Nretyan Sound Change
Nretyan Sound Change
I'm not good at sound changing.
Would someone apply the sound changes they see fit to the following words?
Western Proto-Nretyan to Kutorenian:
Tzoi доы doi "I"
Nulos нулос nulos "We"
Ṗzes/Pzés бэс bʲes "You (singular)"
Ṗzesome/Pzésome бэсомэ bʲesome "You (plural)"
Cene хэнэ θene "He/She/It"
Cenome хэномэ θenome "They"
Vzestene вэстэнэ vestene "West/Western"
NOTE: These are not sound changes. They are the Roman spelling, the Cyrillic spelling, the pronunciation (which I want to be changed; I'll change the spelling), and the definition
Thank you.
Would someone apply the sound changes they see fit to the following words?
Western Proto-Nretyan to Kutorenian:
Tzoi доы doi "I"
Nulos нулос nulos "We"
Ṗzes/Pzés бэс bʲes "You (singular)"
Ṗzesome/Pzésome бэсомэ bʲesome "You (plural)"
Cene хэнэ θene "He/She/It"
Cenome хэномэ θenome "They"
Vzestene вэстэнэ vestene "West/Western"
NOTE: These are not sound changes. They are the Roman spelling, the Cyrillic spelling, the pronunciation (which I want to be changed; I'll change the spelling), and the definition
Thank you.
Last edited by rr on Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Nretyan Sound Change
It seems to differ mainly in spelling. Despite that the time-span seems to be like 0 to 200 years, not much more.
(And not, Finnish is weird and doesn't count.)
(And not, Finnish is weird and doesn't count.)
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
Re: Nretyan Sound Change
One thing I always enjoy doing is taking already existing sound changes (from say PIE to PGmc.) and applying them to my conlangs to see the outcome ![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Pleidiol Wyf I'm Gwlad
[pleːdjɒl ʊɨv im gʷlaːd]
[pleːdjɒl ʊɨv im gʷlaːd]
Re: Nretyan Sound Change
Those were the six pronouns and one adjective. I don't care about the spelling. The pronouns are agglutinative, -ome being the plural suffix. Also, those weren't progressive sound changes, they were multiple lexical entries. I've edited the post so it shows their definitions.
I'll add more words here:
Mit мыт mit "With"
Ṡe/Sé се sʲe "To Be"
Kirele кырэлэ kirele "To Write"
I'll add more words here:
Mit мыт mit "With"
Ṡe/Sé се sʲe "To Be"
Kirele кырэлэ kirele "To Write"
- Pogostick Man
- Avisaru
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Re: Nretyan Sound Change
Okay, let me try my hand at this…
doi "I"
nuls "We"
bʑes "You (singular)"
bʑezem "You (plural)"
ten "He/She/It"
tame "They"
vezne "West/Western"
mit "With"
ɕe "To Be"
tʃele "To Write"
- Delete second-syllable vowels (assuming "oi" is a diphthong or has diphthongized)
- θ > t
- Drop middle consonant of triconsonantal clusters
- Voice obstruents before nasals
- k > tʃ before front vowels
- Two nasals assimilate to the second
- rl > ll
- sʲ > ɕ
- bʲ > bʑ (I justify this by saying I saw something in a paper dealing with an outcome of *pʲ somewhere in, I think, Asia a while back)
- Vowels lower before geminates
- Geminates simplify
- An epenthetic echo vowel is inserted before syllabic resonants
doi "I"
nuls "We"
bʑes "You (singular)"
bʑezem "You (plural)"
ten "He/She/It"
tame "They"
vezne "West/Western"
mit "With"
ɕe "To Be"
tʃele "To Write"
- Delete second-syllable vowels (assuming "oi" is a diphthong or has diphthongized)
- θ > t
- Drop middle consonant of triconsonantal clusters
- Voice obstruents before nasals
- k > tʃ before front vowels
- Two nasals assimilate to the second
- rl > ll
- sʲ > ɕ
- bʲ > bʑ (I justify this by saying I saw something in a paper dealing with an outcome of *pʲ somewhere in, I think, Asia a while back)
- Vowels lower before geminates
- Geminates simplify
- An epenthetic echo vowel is inserted before syllabic resonants
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Re: Nretyan Sound Change
The letter 'z' is a voicing indicator. Please keep it in the spelling.The diacritics indicate palatalization, keep those unless you change palatalization.
- Pogostick Man
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Re: Nretyan Sound Change
I wasn't giving an orthography, I was giving IPA.Tarannar wrote:The letter 'z' is a voicing indicator. Please keep it in the spelling.The diacritics indicate palatalization, keep those unless you change palatalization.
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Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread
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AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
Re: Nretyan Sound Change
Would anyone else like to try? I would like as much good input as possible, and I will compare the sound changes and choose the best one.
