TiikkGaahaakk da Scratchbad

[kusuri]

Let's get this out of the way:

b t d k g tj dj
[b t d k g ʧ ʤ]

f/vh/wh v/bh rh/th lh/dh s sj z zj rj
[f v θ ð s ʃ z zj ʀ]

m n ŋ w r l j
[m n ŋ w l ɹ j]

H by itself is not pronounced.

Vowels romanizations are presented: short, long
[*i] i, ihi
[y] ï, ïhï
[ɨ~ʉ] ü, üü/ühü
u, uhu
[ɪ] ii, iii/iihii
[ʏ] ïï, ïïï/ïïhïï
[ʊ] uu, uuu/uuhuu
[e] e, ehe
[ø] ë, ëhë
[ə] a, aha
[o] o/ö, oho/öhö
[ɛ] ee, eee/eehee
[œ] ëë, ëëë/ëëhëë
[ɔ] o/oo/öö, ooo/ööö/oho/öhö
[a] aa, aaa/aahaa
[ɶ] ää, äää/äähää
[ɑ] ä, ähä

VVV long vowels are rare, belonging either to very old or very new words.

There is some harmony within words, split between high rounded front/back vowels:
[y] ï <> u
[ʏ] ïï <> [ʊ] uu
[ø] ë <> [o] o/ö
[œ] ëë <> [ɔ] oo/öö
Harmony affects compounded words, affixes, and what diphthongs are allowed within a word.

The <ö> and <öö> "originally" only appeared as a result of harmony changes, but are "now" acceptable otherwise, and <o> as [ɔ] happened just because [ɔ] is more common "now" than [o].

Syllables may have a high or low tone.
Low tone is marked with two consonants at the end of a syllable and is the default when there is no final consonant, e.g.
sattass [ˈsətəs˩] large pot
High tone is marked with one consonant at the end of a syllable, and with -h when there is no final consonant:
hiiniih [ˈɪnɪ˥] sapling
There are more ambiguities in the romanization, especially regarding affixes. Some match the closest tone of the word regardless of how they are written, some don't.

Syllable structure is essentially English. ¯\_(シ)_/¯

[kusuri]

Made a new topic instead of a new post, whoops.


TGd has five genders:

The tool gender contains tools, items often held in the hand, various small objects, and food.
The dangerous or enemy gender contains dangerous items such as weapons and fire, words for foreigners and malicious spirits, as well as magical corruption and the weather (including good weather).
The precious gender contains diminutives, children, relatives, friends, gems, money, (good) spirits, natural things and places such as rocks and waterfalls, and "lawless" magic such as intuitively controlling fire/heat.
The lawful gender contains people, native citizens, stories, writings, laws, time, measures, manmade places, "lawful" magic such as spells and ritual purification.
The misc gender houses everything else; items not apparently/commonly/usually manipulatable, as well as other oddities and unexplainable things not immediately considered dangerous, such as tables and dreams.

When using honorifics or when using articles with someone's name, the gender used affects the tone:
Lawful is the general polite default, common in speech.
Tool is used when speaking to underlings and employees, and sometimes to people who are merely subordinate by caste; it is respectful to use it with someone of the priest caste, or to those doing one a service, though.
Enemy is a general insult class, but it is "in the spirit" to use it during matches and games.
Precious is for children, friends, lovers.
Misc. is the non-polite default, common in writing.


Many words can be put into multiple genders. Compare:

rëëbbja [precious] dart
rëëbbja [misc] dart

blast [tool] shield
blast [misc] shield

risk [misc] the truth; correct answer
risk [precious] the truth; a truth; hidden truth, hidden meaning

vhoin [misc] red, the color red, red thing
vhoin [dangerous] blood (from a wound); impatient heir
vhoin [tool] blood or red wine as used in a ritual; reddish paint, red ink
vhoin [lawful] blood relative
vhoin [precious] menarche


Gender is usually indicated with the last vowel of a word, the longer of two vowels in a diphthong, or either in a word ending in two long vowels; e.g. 12 and 122 will be 2-gendered, but 112 will be 1-gendered and 1122 could be either. There are plenty of exceptions, though.

