Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
Nortaneous wrote:all first-world countries have below-replacement fertility rates
Mi in tingk mi les ol op mata mi tok, soso bo - dem kol so - "fehs wohl" necan. Wen ol a dem go die sef, longga sis tosan milyon man kip.
I see no need to limit my remark to so-called "first-world" countries only. Even if they all would die, there's still six billion people left.
vampireshark wrote:
Ah, okay. But one normally says 'whitewash' in English for things that aren't as innocent...
(Explanation in English: The term "whitewash", at least how I've encountered it, is very commonly used in the sense of "cleaning up" a history or narrative to edit out the unsavory details, so one would describe a, for example, whitewashed history book. You really wouldn't say that you're going to "whitewash" a wall. It's in a bit of a similar vein to "propaganda", where it, at least in the US, has fairly negative connotations that are not there in other languages.)
Sauiritt. Thai ‹whitewash› o iadou mîre «Cua ohdui som mie», solo. Tohsim, î cin mîre sen sah ascarhian mie, solono piacthia sauchau ni eriaduoi. /ˈsowɪɾɪt || θɛː ˈwɛjtwaɕə ʊ ˈjɛðuː ˈmiːɾə | kwa ˈohdwi som mjə | ˈsolʊ || ˈtohsɪm | ˈiːkin miːɾə sən sah ˈɛskaɹjɪn mjə | ˈsolənʊ ˈpjakθja ˈsoːxoː ni ˈəɹjɪðwʊj/ know-1s. word 'whitewash' ADV be.original mean.3s "wall paint.3s be.white.3s REFL", however. nowadays, DEF DET meaning NEG.3s often use.3s REFL, because technique be.old.fashioned.3s and be.rural.3s. I know. The word 'whitewash' originally meant 'to paint a wall white*', though. Nowadays, this meaning is not used as often because the technique is old fashioned or mostly used on the countryside.
Such a word also exists in German with the same meaning: weißen.
Be careful: "whitewash" doesn't mean the same as "whiten".
'Witten' in Dutch means "to paint a wall white"
(You can't say: 'je tanden witten' to mean 'to whiten your teeth', for example)
Ah, okay. But one normally says 'whitewash' in English for things that aren't as innocent...
(Explanation in English: The term "whitewash", at least how I've encountered it, is very commonly used in the sense of "cleaning up" a history or narrative to edit out the unsavory details, so one would describe a, for example, whitewashed history book. You really wouldn't say that you're going to "whitewash" a wall. It's in a bit of a similar vein to "propaganda", where it, at least in the US, has fairly negative connotations that are not there in other languages.)
Yau tu uddarlochicun daicimun tar worrar whitewash a tan Germaniscan duchun tommu worru weißen parforten mochoris, nuc tu parfortun daicimun taifis worraifis schönfärben, rein waschen. thus ART-N.SG.ACC basic-N.SG.ACC meaning-SG.ACC ART-N.SG.GEN word-SG.GEN "whitewash" to ART-F.SG.ACC German-F.SG.ACC language-SG.ACC ART-N.SG.INSTR word-SG.INSTR "weißen" translate-INF can-3PL.PRES.ACT, but ART-N.SG.ACC transfer-PARTC.RES.PASS.N.SG.ACC meaning-SG.ACC ART-N.PL.INSTR word-PL.INSTR "schönfärben, rein waschen"
So the basic meaning of "whitewash" can be translated into German as weißen and the figurative meaning as schönfärben, rein waschen.
Additional remarks:
1) weißen actually isn't part of my idiolect; I use tünchen.
2) I'm aware that the figurative meaning "to cover up" is more frequent in texts; in writing, I've seen the basic meaning mostly in the saying "too poor to paint, too proud to whitewash".
Nortaneous wrote:all first-world countries have below-replacement fertility rates
Mi in tingk mi les ol op mata mi tok, soso bo - dem kol so - "fehs wohl" necan. Wen ol a dem go die sef, longga sis tosan milyon man kip.
I see no need to limit my remark to so-called "first-world" countries only. Even if they all would die, there's still six billion people left.
JAL
ʔiyaʔ t°aʔ ḍeymid ɴeʔ°ewaḍ
yeah and what have they done lately
Te naito hai kib, meste ku Kunaizi newo. Te naito hai kib, hâi ap meste anku, ku suto man.
