I don't know if I should lurk moar, but I just wanted some feedback on this idea of mine for my conlang, Selk. I don't know what else to call it.
So basically it's a pronoun that inflects for the person's name, rank, person, and whether they are present or not present. I haven't worked out the specifics yet, but the language will probably be very agglutinative.
"Synthetic Pronouns"
Re: "Synthetic Pronouns"
I'm not sure what you mean by inflecting for name.
Rank/politeness is certainly something that happens in natlangs. Check out Japanese pronouns for an example.
By person I'm assuming you mean the usual 1st-2nd-3rd distinction.
It doesn't seem particularly useful to me to distinguish whether someone is present, but go for it.
Rank/politeness is certainly something that happens in natlangs. Check out Japanese pronouns for an example.
By person I'm assuming you mean the usual 1st-2nd-3rd distinction.
It doesn't seem particularly useful to me to distinguish whether someone is present, but go for it.
After ordering a pint of his favorite ale, Robert was perplexed when the barmaid replied that the fishmonger was next door. The Great English Vowel Shift had begun.
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Eva-Beatrice
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Re: "Synthetic Pronouns"
I should have explained this more - my bad. A Selk is given a name at birth but it is very long and largely kept secret, and the full name is only known to a few members of that person's family. There are a lot of superstitions about names in this culture, hence the need to "abbreviate" names sometimes in pronouns.Kuro no Mori wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by inflecting for name.
That is correct.Kuro no Mori wrote:By person I'm assuming you mean the usual 1st-2nd-3rd distinction.
I thought it was an interesting distinction to have, since Selk culture also places a lot of emphasis on storytelling, and there's a difference between talking about a character who is being spoken about (but is not present) and, say, the audience.Kuro no Mori wrote:It doesn't seem particularly useful to me to distinguish whether someone is present, but go for it.
Thank you for the feedback, though
Re: "Synthetic Pronouns"
welllll
Halkomelem (a Salish language) has articles that distinguish whether something is in sight or not, so it's not that much of a stretch to imagine pronouns that distinguish someone present from someone elsewhere
Halkomelem (a Salish language) has articles that distinguish whether something is in sight or not, so it's not that much of a stretch to imagine pronouns that distinguish someone present from someone elsewhere
<Anaxandridas> How many artists do you know get paid?
<Anaxandridas> Seriously, name five.
<Anaxandridas> Seriously, name five.
Re: "Synthetic Pronouns"
It sounds mostly OK. My reservations are WRT the name bit.
So the pronouns are basically very short nicknames, which inflect for person and presence/absence? Well...then they arguably aren't pronouns, as they don't have purely deictic meaning. Though the person and presence/absence morphemes could be pronominal.
It honestly sounds a bit screwy. First of all, what if you don't know someone's name. How do you construct a pronoun then? Second of all: and if you do know their name, inserting it (even in shortened form) into the pronoun means moving your mouth more while adding no information that isn't already known. It seems uneconomic.
The present/absent distinction sounds fine, but obviously is inapplicable to first person, and probably second person. But it makes a lot of sense for 3rd person pronouns--which are often related to demonstratives, which can certainly contrast presence/absence.
So the pronouns are basically very short nicknames, which inflect for person and presence/absence? Well...then they arguably aren't pronouns, as they don't have purely deictic meaning. Though the person and presence/absence morphemes could be pronominal.
It honestly sounds a bit screwy. First of all, what if you don't know someone's name. How do you construct a pronoun then? Second of all: and if you do know their name, inserting it (even in shortened form) into the pronoun means moving your mouth more while adding no information that isn't already known. It seems uneconomic.
The present/absent distinction sounds fine, but obviously is inapplicable to first person, and probably second person. But it makes a lot of sense for 3rd person pronouns--which are often related to demonstratives, which can certainly contrast presence/absence.
Re: "Synthetic Pronouns"
If there are a great number of names, but all of them abbreviate into a very limited number of nicknames, then they would be somewhere between actual nouns and pronouns. Like "The J One" or "The M One" which is then inflected for rank, person, and proximity.