Vowels typical to a gender:

Tool: ï/u ü ïï/uu a
klüd [ ˈklɨd˥ ] sword
blast [ ˈbləst˥ ] shield

Dangerous: e ee ë/ö ëë/öö
kleedd [ ˈklɛd˩ ] (enemy's) weapon, sword
ten [ ˈten˥ ] foreigner, tourist
mullee [ ˈmulɛ˩ ] cloth wraps worn by the deceased

Precious: i ii j/ja/ji
nihid [ ˈniːd˥ ] amusement, entertainment
nihidj [ ˈniːdʒ˥ ] toy
teni[ ˈteni˥ ] immigrant
klüdj [ ˈklɨdʒ˥ ] stylus

Lawful: a ä aa ää
bähäl [ ˈbɑːl˥ ] heir
saag [ ˈsæg˥ ] book
haarstt [ ˈærst˩ ] portal
taagg [ ˈtæg˩ ] (main) house

Misc: a ü ë/o/ö ëë/oo/öö, but any really.
vhëll [ ˈføl˩ ] hair
bhiihoo [ ˈvɪ˥ɔ˩ ] lips
watt [ ˈwət˩ ] belt
arst [ ˈərst˥ ] portal [casual]

Gender is always clearly indicated on the article, though.

[kusuri]

Adjectives in TGd can often go before or after the object (but always before the article), with their meaning changing based on that positioning. Adjectives preceding the noun can serve a variety of grammatical purposes, sometimes acting as prepositions, but most are merely more figurative or idiomatic versions of their other forms. (These meanings are marked B for before and A for after. Creative, yes.)
Adjectives can also be nominalized directly, and for that matter, objects can be adjectivalized directly, too.

taagg [ ˈtæg˩] house
strjiig [ ˈstʀɪg˥ ] B: below (the ground, the very bottom of); A: underground
taagg strjiig [ ˈtæg˩ ˈstʀɪg˥ ] [an] underground house
strjiig taagg [ ˈstʀɪg˥ ˈtæg˩ ] below [a] house (e.g. '[far] below [even the basement of] the house')

There are a few words in between adjective and article; they may go on either side of an object, but always precede the true articles. I call these simple articles because they match gender, but nothing else.

da is probably the most common simple article in TGd, and often replaces regular articles in short utterances.

Before a noun, it marks definiteness or specificness:
dä saag [ da˥ ˈsæg˥ ] the/this/these book(s)
de ten [ de˥ ˈten˥ ] the/that/those foreigner(s)
di histtj / dja histtj [ ˈdistʃ˩ / dʒə˥ ˈistʃ˩ ] the arrow(s)

After a noun, it originally just marked things like a performer or hero's name, a castle or fort, etc.
Histtjä dä [ ˈistʃa˩ da˩ ] The Archer (several famous people)
Glööt-ve-Taagg da [ ˈglœt˩ ve˩ ˈtæg˩ də˩ ] The House in the Bog (common storybook location)

It later expanded to include any sort of title or name - titles of poems, stories, and songs, the names of tarot cards, dance styles, dance and combat moves, short descriptions of important events, actual names of regular common places and people, and so on - shortening to just [d] when possible and becoming something of a tic.
It is even often required both before and after an object: da Strjiig da [ də ˈstʀɪgd˥ ] the Underground [District]

Simple articles can also be nominalized:

hes [ es˥ ] B: indefinite plural, some, partitive whole; A: a handful of, a couple of
hes taagg [ es˥ ˈtæg˩ ] some houses, some of the house
taagg hes [ ˈtæg˩ es˥ ] a few houses
da hes [ ˈdes˥ ] a few
da Hes da [ ˈdesd˥ ] upper class folks; high society; favored group

Up next: True Articles, which may take a while because this is the worst/best/worst part of the language.
Also, I'm considering using TGd as a proto and developing something from it. Possibly posts on that later.

[Bristel]

I really really like the aesthetic of this conlang. It reminds me of Germanic, but with some Estonian look and Australian Aboriginal language stuff, especially the noun classes.

Keep it up, I wanna see more!

