Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
So I have made some name of cities in Yat-Vrkhazh:
I have 28 cities, and I only have names for 11 of them so far.
We have
Gimel, means "horizon", referencing being the only (habitable) city to first see sunrise on the horizon
Muḵeb and Qaẕd mean "turquoise (mineral)" and "onyx", respectively. Refers to their location near the minerals
Haẇwaq means "light"
Mazlil means "tenacity"
Ḵpar means "night"
ʾUzēr means "point of focus", referencing it importance as the capital city where the emperor resides
Řaẏya means "origin" or "beginning"
ʾAǧatad-ʾAḵarmum (should actually be ʾAḵarmum-ʾAǧatad) means "white ships", referencing the beautiful white ships that travel from the harbor
Ḻamad-Suǧǧalum means "old trees", referencing... well the city has very old trees, perhaps Vrkhazh's oldest
Under Thrice Xandvii's recommendation, I have called the desert between the Pillars (AKA the Great Cities of Vrkhazh): Mazihu-Ǧaḵtunu, which means "Sea of Ghosts"
ṛ-Ṭaram-Yat-Vṛḵaẕ means "Horn of Yat-Vrkhazh"
Lastly, we have Tōram-ṛ-ʾIpzētunu which means "City of the Crows". This city was plagued by the famine that the Formless Being, Silḻav, caused when it made its way through the veil. No-one has tried to live there again for fear of it being cursed. It also appears to be where the veil is thinnest...
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
A guide to pronouncing these names would be nice. They have a nice Semitic vibe to them, but I don't know how to parse the diacritics that you're using.
A New Yorker wrote:Isn't it sort of a relief to talk about the English Premier League instead of the sad state of publishing?
Abi wrote:At this point it seems pretty apparent that PIE was simply an ancient esperanto gone awry.
אקֿמך ארש-הגִנו wrote:So I have made some name of cities in Yat-Vrkhazh:
I have 28 cities, and I only have names for 11 of them so far.
We have
Gimel, means "horizon", referencing being the only (habitable) city to first see sunrise on the horizon
Muḵeb and Qaẕd mean "turquoise (mineral)" and "onyx", respectively. Refers to their location near the minerals
Haẇwaq means "light"
Mazlil means "tenacity"
Ḵpar means "night"
ʾUzēr means "point of focus", referencing it importance as the capital city where the emperor resides
Řaẏya means "origin" or "beginning"
ʾAǧatad-ʾAḵarmum (should actually be ʾAḵarmum-ʾAǧatad) means "white ships", referencing the beautiful white ships that travel from the harbor
Ḻamad-Suǧǧalum means "old trees", referencing... well the city has very old trees, perhaps Vrkhazh's oldest
Under Thrice Xandvii's recommendation, I have called the desert between the Pillars (AKA the Great Cities of Vrkhazh): Mazihu-Ǧaḵtunu, which means "Sea of Ghosts"
ṛ-Ṭaram-Yat-Vṛḵaẕ means "Horn of Yat-Vrkhazh"
Lastly, we have Tōram-ṛ-ʾIpzētunu which means "City of the Crows". This city was plagued by the famine that the Formless Being, Silḻav, caused when it made its way through the veil. No-one has tried to live there again for fear of it being cursed. It also appears to be where the veil is thinnest...
Arzena wrote:A guide to pronouncing these names would be nice. They have a nice Semitic vibe to them, but I don't know how to parse the diacritics that you're using.
You bet that is my intention.
Here are the names, stress is on the ultimate syllable in bisyllabic and most trisyllabic words and the penultimate syllable elsewhere. more on pronunciation can be found on my frathwiki and orthography here
Gimel
[gimɛl]
Muḵeb
muxɛb
Qaẕd
[qaʝd]
Haẇwaq
[hao̯waq]
Mazlil
[mazlil]
Ḵpar
[xpaɹ]
ʾUzēr
[ʔuze̞ɹ]
Řaẏya
[rʷae̯ja]
ʾAḵarmum-ʾAǧatad
[ʔaxaɹmumʔaɣatad]
Ḻamad-Suǧǧalum
[ɬʲamadsuɣ:alum]
Mazihu-Ǧaḵtunu
[mazihuɣaxtunu]
ṛ-Ṭaram-Yat-Vṛḵaẕ
[ɹ̩tʶaɹamjatβɹ̩xaʝ]
Tōram-ṛ-ʾIpzētunu
[to̞ɹamɹ̩ʔipze̞tunu]
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Birdlang wrote:I guess you were going for a Semitic vibe. And my other guess was ?\.
No, no, no pharyngeals. It is inspired by Semitic languages, but nowhere close to being one.
It is simply that I have three rhotics and no other idea how to represent the trill and I'm rather against acutes. Not like it matters, it is a romanization after all.
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Thanks for posting pronunciation guides. What is the climate of Yat-Vrkhazh like? Right now I'm trying to wrap my head around the placement of the cities. Some of them seem to be a bit far from the rivers and lakes.
A New Yorker wrote:Isn't it sort of a relief to talk about the English Premier League instead of the sad state of publishing?
Abi wrote:At this point it seems pretty apparent that PIE was simply an ancient esperanto gone awry.
