Sound Change Quickie Thread
- Nortaneous
- Sumerul
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
There are Papuan languages with unconditional k > q -- the gap isn't filled and no other velars uvularize, so their stop systems are /p t q b d g/.
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- احمکي ارش-ھجن
- Avisaru
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
How are these sound changes?
F = front(ed) vowel
B = back(ed) vowel
L = lowered vowel
U = uvular(ized) consonant
Hīmōšīkā
/æ æ: ɑ ɑ: ɛ ɛ: e e: ɪ ɪ: i i: ə ə: ɔ ɔ: o o: ʊ ʊ: u u:/ (long in open syllables, short in closed syllables)
/m n ŋ/
/p p̰ b t t̰ d k k̰ g q̰ ʡ ʔ/
/f s z x ɣ ħ h/
/w r r̰ j/
/l ɬ/
Hīmōšīkā to Takśāikā (incomplete)
æː/ɛː/[open syllable]
ɑ/a/[closed syllable]
eː,iː,oː,uː/ɪː,əj,ʊː,əw/[open syllable]
æ,ɛ,ɪ,ɔ,ʊ/a,ə,ɨ,ə,ɨ/[closed syllable]
t/t͡s/_(u,ʊ)
k,g/c,ɟ/_(i,ɪ)
x,ɣ/ç,ʝ/_(i,ɪ)
q/q͡χ/_(u,ʊ)
ɣ/g/#_Vx
ʔp,ʔt,ʔk,ʔq/p,t,k,q/
ʡp,ʡt,ʡk,ʡq,ʡ/Lp,Lt,Lk,Lq,Lʔ/
hp,ht,hk,hq,hː/Vːʰp,Vːʰt,Vːʰk,Vːʰq,Vːh/
ħp,ħt,ħk,ħq,ħː/Lːp,Lːt,Lːk,Lːq,Lːχ/
p̰,t̰,k̰,q̰,r̰/pʶ,tʶ,kʶ,qʶ,rʶ/
Takśāikā to Proto-Vrkhazhian
Vː/V/
wː,jː/β,ʝ/
pf,bf/p͡ɸ,b͡β/
f,p͡ɸ,b͡β/p,p,b/m_
k,g/x,ɣ/_N
Lp,Lt,Lk,Lq,Lʔ/p,t,k,q,ʔ/
Vːʰp,Vːʰt,Vːʰk,Vːʰq,Vːh/ʰp,ʰt,ʰk,ʰq,h/
Lːp,Lːt,Lːk,Lːq,Lːχ/p,t,k,q,χ/
V/B/#uC_ (progressive u-mutation)
V/F/_Ce# (regressive e-mutation)
V/0/_'C (before any stressed syllable)
Proto-Vrkhazhian to Classical Vrkhazhian
ɑ,ɛ/a,e/
ɪ,əj,ʊ,əw/i,aj,u,aw/
ɨ/i/
p͡ɸ,b͡β/ɸ,β/
ɬ/ʎ̝̊/_F
θ,ð/ɹ/V_V
CV/VC/#(q,ʔ)_
ŋ/ɴ/_B
i,u/e,o/U_
Classical Vrkhazhian to Uzerian Vrkhazhian (incomplete)
aj,aw/ae̯,ao̯/_C or _#
kʶ,qʶ,rʶ/q,χ,ʀ
Classical Vrkhazhian to Mukhebic Vrkhazhian (also incomplete)
aj,aw/ae̯,ao̯/_C or _#
Proto-Vrkhazhian to Eḏuanik
a/a/
e,ə/e/
i,ɨ/i/
o/o/
u/u/
ɑː/aː/
ɛː,əː,əj/eː/
ɪː/iː/
ɔː,əw/oː/
ʊː/uː/
/pʶ/ > /pˠ/ > [ɣp] > /ɣʷ/
/tʶ/ > /tˠ/ > /θʷ/
/kʶ/ > /kˠ/ > /xʷ/
/qʶ/ > /qˠ/ > /χʷ/
/rʶ/ > /rˠ/ > /rʷ/
p͡ɸ,b͡β/f,v/
t͡s/> /t͡ʃ/ > /t͡ɬ/
c,ɟ/t͡s,d͡z/
ʰp,ʰt/f,t͡s/
ʝ/j/
ç/h/_B
h/ç/_F
Vʰk/Vːk/_#
Vʰq/Vːq/_#
k,g,q/kʷ,gʷ,qʷ/w_#
k,g,q/kʷ,gʷ,qʷ/_w
k,g,q/kʷ,gʷ,qʷ/_BV