Re: Nretyan Sound Change
I suggest you get a hold of Trask's Historical Linguistics. It is an easy read and will give you an idea of how sound change (as well as grammatical, and syntactical change) works.
Anyway, here's my attempt:
Tzoi доы doi "I"
[ny]
Nulos нулос nulos "We"
[huiwu]
Ṗzes/Pzés бэс bʲes "You (singular)"
[mli]
Ṗzesome/Pzésome бэсомэ bʲesome "You (plural)"
[mlirmi]
Cene хэнэ θene "He/She/It"
[riji]
Cenome хэномэ θenome "They"
[riwumi]
Vzestene вэстэнэ vestene "West/Western"
[vistiji]
Changes:
[oi io]
y ø
sonorants
/h/ (/h/ has several allophones based off following consonant)
Vowels raise (
[ju uj]
Palatalization weakens to a glide and Cj
Cl
Intervocalic [s] becomes [r]
final [s] is lost
Initial Stops become nasals
CCVCVCV
CCVCV
θ
r
EDIT: The best sound changes you pick will be the ones you work your language into.
Anyway, here's my attempt:
Tzoi доы doi "I"
![arrow :>](./images/smilies/arrow.gif)
Nulos нулос nulos "We"
![arrow :>](./images/smilies/arrow.gif)
Ṗzes/Pzés бэс bʲes "You (singular)"
![arrow :>](./images/smilies/arrow.gif)
Ṗzesome/Pzésome бэсомэ bʲesome "You (plural)"
![arrow :>](./images/smilies/arrow.gif)
Cene хэнэ θene "He/She/It"
![arrow :>](./images/smilies/arrow.gif)
Cenome хэномэ θenome "They"
![arrow :>](./images/smilies/arrow.gif)
Vzestene вэстэнэ vestene "West/Western"
![arrow :>](./images/smilies/arrow.gif)
Changes:
[oi io]
![arrow :>](./images/smilies/arrow.gif)
sonorants
![arrow :>](./images/smilies/arrow.gif)
Vowels raise (
![arrow :>](./images/smilies/arrow.gif)
Palatalization weakens to a glide and Cj
![arrow :>](./images/smilies/arrow.gif)
Intervocalic [s] becomes [r]
final [s] is lost
Initial Stops become nasals
CCVCVCV
![arrow :>](./images/smilies/arrow.gif)
θ
![arrow :>](./images/smilies/arrow.gif)
EDIT: The best sound changes you pick will be the ones you work your language into.
Re: Nretyan Sound Change
My sound changes:
[nún] 2PL
[ʨé] 2SG
[ʨéme] 2PL
[sen] 3SG
[senme] 3PL
[ʋene] "western"
- pʲ tʲ kʲ → ʨ
- bʲ dʲ ɡʲ → ʥ
- stress shifts to initial
- syncope: posttonic vowels delete
- tonogenesis: voiceless obstruents in coda high tone; voiced obstruents give low tone
- l r → n in coda
- θ → s
- v → ʋ
- p t ʨ k → pʰ tʰ ʨʰ kʰ
- b d ʥ ɡ → p t ʨ k
[nún] 2PL
[ʨé] 2SG
[ʨéme] 2PL
[sen] 3SG
[senme] 3PL
[ʋene] "western"
Re: Nretyan Sound Change
Assuming this is in IPA, do the accented vowels represent tone? If they do, what exactly is tone?Clıck wrote:My sound changes:
[to] 1SG
- pʲ tʲ kʲ → ʨ
- bʲ dʲ ɡʲ → ʥ
- stress shifts to initial
- syncope: posttonic vowels delete
- tonogenesis: voiceless obstruents in coda high tone; voiced obstruents give low tone
- l r → n in coda
- θ → s
- v → ʋ
- p t ʨ k → pʰ tʰ ʨʰ kʰ
- b d ʥ ɡ → p t ʨ k
[nún] 2PL
[ʨé] 2SG
[ʨéme] 2PL
[sen] 3SG
[senme] 3PL
[ʋene] "western"
Re: Nretyan Sound Change
The acute-accented vowels represent the high tone. If you want to know what is tone, read the Wikipedia article.Tarannar wrote:Assuming this is in IPA, do the accented vowels represent tone? If they do, what exactly is tone?Clıck wrote:[to] 1SG
[nún] 2PL
[ʨé] 2SG
[ʨéme] 2PL
[sen] 3SG
[senme] 3PL
[ʋene] "western"
Re: Nretyan Sound Change
I never used these sound changes in creating Kutorenian, despite my wish to create a conlang that derives from a proto-conlang. I tend to stray from the proto-conlang quite often; It's a bad habit. However, I may still use these changes in creating Otirinian or Kulerian. Thank you all for your cooperation, I won't need any more sound changes for now.