How to design a non-European phonology

[KathTheDragon]

rusanov keeps doing it and it keeps not making sense

Perhaps, but he's only said it once on that page, and it was in context. Your complaining IMO makes no sense.

[cromulant]

To redesign the quiz, one should probably look at various features that a large proportion of European languages do or don't have, which a large proportion of non-European language don't or do have, respectively. That is, if lots of Euro-langs have feature X, lots of non-Euro-langs don't have feature X. I think that that was the original aim of the quiz anyway.

It would be a very short quiz indeed if the questions were limited to diagnostic features of European languages. I don't think that's the point of the quiz at all.

What is the point? I didn't design the quiz, but I've been assuming the point is to determine typological distance from European languages.

What non-European languages do is utterly irrelevant to this goal.

[KathTheDragon]

I read the first few pages of the thread, and the impression I got was that the original quiz was very short (maybe a dozen questions), and that they were trying to only use things which are distinctly European, ie, Europe does it lots, everywhere else does it little.

[Hallow XIII]

rusanov keeps doing it and it keeps not making sense

Perhaps, but he's only said it once on that page, and it was in context. Your complaining IMO makes no sense.

If you knew personally what Rusanov is capable of doing to that word you wouldn't be protesting

[KathTheDragon]

If you say so...

[R.Rusanov]

I have used that word exactly twice in my life, at least on this forum. Which doesn't give y'all any right not to check it.

And Hallow, please don't think I did not notice that hastily deleted post of yours... if you want to be rude, don't be cowardly.

[Hallow XIII]

I deleted it because quite honestly I was wasting my time. I instead put you on my foe list.

[2+3 clusivity]

Okay, Okay. I'm not totally onboard with Rusanov and throwing around talk of privilege. he does, however, have some valid points about the quiz. I for one, perhaps through my own disconnect from the earlier part of the thread, have virtually no idea what most of the questions mean. Take for instance

3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Two parallel series? Series of what MOA, voicing, secondary articulations? Seriously, "series" could mean just about anything. Also you cannot say

Two and only two parallel series of phonemes . . . (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)

. Then you are not refering to "two" series. You are just looking for a jagged pattern of holes that could exist at every single POA.

4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed)
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)

Same issue.

6. Nasals at multiple POAs

I think this question is symptomatic of what Rusanov is getting at. Sure have more than one nasal is probably SAE, but at a certain point have 5 would clearly not be SAE.

7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs

Well this is just impossible for most MOAs. Obviously you cannot have trills or laterals at all POAs--velar trill anyone?

14. One phonemic rhotic

Rhotic? I think this is a poor definital use. Why not talk about non-bilabial trills, flaps/taps, and at most coronal approximants. Does the fricative trill fit in here?

16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)

This probably needs to distinguish between secondary atriculations such as palatalization and VOT adjustments like aspiration which are often considered "secondary articulations."

17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]

So if a language had a harsh voiced labiopalatalized "series" ONLY at the alveolar POA, it would be SAE? Is this trying to exclude labialized velars? If so, just say it.

18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing

Yea thats SAE . . . or is it? If its 'merely' a voicing contrast in nasals or laterals, I would think not.

25. No vowel harmony

This, while possibly true, seems out of place in the phonology section.

26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) - ✘

Etc.


I think these questions could be definitionally tightened up.

[KathTheDragon]

If you don't understand the questions, read the thread. I didn't get it until I found where these questions were introduced.

(3) By series, it means MOA.

(7) Hence the examples given.

(14) Your guess is as good as mine on that one.

(16) Co-articulation is a definite, IMO. Phonemic aspiration probably counts.

[Vuvuzela]

I'm going to assume that ejectives count as a different consonant phonation, and try to get a low score. Making this up as I go along:

/pʰ ʈʰ tʰ cʰ kʰ kʷʰ qʰ qʷʰ/
/p ʈ t c k kʷ q qʷ/
/t' ʈ' c' k' kʷ' q' qʷ'/
/m n ɳ ɲ ŋ ŋʷ/
/s x/
/w j/
/a i u/
/˦ ˧ ˨/

Syllable structure: CV

5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps) +1
6. Nasals at multiple POAs +2
[half mark if between 15 and 40]+2.5
13. No lateral obstruants+ 3.5
[half mark if at least 4 POAs] +4
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern) +5
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels +6
25. No vowel harmony +7
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] +8
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) +9
41. CCNV syllables not allowed+10
42. SNV syllables not allowed+11
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants)+12
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel+13
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)+14
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries +15
50. No more than two series of fricatives +16
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] +17

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
[2.5 marks if equal] +19.5
***
19.5