ɬ,t͡ɬ,θ,ð,x,ɣ,χ/ɬʷ,t͡ɬʷ,θʷ,ðʷ,xʷ,ɣʷ,χʷ/w_#
ɬ,t͡ɬ,θ,ð,x,ɣ,χ/ɬʷ,t͡ɬʷ,θʷ,ðʷ,xʷ,ɣʷ,χʷ/_w
ɬ,t͡ɬ,θ,ð,x,ɣ,χ/ɬʷ,t͡ɬʷ,θʷ,ðʷ,xʷ,ɣʷ,χʷ/_BV
ŋ/ŋʷ/w_#
ŋ/ŋʷ/_w
ŋ/ŋʷ/_BV
F = front(ed) vowel
B = back(ed) vowel
L = lowered vowel
U = uvular(ized) consonant
Hīmōšīkā
/æ æ: ɑ ɑ: ɛ ɛ: e e: ɪ ɪ: i i: ə ə: ɔ ɔ: o o: ʊ ʊ: u u:/ (long in open syllables, short in closed syllables)
/m n ŋ/
/p p̰ b t t̰ d k k̰ g q̰ ʡ ʔ/
/f s z x ɣ ħ h/
/w r r̰ j/
/l ɬ/
Hīmōšīkā to Takśāikā (incomplete)
æː/ɛː/[open syllable]
ɑ/a/[closed syllable]
eː,iː,oː,uː/ɪː,əj,ʊː,əw/[open syllable]
æ,ɛ,ɪ,ɔ,ʊ/a,ə,ɨ,ə,ɨ/[closed syllable]
t/t͡s/_(u,ʊ)
k,g/c,ɟ/_(i,ɪ)
x,ɣ/ç,ʝ/_(i,ɪ)
q/q͡χ/_(u,ʊ)
ɣ/g/#_Vx
ʔp,ʔt,ʔk,ʔq/p,t,k,q/
ʡp,ʡt,ʡk,ʡq,ʡ/Lp,Lt,Lk,Lq,Lʔ/
hp,ht,hk,hq,hː/Vːʰp,Vːʰt,Vːʰk,Vːʰq,Vːh/
ħp,ħt,ħk,ħq,ħː/Lːp,Lːt,Lːk,Lːq,Lːχ/
p̰,t̰,k̰,q̰,r̰/pʶ,tʶ,kʶ,qʶ,rʶ/
Takśāikā to Proto-Vrkhazhian
Vː/V/
wː,jː/β,ʝ/
pf,bf/p͡ɸ,b͡β/
f,p͡ɸ,b͡β/p,p,b/m_
k,g/x,ɣ/_N
Lp,Lt,Lk,Lq,Lʔ/p,t,k,q,ʔ/
Vːʰp,Vːʰt,Vːʰk,Vːʰq,Vːh/ʰp,ʰt,ʰk,ʰq,h/
Lːp,Lːt,Lːk,Lːq,Lːχ/p,t,k,q,χ/
V/B/#uC_ (progressive u-mutation)
V/F/_Ce# (regressive e-mutation)
V/0/_'C (before any stressed syllable)
Proto-Vrkhazhian to Classical Vrkhazhian
ɑ,ɛ/a,e/
ɪ,əj,ʊ,əw/i,aj,u,aw/
ɨ/i/
p͡ɸ,b͡β/ɸ,β/
ɬ/ʎ̝̊/_F
θ,ð/ɹ/V_V
CV/VC/#(q,ʔ)_
ŋ/ɴ/_B
i,u/e,o/U_
Classical Vrkhazhian to Uzerian Vrkhazhian (incomplete)
aj,aw/ae̯,ao̯/_C or _#
kʶ,qʶ,rʶ/q,χ,ʀ
Classical Vrkhazhian to Mukhebic Vrkhazhian (also incomplete)
aj,aw/ae̯,ao̯/_C or _#
Proto-Vrkhazhian to Eḏuanik
a/a/
e,ə/e/
i,ɨ/i/
o/o/
u/u/
ɑː/aː/
ɛː,əː,əj/eː/
ɪː/iː/
ɔː,əw/oː/
ʊː/uː/
/pʶ/ > /pˠ/ > [ɣp] > /ɣʷ/
/tʶ/ > /tˠ/ > /θʷ/
/kʶ/ > /kˠ/ > /xʷ/
/qʶ/ > /qˠ/ > /χʷ/
/rʶ/ > /rˠ/ > /rʷ/
p͡ɸ,b͡β/f,v/
t͡s/> /t͡ʃ/ > /t͡ɬ/
c,ɟ/t͡s,d͡z/
ʰp,ʰt/f,t͡s/
ʝ/j/
ç/h/_B
h/ç/_F
Vʰk/Vːk/_#
Vʰq/Vːq/_#
k,g,q/kʷ,gʷ,qʷ/w_#
k,g,q/kʷ,gʷ,qʷ/_w
k,g,q/kʷ,gʷ,qʷ/_BV
ɬ,t͡ɬ,θ,ð,x,ɣ,χ/ɬʷ,t͡ɬʷ,θʷ,ðʷ,xʷ,ɣʷ,χʷ/w_#
ɬ,t͡ɬ,θ,ð,x,ɣ,χ/ɬʷ,t͡ɬʷ,θʷ,ðʷ,xʷ,ɣʷ,χʷ/_w
ɬ,t͡ɬ,θ,ð,x,ɣ,χ/ɬʷ,t͡ɬʷ,θʷ,ðʷ,xʷ,ɣʷ,χʷ/_BV
ŋ/ŋʷ/w_#
ŋ/ŋʷ/_w
ŋ/ŋʷ/_BV
