Proto-Avestani

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Pogostick Man
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Proto-Avestani

Post by Pogostick Man »

No, not [əˈvɛstn̩], [ˈævɨstæn]. This is largely, although it is not entirely, based on gleb seed 1642162080.

/m n ɲ ŋ/
/p b t d c ɟ k g ʔ/
/s ʃ h/
/ɾ/
/w l j/

/u o a e i/

Syllable structure: (C)V(N,h)

The name comes from Proto-Avestan *ad-is-taɲi, "(in) the way of the people of the Ed (River)".

*-is "people of"
*-taɲi "(in) the way of"

To Avestan:

S[- voice] > Ø / V_V#
ŋ > n / #_
b d {g,ɟ} > v ð j / V_V
S > S[+ aspirated] / _Vh
u o a > ʉ ɵ æ / _(C)(C){i,j}
a > e / #_
a > ɑ
ɲ > n / _#
nj > ɲ / _V#
j > Ø / C_V#
V > Ø / _#
ɑ > o / _w
æ > e / _j
h > w / B_#
h > w / _B
h > j / E_#
h > j / _E
ʉ ɵ > y ø
ʃ > s / ! V[+ high]_
V[- low] V[+ low] > ɨ ə / unstressed
ð > v / #(C)V_
ð > l
w > v
{b,g} d ɟ > Ø l z
c cʰ > s sʰ
ʃ > x
o ø e > u y i / _#
Vw Vj > wV jV / VC_#
{l,r} > s / _#

*ŋohu one > now [now]
*ɟosu two > zos [zos]
*uŋuɾa three > uǹes [ˈuŋɨs]
*kujonja four > cüjeñ [ˈkyjɨɲ]
*ʃaɟesu five > sejes [ˈsejɨs]
*miɾi six > mis [mis]
*miriŋohu seven > mireǹow [ˈmiɾɨŋow]
*miriɟosu eight > mirejos [ˈmiɾɨjos]
*miɾiuŋuɾa nine > mireuǹes [ˈmiɾɨuŋɨs]
*mirikujonja ten > mirecüjeñ [ˈmiɾɨkyjɨɲ]
*loŋuga thirty-six > loǹje [ˈloŋjɨ]
*adistaɲi Avestan > avestan [ˈævɨstæn]
*ʃusuno wheel (*ʃus-u-no spin-middle.voice-A) > susen [ˈsusɨn]
*ɾaje > rej [ɾej]
*loɟe > löj [løj]
*caʃa > sås [sɑs]
*koʃo > cose [kos]
*ŋaɾawa > nårwa [ˈnɑɾwə]
*ɾoe > ru [ɾu]
*suhu > suw [suw]
*ʃoja > söj [søj]
*suʃoʃo > suches [ˈsuxɨs]
*lunoŋu > luneǹ [ˈlunɨŋ]
*jasuwo > jåswe [ˈjɑswɨ]
*ʃoɲo > son [son]
*hupalu > wupas [ˈwupəs]
*poɾojo > porje [ˈpoɾjɨ]
*ɾaduʃao > råvecha [ˈɾɑvɨxa]
*jidawu > jivwa [ˈjivwə]
*ɾuja> rüj [ɾyj]
*ŋaju > nej [nej]
*buse > us [us]
*laʃuna > låsen [ˈlɑsɨn]
*uɟanu > üjan [ˈyjən]
*botajo > otje [ˈotjɨ]
Last edited by Pogostick Man on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Proto-Avestan

Post by Zaarin »

This is actually quite a cool looking language.

I've also had a language bear an oddly similar name to a real language: Aqadian, from aqadun "marshlander."
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

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Re: Proto-Avestan

Post by Pabappa »

Sorry for offtopic comment but I just coudlnt udnerstand what you were saying because I always thought Avestan the Iranian language was itself preonounced [ˈævɨstæn], or at least [ˈavɨstan]. Becasuse its Middle Eastern so I just automatyivcally assumed the -stan was the modern use. That exaplains where the name Avesta comes from .
And now Sunàqʷa the Sea Lamprey with our weather report:
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Re: Proto-Avestan

Post by Pogostick Man »

