Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

[the duke of nuke]

Pocketful, you're a legend!

[TomHChappell]

I get "Page Not Found" for all the superlush akana pages.

The only akana pages I was able to look at were the pzetler AkanaWiki maps.

[Radius Solis]

I get "Page Not Found" for all the superlush akana pages.

The only akana pages I was able to look at were the pzetler AkanaWiki maps.

This is expected downtime: see here.

-January pressure and winds
-July pressure and winds
-Ocean currents with ice caps and winter pack ice (dotted lines)

Seems climatology's the word of the week. I don't know if prevailing wind and current charts have been done but I didn't see them so I followed bricka's tutorial up to there. Maybe now I'll have time to edit my previous maps with Corumayas' observations.

Ayyyy! Once again, a beautiful job. Those are going to prove invaluable for refining the climate map, especially on the local scale.

[TzirTzi]

An update:

For various reasons, the transfer is proving more difficult than hoped. I've moved all my other sites, but the Akana wiki has a 148mb mySQL database, and the limit on imports in phpMyAdmin is 10mb. I'm currently waiting for the tech support staff to deal with that for me. But...

This morning, the homepage of the hosting I'm moving to has a firefox/google warning that it's been reported as a host of malicious software. Presumably something that a user hosted on there? Either way, highly unencouraging, and I can't access the site until they fix it. So I expect it'll be a few more days...

Edit: and another update: Not fully fixed because I can't get the subdomain working, but the wiki can now be accessed at http://tzirtzi.ipage.com/akana.

[Corumayas]

Also, Cedh and I have come to the conclusion that the Lukpanic cities probably have a population of around 15,000 to 25,000, with a whole city-state being about 60,000 to 90,000. As something of a confirmation, I bought a book today called A Short History of Progress by Ronald wright, about the collapse of civilisations, which estimates that a typical Sumerian city-state had about 42,000 of which more than two-thirds was in the central city (and that Uruk at its height reached 50,000 for the city alone).
Corumayas, does that seem right to you?

Well, I checked out both editions (1967 and 2002) of Colin McEvedy's Atlas of Ancient History. (I believe this is the series zompist's historical atlases are modelled on, btw.) McEvedy also coauthored an Atlas of World Population History (in 1978), and seems to be considered an expert in the subject.

In the first edition, he shows bronze age towns in the 10-15,000 range. He has 12 of these in 2250 BC (6 in Mesopotamia, 4 in Egypt, 2 in the Indus valley), and 18 in 1300 BC (mostly in the Fertile Crescent, but still 4 in Egypt, plus Hattusas). Beginning in 825 BC he has a few cities (starting with Babylon, Memphis, Nimrud, Nineveh, and Tyre) with around 30,000 (and comments that the average town of classical times was probably 5-15,000). And beginning in 145 BC a few major capitals (Alexandria, Antioch, Rome) reach 90-150,000.

In the second edition, many figures are revised downward (and early Egypt becomes much less urban). He says early Mesopotamian towns were in the 3-6,000 range; the 2250 BC map shows only those over 5,000 (13 in the Fertile Crescent, 2 in the Indus valley). Subsequent maps make 7,500 the lower limit-- in 1275 BC he shows 11 of these, all in the Fertile Crescent. In 670 BC Babylon is shown with 15,000, and Nineveh with 30,000 (which he calls "unprecedented" for that time)*; all other towns remain at 7,500, including Sidon and Tyre. In 415 BC Athens is estimated at 35,000, which is said to be "way above the norm" for a Greek town, most of which are too small to be shown.** For the same year, he puts Babylon at 30,000 and Carthage at 15,000; the other 8 towns he shows are still at 7,500. In 192 BC growth has finally begun to take off: there are 9 towns with 15,000, 4 (Antioch, Athens, Carthage, and Rome) are shown with 30,000 each, and Alexandria has 90,000. Rome reaches 250,000 by AD 14.

It's a little ambiguous whether all these numbers are meant to be the actual populations of the cities, or simply thresholds for assigning a new symbol-- in other words, when a city is shown with the 30,000 symbol, does he mean it's actually about 30,000, or 30,000 or more (but less than 90,000)? Sometimes he implies the first interpretation, sometimes the second.