Is this supposed to be an answer to my earlier question (on the previous page)..?suoenatroN wrote:There are Papuan languages with unconditional k > q -- the gap isn't filled and no other velars uvularize, so their stop systems are /p t q b d g/.
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
How powerful is analogy? If most, but not all, two-syllable verbs have stress on the last syllable, and most, but not all, two-syllable nouns have stress on the first syllable, would it be possible for words with the 'wrong' pattern to change to the other one, or for this stress shift to be productive to form verbs from nouns (or vice-versa)? Now, what some formerly two-syllable roots are actually one-syllable, since the unstressed vowel disappeared (e.g. /tɨˈlo/ > /ˈtlo/). These would be identical to one-syllable roots with a consonant cluster at the beginning (e.g. /ˈksa/ > /ˈksa/). Could analogy apply to these monosyllabic roots, producing /ˈkɨza/ from /ˈksa/, even though there was never a /ɨ/ in the root?
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- Lebom
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
That definitely sounds plausible. That's essentially how the biconsonantal and triconsonantal languages of the Afro-Asiatic family developed, through massive and thoroughgoing use of analogy. That's also a bit of back-formation, which is also very common.zyxw59 wrote:How powerful is analogy? If most, but not all, two-syllable verbs have stress on the last syllable, and most, but not all, two-syllable nouns have stress on the first syllable, would it be possible for words with the 'wrong' pattern to change to the other one, or for this stress shift to be productive to form verbs from nouns (or vice-versa)? Now, what some formerly two-syllable roots are actually one-syllable, since the unstressed vowel disappeared (e.g. /tɨˈlo/ > /ˈtlo/). These would be identical to one-syllable roots with a consonant cluster at the beginning (e.g. /ˈksa/ > /ˈksa/). Could analogy apply to these monosyllabic roots, producing /ˈkɨza/ from /ˈksa/, even though there was never a /ɨ/ in the root?