Publipis wrote:Sorry for offtopic comment but I just coudlnt udnerstand what you were saying because I always thought Avestan the Iranian language was itself preonounced [ˈævɨstæn], or at least [ˈavɨstan]. Becasuse its Middle Eastern so I just automatyivcally assumed the -stan was the modern use. That exaplains where the name Avesta comes from .
I thought it was [ˈævɨstæn] too. I decided I liked my pronunciation so I made a language with that as the name.
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Re: Proto-Avestan

Post by Pogostick Man »

Zaarin wrote:This is actually quite a cool looking language.
:D
Zaarin wrote:I've also had a language bear an oddly similar name to a real language: Aqadian, from aqadun "marshlander."
Akkadian or Aquetanian?
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Re: Proto-Avestan

Post by Pogostick Man »

Pronouns and their reflexes in Avestan. The default third-person forms are the "not recently seen" forms.

*ɾoe > ru [ɾu] 1SG
*ɾuja > rüj [ɾyj] 1DL
*lunoŋu > luneǹ [ˈlunɨŋ] 1PL
*ʃoɲo > son [son] 2SG
*ʃoja > söj [søj] 2DL
*suʃoʃo > suches [ˈsuxɨs] 2PL
*uɟanu > üjan [ˈyjən] 3SG recently seen
*jidawu > jivwa [ˈjivwə] 3DL recently seen
*jasuwo > jåswe [ˈjɑswɨ] 3PL recently seen
*buse > us [us] 3SG not recently seen
*botajo > otje [ˈotjɨ] 3DL not recently seen
*poɾojo > porje [ˈpoɾjɨ] 3PL not recently seen

The pronouns are turned into possessive forms with a prefix *i(ʃ)- and into accusative forms with a prefix *u(ʃ)-.

Possessive forms:

*iɾoe > ire [ˈiɾɨ] 1SG
*iɾuja > irej [ˈiɾɨj] 1DL
*ilunoŋu > ilenoǹ [ˈilɨnoŋ] 1PL
*iʃoɲo > ichen [ˈixɨn] 2SG
*iʃoja > ichej [ˈixɨj] 2DL
*isuʃoʃo > isechos [ˈisɨchos] 2PL
*iʃuɟanu > ichejån [ˈixɨjɑn] 3SG recently seen
*ijidawu > ijevwå [ˈijɨvwɑ] 3DL recently seen
*ijasuwo > ijaswu [ˈijəswu] 3PL recently seen
*ibuse > ives [ˈivɨs] 3SG not recently seen
*ibotajo > ivetjå [ˈivɨtjɑ] 3DL not recently seen
*ipoɾojo > iperjo [ˈipɨɾjo] 3PL not recently seen

Accusative forms:

*uɾoe > ure [ˈuɾɨ] 1SG
*uɾuja > urej [ˈuɾɨj] 1DL
*ulunoŋu > ulenoǹ [ˈulɨnoŋ] 1PL
*uʃoɲo > uchen [ˈuxɨn] 2SG
*uʃoja > uchej [ˈuxɨj] 2DL
*usuʃoʃo > usechos [ˈusɨchos] 2PL
*uʃuɟanu > uchejån [ˈuxɨjɑn] 3SG recently seen
*ujidawu > üjevwå [ˈyjɨvwɑ] 3DL recently seen
*ujasuwo > ujaswu [ˈujəswu] 3PL recently seen
*ibuse > uves [ˈuvɨs] 3SG not recently seen
*ibotajo > uvetjå [ˈuvɨtjɑ] 3DL not recently seen
*ipoɾojo > uperjo [ˈupɨɾjo] 3PL not recently seen

Proto-Avestan had SOV word order.

The definite article was *-im (*ʃusuno > susen [ˈsusɨn] "(a) wheel", *ʃusuno-im > susenöem [ˈsusɨnøɨm] "the wheel"). There was also a contrastive article *-ʃi (*ʃusuno-ʃi > susenös [ˈsusɨnøs] "this (other) wheel").

Verbs
Proto-Avestan had three voices: Active, middle (indicated by a suffix *-u), and passive (indicated by a suffix *-ti).