He also gives some population estimates for regions. Each major river valley civilization has 750,000 total in 2250 BC (he says this in both editions). In the second edition, he assigns 2 million to each of Spain, France, Italy, Anatolia, Egypt, the Fertile Crescent, and Iran in 1275 BC; in 415 BC, Greece with the Aegean islands has 2.5 million (but is "conspicuously overpopulated"), and the Persian Empire 16 million.


So if there's an ongoing debate on the subject, McEvedy is clearly on the "small cities" side. If we accept his figures (especially from the 2nd edition), anything above 15,000 is probably too high for Bronze Age towns; even well into the Iron Age, cities bigger than that needed a small empire to sustain them.

I think it's fine if some of the Lukpanic cities are a bit bigger than this. But even so, they probably shouldn't all be the same size; maybe a few (say 2-3) are in the range you gave, but most are smaller?


*He quotes an inscription at Calah, an earlier Assyrian capital, that gives it a population of 16,000 when it was built in 879 BC. "This is a figure to treasure," he says, "as it's almost the only direct statement of a city's population to survive from antiquity."

**In the introduction to the 2nd edition, he emphasizes that Athens was exceptional in Greece-- most poleis were much less urban. As a typical small polis, he describes Megara as having 3,000 residing in the town, out of about 24,000 total. Later in the book, he implies that Sparta, with no town at all, had a total population around 100,000.

[TzirTzi]

And another update...

Cedh alerted me to the fact that session cookies weren't working so no-one could log in. That's now fixed . The site is still at http://tzirtzi.ipage.com/akana, however.

[Corumayas]

Thanks TzirTzi. Your continued hosting generosity is much appreciated.

-January pressure and winds
-July pressure and winds
-Ocean currents with ice caps and winter pack ice (dotted lines)

So I read through bricka's climate cookbook with these maps in hand, and I have a few questions/comments.

-On the January map, why don't the intertropical and continental low pressure zones in the southern hemisphere link up with the polar front? And shouldn't there be a (small) low pressure region in the southeastern twin too?

-On both pressure maps, why are there large high-pressure zones in the oceans on the winter side? Bricka makes it sound like winter oceans should be dominated by low pressure zones linked up with the polar front, with just a narrow belt for the subtropical high pressure zone.

-On the other hand, I'm guessing the oceanic pressure systems should always extend into the western part of each continent slightly (otherwise I don't know how to get the deserts and Mediterranean climates that are supposed to exist on west coasts).

-It seems like the both the subtropical high and the polar front may be closer to the poles than they should be-- shouldn't they be hanging out near 30° and 60° respectively (over the oceans, at least)?

-I also feel like maybe the pressure belts should move more with the seasons-- especially if we decide to have a larger axial tilt than Earth's. (We should probably pick a number for this before going too much further here!)

-What exactly do the large black arrows represent?

-The ocean currents don't entirely match what bricka describes either; but he admits to simplifying quite a bit there.

-In general, am I right in guessing that your maps are informed by more than just bricka's page? (If so, excellent! If not, I'm confused.)


Nitpicking aside, these maps are both pretty and extremely helpful. Thanks again for making them!

[Cedh]

I'd like to announce that Ìletlégbàku and Ishoʻu ʻOhu now have a reasonably stable sister language: Doayâu.

It looks quite divergent at first sight, but that's mostly the result of just four innovative sound changes. Most other developments have parallels in one or both of the other Coastal Western descendants.
- *a > *ə > *ɨ > u adjacent to labials, i elsewhere
- *b > *w > *ɣ > g
- *dz, *z > r
- complete loss of *ʔ, combined with elision of *j *w *ɣ adjacent to *i *u *a respectively.

I'm also letting in quite a lot of Lukpanic influence in syntax (most of which still needs to be described, but it's quite clear in my mind already). In particular, head-initial constructions become increasingly common, to the point that the default word order is now SVO or (T)VSO; I'm not quite sure which of these fits better.

[EDIT]
Also, a fun fact: The Doayâu phrase bàyu tau "on the hill" looks like it could be a reflex of the Proto-Western equivalent *γʷeyeʔu tabe, but the words are the other way around. bàyu "on" is actually a reflex of PW *kʷẽdu "head", while tau "hill" is a loan from Proto-Lukpanic *taəl "mountain".

[Corumayas]

Nifty!

