treats vowels as syllabic/nucleus semivowels).
50. See 17.
"It is quite certain, in particular, that I have always been insane." ~ Aleister Crowley
"Save us all from arrogant men/And all the causes they're for/I won't be righteous again/I'm not that sure any more." ~ Shades of Grey, Billy Joel
finlay wrote:good point, actually, how did no-one notice that before?
Because at the same time there's also a question that doesn't have a number, on the other hand. He did write 100 questions, he just didn't number them correctly.
EDIT: Hmm... weird. I looked at his post with the list again, and there are indeed 99 questions. I would've sworn there was a number-less question after question 36, in fact, I wrote it so in my analysis of Spanish/English/French/Chinese, where it apparently applied to all of them (they all have "1" in the chart). No idea what I could've seen then, huh... It's gets even weirder when I think that I did those analysis language-by-language, so I must've seen something after question 36 four times, for each language.
Tomina: This is actually supposed to have an SAE phonology, so...
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] 2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction] 3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series) 4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series]. 5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps) 6. Nasals at multiple POAs 7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] 8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions] 9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number] 10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops] 11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] 12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] 13. No lateral obstruants 14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA] 15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] 16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern) 17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] 18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing 19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] 20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] 21. Three or more diphthongs 22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels] 23. One front rounded vowel. 24. Two or more front rounded vowels 25. No vowel harmony 26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] 27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees] 28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress] 29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages] 30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed 31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic) 32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal) 34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop) 35. CVCC syllables allowed 36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] 37. CLV syllables allowed 38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA. 39. CCCV syllables allowed 40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) 41. CCNV syllables not allowed 42. SNV syllables not allowed 43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants) 44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel] 45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes 46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants) 47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates] 48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) 49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries 50. No more than two series of fricatives 51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony 52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all 53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] 54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] 55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA
The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above): S1. No initial velar nasal S2. No tone system with more than two tones S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides] S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) S5. No non-pulmonic consonants S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction] S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops] S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] 2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps) 6. Nasals at multiple POAs 7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] 8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions] # The fricative inventory is /s ɬ x h/. If I should bump this to a half-mark, please let me know. 9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops] 11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] 12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] 13. No lateral obstruants
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA] 15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] 21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels] 23. One front rounded vowel. # I'm assuming that if 24 is a yes, then 23 will be too. 24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] 27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees] 28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress] 29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages] 30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed # I'm tempted to give this one a half-mark because you'll really only find CVCC syllables in plurals or a possible borrowing. 36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) 41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed 43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants)
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes 46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants) 47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries # Geminates will only really occur in plurals and often simplify anyway. 50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony 52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all 53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA
The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above): S1. No initial velar nasal S2. No tone system with more than two tones S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction] S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]
Final score is 57.5/99 SAE. Not bad.
EDIT: Punctuation and adding the full language name.
Well obviously I couldn't calculate the score before I was able to answer all questions. (Someone should program a questionnaire that automatically calculates the score when you paste your phoneme inventory to it.) Inng is apparently 59,6% SAE now.
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] 2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction] 3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series) 4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series]. 5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps) 6. Nasals at multiple POAs 7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] 8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions] 9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number] 10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops] (I am counting ejectives as stops - aside from the one ejective fricative, which I count as a fricative - throughout this test. If that is wrong, let me know.) 11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] (36 of them.) 12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] 13. No lateral obstruants (No laterals at all, so yeah.) 14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA] 15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] 16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern) 17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] 18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing 19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] 20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] 21. Three or more diphthongs (There aren't any set diphthongs, but the language allows for extensive mix-and-match of its nine monophthong vowels into diphthongs) 22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels] 23. One front rounded vowel. 24. Two or more front rounded vowels 25. No vowel harmony (Giving myself a half-mark here because while this language doesn't strictly have vowel harmony, its adjacency rules are such that a given vowel cannot appear beside itself. For example, *imi is not allowed.) 26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] 27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees] 28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress] 29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages] 30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed 31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic) 32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal) 34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop) 35. CVCC syllables allowed 36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] 37. CLV syllables allowed 38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA. 39. CCCV syllables allowed 40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) 41. CCNV syllables not allowed 42. SNV syllables not allowed 43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants) (This language has no syllabic consonants.) 44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel] 45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes 46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants) 47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates] 48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) 49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries 50. No more than two series of fricatives 51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony (Half mark again because of adjacency rules.) 52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all 53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] 54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] 55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA
The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above): S1. No initial velar nasal S2. No tone system with more than two tones S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides] (CCV is not allowed.) S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) S5. No non-pulmonic consonants S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction] S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops] S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions]
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops]
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruants
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony (umlaut technically counts)
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees]
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
37. CLV syllables allowed (half-mark because not all are)
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) (sprjotta)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed (stnaður)
42. SNV syllables not allowed (pnaska)
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants)
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] (only /a i u/)
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA
The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal (ŋógur)
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]
For a Northern Scandinavian language with some minor Algoquin substratum influences, 53 isn't bad.