*laʃuna > låsen [ˈlɑsɨn] "cook"

*buse laʃuna > us låsen "he is cooking (something)"
*buse laʃuna-u > us låsenå "it is cooking (it's in the oven)"
*buse laʃuna-ti > us låsenåt "it is being cooked"
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Re: Proto-Avestan

Post by Pogostick Man »

Tenses

*-han historical tense
*-hon past tense
*-Ø present tense
*-s(i) still tense (negated = no longer)
*-hi hodiernal tense (can refer to either past or future events)
*-ki not-yet tense (negated = already)
*-ni future tense

Active voice:
*buse laʃuna-har ibuse > us låsenåvan uves "he baked it (a long time ago)"
*buse laʃuna-hon ibuse > us låsenåven uves "he baked it"
*buse laʃuna-Ø ibuse > us låsenå uves "he's baking it"
*buse laʃuna-s ibuse > us låsenås uves "he's still baking it"
*buse laʃuna-hi ibuse > us låsenaj uves "he baked it today/he'll bake it today"
*buse laʃuna-ki ibuse > us låsenac uves "he hasn't baked it yet"
*buse laʃuna-ni ibuse > us låsenan uves "he'll bake it"

Middle voice:
*buse laʃuna-u-har ibuse > us låsenåevån uves "it baked (a long time ago)"
*buse laʃuna-u-hon ibuse > us låsenåevon uves "it baked"
*buse laʃuna-u-Ø ibuse > us låsenåe uves "it's baking"
*buse laʃuna-u-s ibuse > us låsenåes uves "it's still baking"
*buse laʃuna-u-hi ibuse > us låsenåej uves "it baked today/it'll bake today"
*buse laʃuna-u-ki ibuse > us låsenåe uves "it hasn't baked yet"
*buse laʃuna-u-ni ibuse > us låsenåen uves "it'll bake"

Passive voice:
*buse laʃuna-ti-har ibuse > us låsenatevån uves "it was baked (a long time ago)"
*buse laʃuna-ti-hon ibuse > us låsenatevon uves "it was baked"
*buse laʃuna-ti-Ø ibuse > us låsenat uves "it is being baked"
*buse laʃuna-ti-s ibuse > us låsenates uves "it's still being baked"
*buse laʃuna-ti-hi ibuse > us låsenatej uves "it was baked today/it'll be baked today"
*buse laʃuna-ti-ki ibuse > us låsenatec uves "it hasn't been baked yet"
*buse laʃuna-ti-ni ibuse > us låsenaten uves "it'll be bake"

I'm considering fusing the pronouns with the verb to make a set of verbal prefixes. This would lead to pro-drop (and possibly VSO word order?). Is it realistic for the unstressed syllable to drop in this process and then the stressed syllable reduces like in the below paradigm?

re-låsen
rej-låsen
len-låsen
sen-låsen
sej-låsen
sech-låsen
ejn-låsen
jiv-låsen
jes-låsen
es-låsen
(t)je-låsen
(is it better as je- or tje-?)
per-låsen
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Re: Proto-Avestan

Post by WeepingElf »

Your language looks very nice, but using a name that is already in use for another language, even if it is pronounced differently, is a bad move. It leads to confusion.
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Re: Proto-Avestan

Post by Zaarin »

Pogostick Man wrote:
Zaarin wrote:This is actually quite a cool looking language.
:D
Zaarin wrote:I've also had a language bear an oddly similar name to a real language: Aqadian, from aqadun "marshlander."
Akkadian or Aquetanian?
Akkadian.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

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Re: Proto-Avestan

Post by Pogostick Man »

WeepingElf wrote:Your language looks very nice, but using a name that is already in use for another language, even if it is pronounced differently, is a bad move. It leads to confusion.
Would it be better if I called it "Avestani"?
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Re: Proto-Avestan

Post by WeepingElf »

Pogostick Man wrote:
WeepingElf wrote:Your language looks very nice, but using a name that is already in use for another language, even if it is pronounced differently, is a bad move. It leads to confusion.
Would it be better if I called it "Avestani"?
Yes. That works.
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Tha cvastam émi cvastam santham amal phelsa. -- Friedrich Schiller
ESTAR-3SG:P human-OBJ only human-OBJ true-OBJ REL-LOC play-3SG:A

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