As a result of looking at this, I seem to be working on the Siŋmeasita dialect of Lukpanic (tentatively Hu Shimyashta)... so far I'm looking at sound changes, and debating how close it should be to the Kpitamoa dialect (of course it'll also have some developments shared with other dialects-- especially Isi-- and others unique to it). Since it's supposed to be one of the two most prestigious dialects, it could be a source of loans for the whole Coastal region. If you guys have any ideas or preferences about what it should be like, let me know!

(I don't think I'll create a Coastal Western dialect for there though-- for one thing that's more work than I want to commit to at the moment, and also it sounds like Doayâu is going to be spoken there anyway.)

[dunomapuka]

As a result of looking at this, I seem to be working on the Siŋmeasita dialect of Lukpanic (tentatively Hu Shimyashta)... so far I'm looking at sound changes, and debating how close it should be to the Kpitamoa dialect (of course it'll also have some developments shared with other dialects-- especially Isi-- and others unique to it). Since it's supposed to be one of the two most prestigious dialects, it could be a source of loans for the whole Coastal region. If you guys have any ideas or preferences about what it should be like, let me know!

Nice. I like the way Shimyashta sounds. Also, I put some stuff up on Lukpanic numbers.

[Radius Solis]

You should put up lots on Lukpanic, if you have the inclination - given how much interest it has generated. If you like I would be happy to assist in making up vocab.


Cedh - Doayâu looks great, as usual!

[Cedh]

Thanks!

BTW, while working on the Doayâu lexicon today I came across two blatantly obvious correspondences with Edastean, which will surely be food for the Akana counterparts of Octaviano:

Doayâu bàri- 'to have, to possess' < PCW bèdza- < PW *bẽdza-
Adāta bare 'to have, to own' < NT bâre

Doayâu bapu 'blood; strength' < PCW *goku < PW *kʷacu
Adāta baphor 'strength' < NT bambor

[the duke of nuke]

Corumayas: I think about 8,000 to 12,000 would do for most of the cities, up to 15,000 to 20,000 for the largest (Ishe and Shimyashta). Having 15-25% of the population of a given city-state in the central city seems reasonable, especially considering the massively urbanised Sumerian civilisation.
How does that sound?

Akana counterparts of Octaviano

Whatever happened to Saphamix?
Actually, what positions are currently open to interesting Akanaran figures who weren't kings?

[Radius Solis]

Actually, what positions are currently open to interesting Akanaran figures who weren't kings?

All of them.

Seriously, invent as many individual Akanarans, in whatever roles, as you like. Maybe we should each invent a couple right now. Just brief mentions, as an exercise in populating this planet, however sketchily. I'll start.


Leshim, a playwright in Påwe from the 120s to the 140s YP. In fact probably the only playright there at the time, theater not being a well installed cultural art in Påwe before he came on the scene. Credited as the father of a local dramatic tradition. Though few plays from the genre survived into later ages, two of his did, full of social commentary providing historians a valuable record of the issues and mores of his era from a Kascan perspective (most other such records are from the Fáralo). One of the two - L-ire a Suronën, "The Day of Suronën" - deals with the Kascans' deep unease with Huyfárah, their alien and far more powerful neighbor to the north; it develops a lighter foreground plot against this constant note of background tension. Such foreground-background contrasts were characteristic of the Påwe dramatic style.

Queen Cweod, ruler of the Kennan, 213 - 219 YP. A fierce lady, she fought her way to the top of the warrior class, beheading the prior king in a formal challenge. But she grew bored with the lack of action at the top and abdicated a few years later (amid accusations of incompetence to rule), taking a cohort with her off into the wilderness to subdue heathens. She was credited for numerous pointed one-liners that became common Kennan expressions. One such translates "bees don't have babies", a caution to other female fighters against becoming mothers - or perhaps declaring all warriors to be male in practice regardless of actual sex. Both meanings seem to be wrapped up in it. (Ironically, she had a child of her own, presumably at a later date than the saying. Little more is known of him.) This is just one among hundreds of such sayings on all manner of topics. Cweod died in battle with the Sau, a tribe of the interior, in 220.

[Corumayas]

Corumayas: I think about 8,000 to 12,000 would do for most of the cities, up to 15,000 to 20,000 for the largest (Ishe and Shimyashta). Having 15-25% of the population of a given city-state in the central city seems reasonable, especially considering the massively urbanised Sumerian civilisation.
How does that sound?

That sounds fine to me. (Maybe there's a third tier of small towns too, in the 3-6,000 range.)