[tɕe náɨθà̰ɨ cçỳ | mʲèɕːe qʊ kɨnáɨdʑɨ nǿ || tɕe náɨθà̰ɨ cçỳ | ɰáɨàp mʲèɕːà̰ɴqɨ | qʊ súθɨ màn] 3SG.OBJ talk OPT PT, king NEG Kunesia PT. 3SG.OBJ talk OPT PT, other person king as, NEG exist if Let's talk about the king Kunesia doesn't have. Let's talk about other rulers that don't exist.
Bôku Kunaizi du te tola newo setai. Pod kolu ap suto sor.
[bókʊ kɨnáɨdʑɨ dú tɕé tʰʌ́ɫɐ nǿ ɕéθɨ || pʰʌ̀ kʰóɫàp súθɨ sʌ̰̀r] power Kunesia PT 3SG.OBJ all PT be. 1PL.EXC.OBJ wise person exist PT. The power in Kunesia belongs to everyone. We have a president.
Kosse ti wati ed meste ap loka, ku zirku "kolu ap" asto nukaip era sor moê...
[kʰʌ̀ɕe tɕyβáθɨ è mʲèɕːàp lʌ́kɐ | qʊ dʑḭ̀ɾχʊ kʰóɫàp àstʊ núkɨp ǽɾɐ sʌ̰̀ɾ mé] some PL land PT king person have, NEG name wise person fall be.enough PT PT Some countries have rulers that don't deserve the title "wise person"...
Travis B. wrote:
I prefer kings and lords over democracy.
(in Tormiott):
Stach niâdono sen cga sauir i ruacan oimiagn porh starade /stax ˈɲɛːðənʊ sən ʔʕa ˈsowɪɹ i ˈɹwakɪn ˈʊjmjaːn poɹ ˈstaɾɪðə/
person be.single.3s NEG.3s can.3s know.3s CLAS thing-PL AUG-be.good-3p PREP country A single person cannot know what's best for a country.
Tô stan sorran senor da cgan sauirin. /toː stɛn ˈsorːɪn ˈsənəɹ da ʔʕɛn ˈsowɪɾɪn/
all person.PL be.together-3p neither 3p can-3p know-3p Neither can all people together.
Travis B. wrote:
I prefer kings and lords over democracy.
(in Tormiott):
Stach niâdono sen cga sauir i ruacan oimiagn porh starade /stax ˈɲɛːðənʊ sən ʔʕa ˈsowɪɹ i ˈɹwakɪn ˈʊjmjaːn poɹ ˈstaɾɪðə/
person be.single.3s NEG.3s can.3s know.3s CLAS thing-PL AUG-be.good-3p PREP country A single person cannot know what's best for a country.
You speak falsehoods! Orisho and his descendants have been given absolute power by the gods. His descendants have been very kind to us. Because of them we do not fear the evil men of the North.
Di pwoblam, fo olda taym, u man im af olda powa, im go sta bos af gut gut mining sef, im wil kac bat an korop wan de o noda, an olda man dem a mata bo im wil sway kip im de fi ples, an yu af diteta stet.
The problem, as always, is that someone having all power, even if he starts out ruling with the best of intentions, will sooner or later become evil and corrupt, and the people dependent on him wil try to keep him in place, and you have a dictatorship.
Wit is coré wiraifus eftar ainun corínun seftun decor, al píté decor cailaifus taifus frátorfus colligai nidétun. PRTC be-3SG.PRES.ACT.CLIT war-SG.LOC man-PL.DAT after one-M.SG.ACC commander-SG.ACC follow-SUP right.thing-SG.NOM, but peace-SG.LOC right.thing-SG.NOM all-M.PL.DAT ART-M.PL.DAT brother-PL.DAT together decide-SUP.
In war, all men should follow one commander, but in peace all brothers should decide together.
hwhatting wrote:Wit is coré wiraifus eftar ainun corínun seftun decor, al píté decor cailaifus taifus frátorfus colligai nidétun. PRTC be-3SG.PRES.ACT.CLIT war-SG.LOC man-PL.DAT after one-M.SG.ACC commander-SG.ACC follow-SUP right.thing-SG.NOM, but peace-SG.LOC right.thing-SG.NOM all-M.PL.DAT ART-M.PL.DAT brother-PL.DAT together decide-SUP.