Arzena wrote:Thanks for posting pronunciation guides. What is the climate of Yat-Vrkhazh like? Right now I'm trying to wrap my head around the placement of the cities. Some of them seem to be a bit far from the rivers and lakes.
North of ʾAǧatad-ʾAḵarmum along aways towards Haẇwaq is a BWh climate, while south of that is Af with bands of Aw somewhere around the middle... there is also intermediate BSh climate... Perhaps some Ah near the coasts...
I'd say Qaẕd is 25 degrees N... But now I think maybe 22 or 23...
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Nice Semitic vibe, for sure. When it comes to the other city names, don't expect them all to make sense in the modern language. Some might be unchanged since the proto-language or come from the language spoken by the previous occupants of your country.
Ketumak wrote:Nice Semitic vibe, for sure. When it comes to the other city names, don't expect them all to make sense in the modern language. Some might be unchanged since the proto-language or come from the language spoken by the previous occupants of your country.
Depends... The empire was created 2200 years ago, but Old Vrkhazhian was spoken 5000 years ago.
Some city names may be Middle Vrkhazhian...
The area around "Řaẏya" (meaning "origin, beginning") and Mazlil was considered the urheimat of Proto-Vrkhazhian...
The founding of the empire went along a similar vein to that of the Akkadian empire...
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
In that case, yes, Middle Vrkhazhian would be better in place names. I also meant to ask, do you have any linguistic minorities? Their place names will be distinctive, of course.
I have never made any language beyond Vrkhazhian and Proto-Hasjakam, of which Proto-Vrkhazhian is a descendant...
They might exist, but I don't have anything.
Vrkhazhian is also divided into two major dialects; Uzerian and Mukhebic, of which Uzerian is considered the more "standard". There are probably several dialects around the two large dialectal regions.
But I don't know how to make dialects...
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Birdlang wrote:I guess you were going for a Semitic vibe. And my other guess was ?\.
No, no, no pharyngeals. It is inspired by Semitic languages, but nowhere close to being one.
It is simply that I have three rhotics and no other idea how to represent the trill and I'm rather against acutes. Not like it matters, it is a romanization after all.
OK. I also thought it was a retroflex or fricative trill. And the Uvularized consonants make it seem very Semitic.
Birdlang wrote:What languages are related to Vrkhazhian?
No, except for Ḥadiṯċa [xadiθʈ͡ʂa], but they only share Himoshian as an ancestor.
Birdlang wrote:
אקֿמך ארש-הגִנו wrote:
Birdlang wrote:I guess you were going for a Semitic vibe. And my other guess was ?\.
No, no, no pharyngeals. It is inspired by Semitic languages, but nowhere close to being one.
It is simply that I have three rhotics and no other idea how to represent the trill and I'm rather against acutes. Not like it matters, it is a romanization after all.
And the Uvularized consonants make it seem very Semitic.
אקֿמך ארש-הגִנו wrote:I have never made any language beyond Vrkhazhian and Proto-Hasjakam, of which Proto-Vrkhazhian is a descendant...
They might exist, but I don't have anything.
Vrkhazhian is also divided into two major dialects; Uzerian and Mukhebic, of which Uzerian is considered the more "standard". There are probably several dialects around the two large dialectal regions.
But I don't know how to make dialects...
Making a dialect is just like making a language except fewer, less extreme changes.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
אקֿמך ארש-הגִנו wrote:I have never made any language beyond Vrkhazhian and Proto-Hasjakam, of which Proto-Vrkhazhian is a descendant...
They might exist, but I don't have anything.
Vrkhazhian is also divided into two major dialects; Uzerian and Mukhebic, of which Uzerian is considered the more "standard". There are probably several dialects around the two large dialectal regions.
But I don't know how to make dialects...
Making a dialect is just like making a language except fewer, less extreme changes.
Well, in that case, I'm opting for nasal fricatives in Mukhebic.
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
- Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Birdlang wrote:I guess you were going for a Semitic vibe. And my other guess was ?\.
No, no, no pharyngeals. It is inspired by Semitic languages, but nowhere close to being one.
It is simply that I have three rhotics and no other idea how to represent the trill and I'm rather against acutes. Not like it matters, it is a romanization after all.
And the Uvularized consonants make it seem very Semitic.
I have a feeling it's actually more common than it seems. There are multiple "uvular" POAs, for example in Ingush (and Chechen?) /k'/ is close to the POA of /q/, while /q'/ is further back still, there are multiple pharyngeal POAs that can be made such that one can distinguish upper-pharyngeal and lower-pharyngeal consonants, though they don't contrast, and then there's epiglottals further back still. Similarly to how a number of pharyngeals have been found to use the epiglottals, it wouldn't surprise me if more research reveals that what is often called velarization is farther back than velar, or some of what is termed pharyngealization is far enough up that is overlaps in place with what are termed uvulars. It doesn't matter too much what the precise location is, though, because it's not contrastive (outside Juǀ'hoan), so they get swept up with one or the other of the established terms. And, in fact, just looking I found multiple sources saying Arabic emphatics are uvularized in some dialects, as their POA is much farther up in the throat than /ħ ʕ/ and near or identical to /q/ (one even said that every in-depth study to date [2001] found uvular, not pharyngeal, secondary articulation).