I've have some more thoughts about the placement of the cities. First, since Pigbaea is meant to be on the route to Lake Wañelin, shouldn't it be near the mouth of the river that flows from the lake? Or maybe up that river a ways, if its lower reaches are navigable by ship. It looks like it should flow into the next bay to the east from where you put Pigbaea on this map-- the one that's shaped kinda like Michigan. (I suggest we call this river the Šetâ-- which I think is the Šetâmol reflex of Çetázó çetáza 'flowing out'... unless we want something less transparently related to their language name, of course. The coastal peoples might have a different name for it, too.)

Since it's explicitly a late-founded trading colony, I have no issue with Pigbaea being further from the Lukpanic homeland; and that bay looks like a particularly good spot for a new littoral community to take root and grow. (Another such place is the peninsula + islands at the west end of the coast-- if there's anything to trade out there, the Lukpanic people might found a few colonies there too. I doubt they'd have time to develop dialects significantly different from their founding cities', and they probably wouldn't get as big as the home cities before the Coastal Western conquest.)

As for the home cities, I still think most of them should be on that peninsula-- which cedh recently named Naunupai (though its derivation isn't entirely clear to me: where does nãu 'land' come from?)-- and which seems to be roughly comparable in size to peninsular Greece; but Naəgbum could be further east, maybe as far as the coast around where Pigbaea is currently drawn... this might help make room for the westernmost cities to move east.

Also, it'd be cool to have a city or two down at the tip of the peninsula. Maybe Isi or Siŋmeasita could be there... or one we haven't named yet (the Lukpanic page says there are about a dozen cities... so far we have 8 counting Pigbaea).

[Cedh]

As for the home cities, I still think most of them should be on that peninsula-- which cedh recently named Naunupai (though its derivation isn't entirely clear to me: where does nãu 'land' come from?)

It was meant to come from lamil 'earth, soil' (via lãil > lãiw > lãu > nãu); the loss of /i/ is somewhat irregular in this word. If there are more Lukpanic cities on the peninsula (which I support, like the rest of your proposals), the name could maybe be changed to something from the dialect first encountered by pre-Doayâu speakers. When I coined it, I was working from the first version of the map which had Kpitamoa as the only city on the peninsula.

Another thing that just occurred to me, looking at that map: We seem to have a shortage of Western languages in their original homeland! The Tmaśareʔ are quite far south, in the Kipceʔ desert; the Coastal, Steppe, and Lake peoples are quite far north. The Gezoro/Tjakori branch have long moved to the other side of the mountains, and if the speakers of Shtåså also cross into Xšali territory, the speakers of Empotle7á can't occupy the whole area between the Kipceʔ and the Wañelinlawag. IMO this gap could be filled in one or more of the following ways: (a) the Wañelinlawag empire extends to the coast, and maybe even further south towards the urheimat; (b) Caedes' ongoing revision of Hośər is not a replacement, but an additional language, and one of these two is spoken near the urheimat; (c) a yet undescribed language of the Lake or Gezoro branch is spoken in that area. What do you think?

Whatever happened to Saphamix?

Seriously, invent as many individual Akanarans, in whatever roles, as you like. Maybe we should each invent a couple right now. Just brief mentions, as an exercise in populating this planet, however sketchily. I'll start.

Great idea! I have mentioned a few people already, such as that Saphamix; I'll see if I can write up a short paragraph about each of them these days.

[the duke of nuke]

All sounds good to me.

About the language gap: I don't have a preference either way. I have plenty of languages to deal with already...

About the cities: Sounds good. In my view there shouldn't be any Lukpanic settlement past the "Michigan-shaped bay", and apart from Pigbaea they should be a bit further west. Redistribute the cities as best fits - I'd prefer that Isi isn't actually on the Naunupai peninsula but it doesn't matter too much.
If there are smaller ones, would they have their own poleis, or would they be subject to larger cities?

About the personages: Good to know I may introduce a few important engineers soon, exams permitting!

[Corumayas]

In my view there shouldn't be any Lukpanic settlement past the "Michigan-shaped bay", and apart from Pigbaea they should be a bit further west. Redistribute the cities as best fits - I'd prefer that Isi isn't actually on the Naunupai peninsula but it doesn't matter too much.

Ok. Keeping Isi where it is seems fine. (But in that case I think we should definitely invent at least one or two more cities on the peninsula.) It occurs to me now that having Doanu and Iəvaku further west might make sense if they're early colonies rather than home cities (as I suspect Naəgbum is, too).