In war, all men should follow one commander, but in peace all brothers should decide together.
Soap wrote:Does your language use terms for males as epicene, like English often does?
Tóci's, al to nés caila. so be-3SG.PRES.ACT but that-N.SG.NOM NEG-be-3SG.PRES.ACT whole-N.PL.NOM
Yes, but that's not the whole story.
(The Tautínai are a patriarchal society, so women aren't generally actively participating in politics, neither in war nor in peace. There are exceptions, but not sufficient to take them into account for general statements like this. The statement you refer to is, of course, written from an in-culture perspective.)
vampireshark wrote:
Ah, okay. But one normally says 'whitewash' in English for things that aren't as innocent...
(Explanation in English: The term "whitewash", at least how I've encountered it, is very commonly used in the sense of "cleaning up" a history or narrative to edit out the unsavory details, so one would describe a, for example, whitewashed history book. You really wouldn't say that you're going to "whitewash" a wall. It's in a bit of a similar vein to "propaganda", where it, at least in the US, has fairly negative connotations that are not there in other languages.)
Sauiritt. Thai ‹whitewash› o iadou mîre «Cua ohdui som mie», solo. Tohsim, î cin mîre sen sah ascarhian mie, solono piacthia sauchau ni eriaduoi. /ˈsowɪɾɪt || θɛː ˈwɛjtwaɕə ʊ ˈjɛðuː ˈmiːɾə | kwa ˈohdwi som mjə | ˈsolʊ || ˈtohsɪm | ˈiːkin miːɾə sən sah ˈɛskaɹjɪn mjə | ˈsolənʊ ˈpjakθja ˈsoːxoː ni ˈəɹjɪðwʊj/ know-1s. word 'whitewash' ADV be.original mean.3s "wall paint.3s be.white.3s REFL", however. nowadays, DEF DET meaning NEG.3s often use.3s REFL, because technique be.old.fashioned.3s and be.rural.3s. I know. The word 'whitewash' originally meant 'to paint a wall white*', though. Nowadays, this meaning is not used as often because the technique is old fashioned or mostly used on the countryside.
* with lime wash
Actually, in my experience the basic meaning of "whitewash" is "defeat in a sporting event in which victories are determined by the awarding of point, doing so with such dominance that no points at all are awarded to the vanquished".
I'm not sure whether "make bad situation look better" or "cover in white rendering" are more common for me.
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
Salmoneus wrote:
Actually, in my experience the basic meaning of "whitewash" is "defeat in a sporting event in which victories are determined by the awarding of point, doing so with such dominance that no points at all are awarded to the vanquished".
I'm not sure whether "make bad situation look better" or "cover in white rendering" are more common for me.
I can't say I've ever come across that meaning, personally. Either way, regardless of which meaning is more common nowadays, given the fact that the word is quite transparently constructed from the elements 'white' and 'wash', the 'wall paint' meaning is very likely to be the original one (as I said in my post).
I'd translate that into my conlang, but... not right now
Ku no qotte telep nai kilai tire sor.
[qɯ́ nʌ́ qʌ̀tɕe tɕéʎep náɨ cçílɨ tɕíɾe sʌ̀x] NEG 1SG.SUBJ wall white PT make FUT PT I'm not going to paint my walls white.
Telep nok pâhai mai.
[tɕéʎep nʌ̀k pá̰ɨ máɨ] white GNOM stand PRES They already are white.
Mi swel af dem way wol, ova dem ray won fi kola way, kos dem a dahti.
I have white walls too, but they need painting white anyway, since they are dirty.
[mjoɴ tsʰɑ na tsa mɛj jo na tsʰyj si ta tʰe mi nɑʔ tʂyh tʰu mjoɴ tsʰɑ na tsa mɛj jo na ʍuoʔ si ta tʰe mi kʰyøj nɑʔ ɲa]
My inner walls were often white, but my outer walls have not been white.
Ba ba ing u maons sran ing. On irns u arn us. here here word TOP few name word. ripe fruit TOP I mouth This language has few words. I'm eating some fruit.