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Would /ðə/ > /ɣə/ > /ɰə/ > /u/ be plausible?sangi39 wrote: IIRC, /ð/ may have become /ɣ/ at some point in the history of Irish Gaelic before becoming /j/ when slender. I wonder, then if /θ/ could similarly shift to /x/. /ð/ can also become /r/ and /θ/ can become /h/.
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
This was actually the inspiration for an important consonant shift in Future English!WeepingElf wrote:Yes. The first step essentially happened in southern German dialects (the "Proto-German" voiceless stops probably were aspirated); /pf/ > /f/ is currently happening in German (school teachers are fighting an uphill battle against it, saying things like Es heißt 'Pferd', nicht 'Ferd'), and /kx/ > /k/ has happened in many of those dialects which once had /kx/.zyxw59 wrote:Is /ph th kh/ > /pf ts kx/ > /f ts k/ plausible?
- StrangerCoug
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Is there a semivowel counterpart to /ɨ/?
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Yes, but it's rare.
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
I'm not sure how often ɰ/ɣ spontaneously round, but I'd say so.TaylorS wrote:Would /ðə/ > /ɣə/ > /ɰə/ > /u/ be plausible?sangi39 wrote: IIRC, /ð/ may have become /ɣ/ at some point in the history of Irish Gaelic before becoming /j/ when slender. I wonder, then if /θ/ could similarly shift to /x/. /ð/ can also become /r/ and /θ/ can become /h/.
Kinda depends on how you treat /ɨ/. In a lot of languages, there's a vowel between [ɨ ~ ɯ] (e.g. Vietnamese and European Portuguese have /ɨ/ of about the same backness as Turkish and Thai /ɯ/). With some frequency there's a /ɰ/ that can be paired with it, though I don't know if in such cases /ɨ ɰ/ alternate in hiatus the way /i j/ and /u w/ often do. There's a tiny handful that actually have a central semivowel, Tupi and Mapuche off the top of my head.StrangerCoug wrote:Is there a semivowel counterpart to /ɨ/?
- احمکي ارش-ھجن
- Avisaru
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Is the condition ɾ/ɹ/V_V possible? ɾ/ɹ/_C?
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
It occurs in the languages of Tanna (it's usually transcribed as <v>)StrangerCoug wrote:Is there a semivowel counterpart to /ɨ/?
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
ɾ/ɹ/V_V seems less likely to me, but ɾ/ɹ/_C is reasonably common. It happens (I believe) in some dialects of Aramaic, for example.احمکي ارش-ھجن wrote:Is the condition ɾ/ɹ/V_V possible? ɾ/ɹ/_C?
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- احمکي ارش-ھجن
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Maybe it is unlikely, but for why? Is this not lenition?Zaarin wrote:ɾ/ɹ/V_V seems less likely to me, but ɾ/ɹ/_C is reasonably common. It happens (I believe) in some dialects of Aramaic, for example.احمکي ارش-ھجن wrote:Is the condition ɾ/ɹ/V_V possible? ɾ/ɹ/_C?
ʾAšol ḵavad pulqam ʾifbižen lav ʾifšimeḻ lit maseḡrad lav lit n͛ubad. ʾUpulasim ṗal sa-panžun lav sa-ḥadṇ lav ṗal šarmaḵeš lit ʾaẏṭ waẏyadanun wižqanam.
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Not sure specifically why, but I know a number of languages have [ɾ] initially and between vowels and [ɹ] next to consonants.احمکي ارش-ھجن wrote:Maybe it is unlikely, but for why? Is this not lenition?Zaarin wrote:ɾ/ɹ/V_V seems less likely to me, but ɾ/ɹ/_C is reasonably common. It happens (I believe) in some dialects of Aramaic, for example.احمکي ارش-ھجن wrote:Is the condition ɾ/ɹ/V_V possible? ɾ/ɹ/_C?