[Sevly]

Ooh, this looks fun. I like what you're doing with the genders, especially their interaction with honorifics, and I really like the depth behind da. I'm also a sucker for messy orthographies, so like Bristel I love the look of the language. I'm curious about the nominalization of articles - does da hes da always refer to the upper class, or can it also refer to anything which might be "the few" or "the cream of the crop"? (Oh, just reread and saw that you also have it as "favored group", so that looks like a yes. Mm hmm.)

[kusuri]

Thanks for the replies, guys. :3
I'm thinking of introducing some more variety into the orthography; after a lot of minimalistic langs, I want to make a mess.
Since TGd has long vowels, it feels a bit odd not to give it long consonants as well. I'd like to represent these for instance as:
High, Short: t
Low, Short: tt
High, Long: ttt
Low, Long: tttt
koitttt, minnnttehe, sopppä, itttjeen

kennt/kentt/kenntt, kennnt/kennntt/kennnttt/kennntttt, etc are interchangeable in isolation; but kennnttta/kennntttta, kennnta/kennntta are not, since the t's length matters here.
Terminal short consonants could be dropped before an initial consonant, but terminal longs might not. Kentt kor, kenntt kor, but kenn' kor.

It seems fitting, considering the long vowels represented with pentagraphs.

And as a way of representing non-initial stress, I'm considering hC, and voiced/voiceless pairs:
koita [ 'koitə ], susi [ 'susi ], kone [ 'kɔne ]
koidta/koihta [ koi'tə ], suzsi/suhsi [ su'si ], kohne [ kɔ'ne ]
koida [ 'koidə ], suzi [ 'suzi ]
koitda/koihda [ koi'də ], suszi/suhzi [ su'zi ]
Or both at once, which would remove some ambiguity; koihtda and suhzsi can't be compounds.
Or even with those long terminal consonants, as if the Ts give some weight to the i in koittt. This could be a way of deciding gender in words wit diphs; käit/kiättt could be lawful and käittt/kiät precious, but I think if I did implement it, I'd still have a bunch of irregulars anyways.

And I definitely want some initial geminate consonants of some kind. Like tt in tten , that's got to be something. Maybe a fricative? That'd make for some fun in compounds; <mattten> [mat'sen], pirkkan [pir'hən].



True Articles, the bones of TGd. I'd dump tables or formulas, but unfortunately I keep making up special forms and irregular conjugations and the like, and now everything has to be explained plainly.

MISCELLANEOUS NOTES:

Some articles, mostly in the Tool and Dangerous genders, have two forms for matching the vowel harmony of the main word, with back vowels being the default* forgot to specify that, back vowels u, uu, o/ö, oo/öö are the default regarding articles and affixes.
rëëbbee sïs some of the spears
but erd sus some of the losses
One can choose to use the incorrect vowel for this, with a bit of extra stress, which gives a flavor of failure, brokenness, or general badness to the word.
rëëbbee sïs some of the bent spears
tek ten sïs some of those no-good foreigners
This can also be done with Lawful articles, using aa in place of ä and ää, or vice versa. This isn't really broken harmony at all, but that's no reason to miss out on a multitude of ways to speak badly of something.
heihääjm säkär You guys... > heihääjm saakaar You assholes...
Tak viiteeja häähäät. (There are) no thieves here. > Viteeja haahaat. No fucking thieves allowed!

Articles may be combined for two reasons: (1) to use a 'paired article' meaning, or (2) on the speaker's whim, in accordance with a compound word. Compare:
(1)
toho han ...the door.
Toho hansta robb. Close this door.
Toho han-han robb. Close the door. (ACC + ACC = Emphatic Accusative)
Toho sar-han robbor! The door closed itself! (NOM + ACC = Reflexive, emphasis on the actor; ACC + NOM = Reflexive, emphasis on the action or effect.)
(2)
täh säpär The day... (Lawful)
vhuuskk sakar Winter... (Misc)
tähvhuuskk säpärnsta / tähvhuuskk sär-sarnsta / tähvhuuskk sär-sakarnsta/ tähvhuuskk säpär-sakarnsta/ even tähvhuuskk säpärnsta-sakarnsta This winter day...
This can be done for as many parts make up a compound. This might for instance clarify whether or not some part of a noun phrase is a noun-ified adjective (gets an article) or an adject-ified noun (doesn't get an article).