sano wrote:
To my dearest Darkgamma,
http://www.dazzlejunction.com/greetings/thanks/thank-you-bear.gif
Sincerely,
sano
My try with Aidisese. Haven't worked on it in a year or so, though I do have plans for doing a mild revamp of it. Scoring with this is based on both my most recent (but technically outdated) version of Aidisese and my current plans for Aidisese. Aidisese is supposed to be somewhat European though.
Aidisese
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] +0 2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction] +1 3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series) +0 4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series]. +1 5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps) +0 6. Nasals at multiple POAs +1 7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] +0.5 8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions] +0 9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number] +0 10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops] +1
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] +1 12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] +1 13. No lateral obstruants +1 14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA] +1 15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] +1 16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern) +1 17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] +0 18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing +0 19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] +0 20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] +0.5 21. Three or more diphthongs +0 22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels] +1 23. One front rounded vowel. +0 24. Two or more front rounded vowels +0 25. No vowel harmony +1 26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] +1 27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees] +0.5 28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress] +1 29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages] +1 30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed +1 31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic) +1 32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal) +1 34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop) +0 35. CVCC syllables allowed +0 36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] +1 37. CLV syllables allowed +1 38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA. +0.5 39. CCCV syllables allowed +1 40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) +1 41. CCNV syllables not allowed +1 42. SNV syllables not allowed +1 43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants) +1 44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel] +1 45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes +1 46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants) +1 47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates] +0 48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) +0 49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries +1 50. No more than two series of fricatives +0 51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony +0 52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all +0 53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] +0 54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] +1 55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA +1
The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above): S1. No initial velar nasal +0 S2. No tone system with more than two tones +5 S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides] +0 S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) +0 S5. No non-pulmonic consonants +5 S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless +5 S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction] +5 S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops] +2.5 S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal] +5
So...
Aidisese is 59/99 or ~59.59% SAE. Hmm. That percentage might be give or take ~5% depending on whether my calculations were correct and/or if I answered the questions correctly. Still, way better than I expected, given that Aidisese is purposely supposed to have some SAE flavor.
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar - ✔
2. Phonemic voicing - ✔
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series) - ✔
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) - ✔
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps) - ✔
6. Nasals at multiple POAs - ✔
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs - ✔
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) - ✔
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops - ✔
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) - ✔
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes - ✔
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics - ✘
13. No lateral obstruents - ✔
14. One phonemic rhotic - ✔
15. 5-7 POAs - ✔
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern) - ✔
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] - ✔
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing - ✔
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] - ✔
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] - H
21. Three or more diphthongs - ✘
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels - ✔
23. One front rounded vowel. - ✘
24. Two or more front rounded vowels - ✘
25. No vowel harmony - ✔
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) - ✘
27. More than three degrees of vowel height - ✘
28. Phonemic stress - ✘ (no stress because of the pitch accent)
29. No phonemic tone - ✘ (counting the pitch accent as tone)
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed - ✔
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic) - ✔
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal) - ✔
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop) - ✔
35. CVCC syllables allowed - ✔
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF - ✘
37. CLV syllables allowed - ✔
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA. - ✔
39. CCCV syllables allowed - ✔
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) - H (SSV syllables are allowed, cf. ptica "bird")
41. CCNV syllables not allowed - ✘
42. SNV syllables not allowed - ✘
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants) - ✘
44. All words must include at least one vowel - ✘
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes - ✔
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants) - ✔
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) - ✔
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) - H
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries - H (no distinction altogether)
50. No more than two series of fricatives - ✔
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony - H (5 vowels)
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all - ✔
53. Words can end in any consonant - ✔
54. Words can end in any vowel - ✔
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA - ✔
The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal - ✔
S2. No tone system with more than two tones - ✔
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides - ✔
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) - ✔ (30 vowels in total counting the pitch accent and length)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants - ✔
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless - ✔
S7. Phonemic voice distinction - ✔
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops - ✔
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants - ✘
hm I haven't done Proto-Hathic yet have I, or even figured out the inventory
pʰ pʷʰ tʰ cʰ kʰ p pʷ t tɬ c k ʔ (rounded labials vary with labial-velars)
b bʷ d ɟ g ɓ ɓʷ ɗ ʄ
m n ɲ ŋ
f fʷ s ɕ x ħ h