I think I could do better, but this language seems to get a low score without being something that could only possibly be a "descendant of Ubykh"

[finlay]

I have used that word exactly twice in my life, at least on this forum. Which doesn't give y'all any right not to check it.

get out

[Nortaneous]

catheter aviary by that logic if i post the word 'piss' and nothing but the word 'piss' exactly once in every thread on the board nobody should be able to complain at me about it in any thread because i only did it once in that particular thread

anyway the test was written by salmoneus and as such it smells of latin fish locked up in oxford for far too long. those questions were explained a while back in the thread but it's probably best to either edit it or throw the whole thing out. since i am lazy, but not too lazy, i will opt for the former

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

[Nortaneous]

and here is the result on New And Improved Test for english. bolding edits so i remember to put them in the first one

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels] (debatable but i'll count schwa)
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both] (depends on your analysis but)
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [disregarding /w/]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

English is 94.5% SAE

[Melteor]

durr

[Herr Dunkel]

SAH language:

- Has vowels
- Has consonants
- Uses tongue
- Uses the nasal cavity
- Uses voice
- Uses words
- Uses morphemes
- Has derivation
- Conjugates in any sense of the word
- Inflects in any sense of the word

Here you go, a test with ten points. Not all human languages have ten, but they usually have at least 8 or 9. The minimum is 1 (you cannot not use morphemes, really)
With sign languages, discard the first five points and count.

[KathTheDragon]

Redoing my Semitic-esque lang for the new test.

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops
10. More non-stops than stops
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic
15. 5-7 POAs
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind
20. 7 or more vowel qualities
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length.
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed
32. CVN syllables allowed
33. CVF syllables allowed
34. CVS syllables allowed
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted)
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides
S4. At least 10 vowels in total
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants

It now gains 45%. I like this test better.

[communistplot]

Vidurnaktese

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

28.5% am I doing it right? :0

[KathTheDragon]

Yes, you are doing it right. Of course, I am saying this without knowing your language's phonology, but I trust that you managed to mark the correct ones.

[Vuvuzela]

Ludlami, my tonal clicklang with pharyngealised consonants:
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [disregarding /w/]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives,
affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]
Is 45% SAE

[Nortaneous]

May as well run Hanheliubl through it again.

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress (pitch accent)
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages] (again, pitch accent)
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [disregarding /w/]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

55.5% SAE

Not surprising, but I was expecting higher.

[maıráí]

Unnamed Lang

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined I think?
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops Maybe.
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

59.5% SAE
I never bother making a language I can't pronounce with reasonable ease, so this is pretty expected.

[Vuvuzela]

Contemplating trying to make a new test altogether, for shits and giggles.
I'd figure out the following sub-categories of SAE:
Standard Average Romance (possibly broken down further into Standared Average Iberian, Standard Average Gaulish, Standard Average Italian), Standard Average Germanic (Possibly broken down into Standard Average West Germanicand Standard Average North Germanic) and Standard Average Slavic (unlikely to be broken down).
These would not be divided strictly on ancestry, but also on linguistic areas, so Basque could be Standard Average Romance in terms of phonology.

Then I'd take a few linguistic areas from outside Europe, say, Standard Average African, Standard Average Australian, Standard Average American, Standard Average Indian, Standard Average Polynesian and Standard Average Asian. Not because all of these groups are less diverse than Europe, but because if I get one of these groups' defining features wrong, the test loses a lot less accuracy than if I get SAE wrong.

What I'd attempt to do then is list a bunch of phonological features for each of these groups, and find out which crop of them will make all of the European groups score really high, and all of the Non-European groups score really low, and select those as the basis for a test.

BUT that sounds like a good deal of work, so I'll decide how much, if any, of my time I'd be willing to gruesomely murder with a project like this.

[KathTheDragon]

That does sound like a good idea.

[communistplot]

Yes, you are doing it right. Of course, I am saying this without knowing your language's phonology, but I trust that you managed to mark the correct ones.

Hah, I was being humourous with the "am I doing right", but it does accurately reflect this languages phonology.

[Nortaneous]

I never bother making a language I can't pronounce with reasonable ease, so this is pretty expected.

I wonder how Hathe does.

/t k ʔ/
/s ç h/
/m n ŋ/
/ʋ ð̞ ɾ j/
/a e o i ɨ u/
/ɛː ɒː ɨː ʊː/

I'm not sure if I want to analyze creaky and breathy voice as phonemic, but I won't here.

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] (the long vowels used to be RTR)
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress (pitch accent)
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [disregarding /w/]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

37.5% SAE