After getting all the base articles down, I'll start working on paired articles ~

END NOTES


NOMINATIVE ARTICLES
... mark the subject of a sentence. In a casual sentence with two nominatives, the second is acting as a sort of topic marker defining the scope of the rest of the sentence, as opposed to topical articles, which steer the entire conversation. The examples below sound like little interruptions in a chat, or short informational utterances for which the person does not expect or want a reply to. The secondary nominative is used with filler pronoun jan 'it', and contracted to janz, just to invoke this distinction.
Or, if the sentence is about a person, the second nominative can carry an honorific, title, or other pertinent information. This is used in contrast to a particular meaning of the vocative which I'll get to later.
Baakä sär bhiihoo sar koj hain bhiih. ~ As for lips, I'll kiss yours. ~
Moittä sär stahaiäänt sär peill jad fod. Moittä, the courier, has a letter.
... have written/literary/formal forms, spoken/standard forms, and forms used to introduce a new subject to the conversation. This last form can be used on its own as a normal, non-introductory nominative in very casual speech, and can be attached to the other forms.

Very informally, the nominative can be just a syllabic S sound, or a gemination of the terminal s, sj, zj, tj, dj or rj of the main word.
Huurrrj~ ord! You guys lose!

Format:
Miscellaneous | Tool | Dangerous | Precious | Lawful
Definite - Indefinite


Whole Singular:
Written: sakar - zaanaan || sïkïr/sukur - sïtjïn/sutun || seper - sekën/sekon || själar - sjämaan || säpär - sääën/sääön
Spoken: skar, zaak - naan, naaz || sjik, sjïk/sjuk - tjin, tjïn/tjun || speer - skeer || sjäi - sjim || sähär - nën/nön
Introductory: sar - sahar || sjïïn - sjïïhïï || seen - seeheen || sjin - sjihin || sär - säjär
Whole Plural:
Written: satan - zjihiman || sïël/sïöl - sïmeen || seïhï/seuhu - semëhën/semohon || själin - sjämihin || säkäd - sëkän/sökän
Spoken: stan, naak - zjihin || seelee - seemee || sïïl/suul - sëëm/sööm || saalaa - saamaa || saakaa - seeka
Introductory: säsan - sähäsan || susan - suhusan || sesan - sehesan || sisjin - sihisjin || saasiin - saahaasiin
Partitive Singular:
Written: saket - naanet || sïket/suket - sïrjet/surjet || seevet - sëvet/sövet || sihijet - siähälet || sävet - saanet
Spoken:sket - naat || sket - sïrd/surd || svet - svet || sit - saat || saav - saan
Introductory: jeisar - jeheisar || jeisjïïn - jeheishïïn || jeiseen - jeheiseen || jeiman - jeheiman || jeimän - jeheimän
Partitive Plural:
Written: sater - ziter || sïter/suter - tjïra/tjura || seiven - seiveek || siler - silaan || säver - saavaak
Spoken: saant - zaant || resas, res - reson, res || veit - veek || sel - saal || saaver, saav - saavan, zaav
Nonal Singular:
Written:seuten - seuman || sëïken - sëïnaŋ || soelaŋ - soeman || sjitiin - sjimiin || säutan - säumaŋ
Spoken:swen - sweman || swek - swekan || swel - swelan || swiŋ - swiŋiin || swan - swaman
Introductory:zeiser - zeisam || zeiken - zeinaŋ || zeilaŋ - zeiman || zeitiin - zeimiin || zeitan - zeimaŋ
Nonal Plural:
Spoken:swer - sweran || sweker - swekar || sweler - swelar || swiŋer - swiŋan || swar - swarar
The Nominative Nonal Plural in the Written and Introductory is the same as the Singular, but with -er/ar attached according to the final vowel, e.g.zeiserer, zeisamar. The zei can be dropped from the Introductories to maintain ~short casual flavor~, which is a bit silly since that is the Introductory part of the Introductory article, but w/e.