l ʎ ɭ j ɰ wʲ w
ʘh |h !h ǁh ǂh ʘ | ! ǁ ǂ nʘ n| n! nǁ nǂ
a ɛ ə ɔ e o i ɨ u + length + retroflexion
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] 2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction] 3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series) 4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series]. 5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps) 6. Nasals at multiple POAs 7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] 8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions] 9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number] 10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops] 11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] 12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] 13. No lateral obstruants 14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA] 15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] 16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern) 17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] 18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing 19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] 20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] 21. Three or more diphthongs 22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels] 23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels 25. No vowel harmony 26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] 27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees] 28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress] 29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages] 30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed 31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop) 35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed 40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed 43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants) 44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel] 45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes 46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants) 47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates] 48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) 49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries 50. No more than two series of fricatives 51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony 52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all 53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] 55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA
The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above): S1. No initial velar nasal S2. No tone system with more than two tones S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides] S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) S5. No non-pulmonic consonants S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction] S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops] S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]
For my latest, un-named (yet), Semitic-esque conlang:
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar 2. Phonemic voicing 3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present 4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone 5. At least two series with identical POA arrays 6. Nasals at multiple POAs 7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] 8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives 9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops 10. More non-stops than stops 11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] 12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics 13. No lateral obstruants 14. One phonemic rhotic 15. 5-7 POAs 16. No systematic double-articulation 17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA 18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing 19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind 20. 7 or more vowel qualities 21. Three or more diphthongs 22. No non-low back unrounded vowels 23. One front rounded vowel. 24. Two or more front rounded vowels 25. No vowel harmony 26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length 27. More than three degrees of vowel height 28. Phonemic stress 29. No phonemic tone 30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed 31. CVL syllables allowed 32. CVN syllables allowed 34. CVS syllables allowed 35. CVCC syllables allowed 36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF 37. CLV syllables allowed 38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. 39. CCCV syllables allowed 40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed 41. CCNV syllables not allowed 42. SNV syllables not allowed 43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position 44. All words must include at least one vowel 45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes 46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA 47. No more than four POAs for stops 48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ 49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries 50. No more than two series of fricatives 51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony 52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all 53. Words can end in any consonant 54. Words can end in any vowel 55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA
The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above): S1. No initial velar nasal S2. No tone system with more than two tones S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides S4. At least 10 vowels in total S5. No non-pulmonic consonants S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless S7. Phonemic voice distinction S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants
Not so sure about some of them (undeveloped morphology), but it seems to have (based on my best guesses) a score of 59%. Not bad.
Let's try Ti'eendörö. I''ve practically abandoned it, but I'm kind of interested as to how it scores on the test. Also, it was my first conlang that wasn't a cipher that I could do some proper translations in.
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA found at all POAs
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than stops
10. More non-stops than stops
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics
13. No lateral obstruants
14. One phonemic rhotic
15. 5-7 POAs
16. No systematic double-articulation
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind
20. 7 or more vowel qualities
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length.
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed
32. CVN syllables allowed
34. CVS syllables allowed
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed where C is not a glide or a liquid.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final position
44. All words must include at least one vowel
45. Affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA
47. No more than four POAs for stops
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant
54. Words can end in any vowel
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA
The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear where all Cs can be non-glides
S4. At least 10 vowels in total
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants
52.5/99
Not too bad.
Last edited by Haplogy on Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil!
Syllabic vowels consonants are vowels nonetheless. Just because we write <krk> or <prst> doesn't mean the <r> isn't in fact the vowel /r̩/
No, they are not. If you were right then no language would have words without vowels and that question would be completely and utterly pointless.
BTW, some Croatian prepositions can have no vowels, cf. s/sa "with", but they cliticize so they are not counted as separate words phonologically.