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
/4/ doesn't like being adjacent to consonants for obvious physical reasons.
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
I've got two diphthongs, /aɪ̯/ & /eɪ̯/. I want to have them undergo monphthongization. Probably to /a/ & /e/ respectively. However, before that happens, I was hoping that they might affect surrounding sounds. Are there any common changes that happen to surrounding consonants when diphthongs undergo monphthongization? One I can imagine (but don't want to use) is /aɪ̯/ causing palatalization on adjacent consonants, or even becoming /aj/.
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
I'm having trouble finding anything on the genesis of triphthongs.so, two questions:
1) Can someone give me a short, simple overview of how triphthongs are generated?
2) With a inventory of /i a u/ for short pure vowels, /i: a: u:/ for long ones, /w j/ for semivowels, and /iw iu aj ai au aw uj/ for diphthongs, what are some likely sound changes resulting in triphthongs?
1) Can someone give me a short, simple overview of how triphthongs are generated?
2) With a inventory of /i a u/ for short pure vowels, /i: a: u:/ for long ones, /w j/ for semivowels, and /iw iu aj ai au aw uj/ for diphthongs, what are some likely sound changes resulting in triphthongs?
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
1a) Through contraction of several adjacent syllables into one.Daistallia wrote:I'm having trouble finding anything on the genesis of triphthongs.so, two questions:
1) Can someone give me a short, simple overview of how triphthongs are generated?
1b) Through vowel breaking in certain positions.
1c) Through vocalization of consonants or reanalysis of semivowels in certain positions.
2a) Deletion of unstressed short vowels before /w j/ when followed by a stressed diphthong, e.g. */naˈjaw/ > /ni̯au̯/.2) With a inventory of /i a u/ for short pure vowels, /i: a: u:/ for long ones, /w j/ for semivowels, and /iw iu aj ai au aw uj/ for diphthongs, what are some likely sound changes resulting in triphthongs?
2b) Breaking of long vowels after complex onsets ending in one of /w j/, e.g. */kwiː/ > /ku̯ai̯/.
2c) Vocalization of /r l/ to [j w] when not word-initial or intervocalic, e.g. */praj/ > /pi̯ai̯/ or */twal/ > /tu̯au̯/.
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Hmm?????? I would think any three vowel language would have triphthongs already. But otherwise, I'd say soften all of your intervocalic voiced stops to fricatives, and then to approximants, and then to nothing. Possibly with infection of the preceding vowel if ytou prefer. e.g. /av/ > /u/, /až/ > /i/. Becuase /a/ doesnt like being an onset.
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Excellent - thanks both of you.
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
How about this?
Q = Velar or uvular
Qo Qu > Qʷɤ Qʷɯ
Q = Velar or uvular
Qo Qu > Qʷɤ Qʷɯ
- StrangerCoug
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
I find it a little suspect—I'm not expecting the vowel to unround. The reverse would be fine by me, though.
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Cheshirization of that sort is possible, yes. Most commonly this turns a more marked type of vowel into a less marked one (e.g. Cy > Cʲu or Cʷi) but it could happen otherwise as well. A very similar change *oːK > *ɤːKʷ is known from Mansi.
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
I have an idea for a sound change occuring in three alternative environments - that is, I'm going to pick only one of them, hence I don't write them as one sound change under three conditions.
n → ŋ → ŋk / _ʃ
n → ŋ → ŋk / _ʂ
n → ŋ → ŋk / _x
I wonder: was any of these changes attested?
n → ŋ → ŋk / _ʃ
n → ŋ → ŋk / _ʂ
n → ŋ → ŋk / _x
I wonder: was any of these changes attested?
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Only the last one really seems plausible to me. It's place assimilation and epenthesis of a stop at the same place as both consonants.
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