Now that we have some articles to work with:

An article can be turned into a pronoun by attaching -(j)VhVtt, or by giving the article some stress.
Rohoddä nën swiindd. The assistant is joking.
Nënëhëtt swiindd. She is joking.
Blast sëïkener kosj. None of the shields fell.
Sëïkener kosj. None of them fell.
Articles can be suffixed with -(a)sta 'this (def.), one around here (ind.)' and -(a)nka 'that (def.), one somewhere over there (ind.)'.
Fikkëïhïs seumanasta kojj. None of the people in this cafe are talking. (Lit. "None of the cafe-few around here talk.")


Up next: Vocative, Accusative, possibly some verbishness or pronouns.

[The Kaufman]

Great. It really sounds like a mix of North Germanic and Finnic or so and the noun classes are really cool.
And a stupid question, is that intended to be the language of some orc-like race?

[kusuri]

It was originally going to be for some fairly pacifist and isolationist humans, but now it's not attached to any conculture or conworld. What in TGd makes you think towards orc?



Oh, and something inspired by the Adjectives TC, since I'm just going to beat this genders horse to death. Is there a natlang that genders phrases? Surely there's an inanimate clause or feminine quotation somewhere.


Entire phrases can take an article, gender and all.
The partitive might be used to point out that one is using only part of a quotation; the nonal is not used with phrases at all.

The default gender is, of course, Miscellaneous.

Tool phrases are somewhat interchangeable with lawfuls, but they are preferred for instructions; spoken, as opposed to tangible, tools.

Dangerous-gendered phrases are used to quote someone who said/wrote a taboo word. By marking it as dangerous, you are indicating that you are aware of, and thus distancing yourself from, the taboo.

Precious phrases are used for verses of poetry, lines from books, also radio, movies, news, television, mottos, catchphrases, trademarks, if TGd would be concultured so.

Lawful-gendered phrases are reserved for laws, rules, tenets, scriptures, etc, "official" things that one can look up, ask about, or even observe in some fancy universal sense.
Da Histt da själin kosj sävet tak kor. It says "The Arrows [of the Goddess] fall." here.


These genders can be misapplied for various effect; youths sarcastically using the lawful when speaking of school guidelines, or the precious in reference to laws about graffitiing public property; using the dangerous a lot when nothing vile has been said, for a sort of reverse comedic effect.

[The Kaufman]

Well I thought towards something orcish instantly after seeing this topic's name. xD
Dunno about natlangs but I once attempted to construct a language that genders the entire phrase, but, well, each noun could not have its specific gender.
And this isn't yet another longforgottennativeamericanlanguage copy while it's still quite a noteworthy thing. A rare phenomenon on most boards.

[Herr Dunkel]

Hey, English applies case to an entire NP instead of each constitutent element

[The Kaufman]

ED, I could've terribly mistaken. Thowt about something like sentences or so and yep gendering/declination of each element.

[kusuri]

Redid the article base.
Turns out I am not patient enough to pump out hundreds of articles following dozens of patterns.

[Qwynegold]

Thanks for the replies, guys. :3
I'm thinking of introducing some more variety into the orthography; after a lot of minimalistic langs, I want to make a mess.
Since TGd has long vowels, it feels a bit odd not to give it long consonants as well. I'd like to represent these for instance as:
High, Short: t
Low, Short: tt
High, Long: ttt
Low, Long: tttt
koitttt, minnnttehe, sopppä, itttjeen

Mother of god. Please no, it's kinda hard to see if a word contains three or four of the same letter.

It was originally going to be for some fairly pacifist and isolationist humans, but now it's not attached to any conculture or conworld. What in TGd makes you think towards orc?

I was gonna ask about this too, because, counting length distinctions, you have 34 vowels. Including /&/! That's quite a lot for humans to handle...

[kusuri]

I could toss out the separate length system and chop the vowels down to some psuedo-long psuedo-short stuff like <e> [e:] <ee> [ɛ]?

You should kick the count up to 68, because I'm also now distinguishing breathiness. Or 136, if I do use the 4-consonant idea, as short <Vn> and <Vnn> will likely be reduced to nasalization on vowels. I suppose it's a good thing tone doesn't count, or this would truly be madness.

[Qwynegold]

*dies*

[Bristel]

Crazy Finno-Australian with evidentials?!?! :D