Syllabic vowels consonants are vowels nonetheless. Just because we write <krk> or <prst> doesn't mean the <r> isn't in fact the vowel /r̩/
No, they are not. If you were right then no language would have words without vowels and that question would be completely and utterly pointless.
BTW, some Croatian prepositions can have no vowels, cf. s/sa "with", but they cliticize so they are not counted as separate words phonologically.
Syllabic consonants still have the constriction that defines a consonant. Just because they are in the nucleus of the syllable doesn't change that.
That's circular reasoning: X must be true because Y would be pointless otherwise.
The fact is that this quiz is quite poorly designed. 99%+ of all languages have vowels, except for Nuxalk and maybe a few others. A lot of the other point questions are completely skewed also.
Just looking at the questions WALS can shed light upon, 1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar
true for 82.5% of languages 2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
true for 67.9% of languages 11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] 74.4% of languages have between 15 and 33 consonants 12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] 83.2% of languages have laterals 13. No lateral obstruants
true for 90.3% of languages 19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] 83.8% of languages have no ejectives, 86.8% lack implosives 20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] 83.5% of languages have 5 or more, about a third have seven or more 29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages] 58.2% of languages lack phonemic tone, 25.1% have just two tones 45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes 91.4% of languages have phonemic affricatives 52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all 50.1% of languages lack velar nasals S1. No initial velar nasal
true for 68.9% of languages S2. No tone system with more than two tones 83.3% of langs have between zero and two tones S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
true for 82.1% of languages
This quiz is completely useless for its intended purpose. It attempts to pass off global trends as SAE and would make you think half the stuff up here is something only Europeans do. I feel bad for the posters in here who are like "Oh, my language has 84 points on this quiz, gotta step up the featural diversity to counteract my europhonology privilege"... they've been bamboozled by this biased examination. If you design a lang to get a low score on this, you're not gonna get an average Asian, Australian, or African language; you'll get something that could only be spoken by the descendants of Ubykh and Salishan settlers in Matabeleland.
And I highly disagree that there is a objective difference between vowel and consonant; /x̣/ is another way of writing /ɐ/, /ḥ/ likewise /ə/, yet we don't claim that /ə/ or /ɐ/ are inherently consonants, which y'all do for /ṛ/ simply on the basis of orthography.
Last edited by R.Rusanov on Thu May 02, 2013 11:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
Yes, the quiz is badly designed. Yes, most languages have vowels. But claiming that some consonants = some vowels is just plain pushing a point too far. Vowels have no closure in their formation; consonants do. Syllabic l, for example, in the word 'bottle' (at least, how I pronounce it) has the tip of my tongue against the ridge behind my teeth; just as if I insert a schwa into the word. There is no inherent difference in production between syllabic and non-syllabic consonants, and you certainly wouldn't call a non-syllabic consonant a vowel. As an aside, my dictionary here gives this as a meaning of the word 'syllabic': Designating a consonant that forms a syllable without a vowel, as does the l in riddle.
To redesign the quiz, one should probably look at various features that a large proportion of European languages do or don't have, which a large proportion of non-European language don't or do have, respectively. That is, if lots of Euro-langs have feature X, lots of non-Euro-langs don't have feature X. I think that that was the original aim of the quiz anyway.
R.Rusanov wrote:...The fact is that this quiz is quite poorly designed. 99%+ of all languages have vowels, except for Nuxalk and maybe a few others.
Not to be a harpy, but Nuxalk does have vowels. All natural languages have them to the best of our knowledge, likely due to the fact that they make distinctions easy.
What nuxalk has gained some attentions for is disrupting what a syllable has been perceived to be by its novel usage of consonants. Yes, it does have many words and utterances that lack vowels, but the language does have vowels.
not having initial velar nasals or lateral obstruents or whatever doesn't automatically make your conlang look european. not having initial velar nasals or lateral obstruents and not having non-pulmonic consonants and having a lot of vowels and having almost exactly the syllable structure of english and not having tone and having no stops further back than velar does.
Nortaneous wrote:not having initial velar nasals or lateral obstruents or whatever doesn't automatically make your conlang look european. not having initial velar nasals or lateral obstruents and not having non-pulmonic consonants and having a lot of vowels and having almost exactly the syllable structure of english and not having tone and having no stops further back than velar does.
also stop saying 'privilege'
As of this post, there are only two instances of that word on this page.
My latest con-lang has no lateral consonants whatsoever, but indeed, it still doesn't look European.