If there are smaller ones, would they have their own poleis, or would they be subject to larger cities?

Could be some of each, I suppose? Maybe they all start out independent, but some later fall under the sway of the larger cities as those grow.


About the language gap: a possibility Cedh didn't mention is another Western branch, if we want to allow one... but there might be some constraints on that. Based on sound changes that are shared among the first-generation Western daughters, I believe that they come from a dialect continuum that was shaped something like this:

Code: Select all

     Çetázó
       /\
 Iŋomóe--Empotleʔá
     | >< |
Coastal--Tmaśareʔ--Gezoro

Or to put it another way: Gezoro left first, but stayed in contact with Tmaśareʔ longer than with the other dialects; and Çetázó left second, but stayed in contact with Iŋomóe and Empotleʔá for a while (suggesting that they were further north than the remaining two). The four central dialects were all still in contact with each other after Gez. and Çet. left.

The important point here, in my opinion, is that, if my interpretation is correct, Empotleʔá was originally spoken further north than Proto-Coastal. One thing this implies, I think, is that the migration of Coastal speakers into the Lukpanic region must either go around the Empotleʔá speakers somehow, or overrun them. (Given how narrow the coastal corridor is, the latter seems more likely to me.) Another implication is that there might be descendants of Proto-Coastal that stayed down in the Western homeland. Other than that, it seems to me (again, since the corridor is so narrow) than any lang(s) spoken between Coastal and Tmaśareʔ must either fall between them on the dialect continuum, or have moved into the region when those groups left (or after), as in Cedh's suggestions above of a Lake or Gezoro language.

* * *

EDIT: Actually, on thinking about it some more I realize that there are other ways of drawing that diagram that don't put Coastal in the south; for example:

Code: Select all

     Iŋomóe--Çetázó
      / | \  /
Coastal-+-Empotleʔá  
      \ | /
     Tmaśareʔ--Gezoro

...so what I wrote above should be taken with a healthy sprinkling of salt.

* * *


Radius: cool! I like the idea of a collection of brief bios like those. I'll try to do a few too, a little later.

[the duke of nuke]

Corumayas - that new dialect diagram looks pretty consistent with what we've got so far. Well spotted.

Do we have any information on the Isles languages, beyond what's on the wiki? I'm writing about a mediaeval sea captain and it would be very useful if we had a bit more on the languages of the Ttiruku Arc.

[Basilius]

Do we have any information on the Isles languages, beyond what's on the wiki? I'm writing about a mediaeval sea captain and it would be very useful if we had a bit more on the languages of the Ttiruku Arc.

I suggest that you simply invent new peoples and languages (even if known only by name) - as many as you need. The isle of Ttiruku and its vicinities are supposed to be inhabited by a hundred tribes speaking most diverse languages; we'll never describe all of them in any detail, I think.

Also, together with Radius' proposal about adding more historical personnages, this reminds me of an old idea of mine: I think the type of individuals that is especially welcome is writers. Because they write texts that can supply evidence for some historical concepts, as well as material for translation exercises.

I think a lot of interesting pieces from earlier discussions in the Cursed Thread can be attributed to various local authors (with minimum editing).

In particular, I'd rewrite some of my own postings (like e. g. this one about Ttiruku) so they'd look like passages from some popular book composed by an early-modern romantic-minded historian.

If later on we find out that some details in such writings are inaccurate, we can always declare the texts apocryphical or representing later politically biased adaptations/translations (or somesuch), but still valid as historical/linguistic sources of sorts.

[Arzena]

EDIT: Yedzéowulú probably should be moved to the -1600s to fit in with Lukpanic expansion during that era.

On Radius's recommendation to add people to Akana, I have a (edit: really) short bio of

Yedzéowulú of Kulúéngi:

Yedzéowulú was a speaker of Empotle7á who was born around -1980 YP. During his adolescence, he and twenty-five others from the village of Kulúéngi were kidnapped by slavers from the Lukpanic city of Poalugbum.

Yedzéowulú was purchased by a merchant named Biusiŋmaukeb and assigned as menial work in his warehouse. Through chance, hard work, and a little homosexual affair*, Yedzéowulú purchased his freedom and became the chief overseer of Biusiŋmaukeb's commercial affairs.

*it wasn't so much the homosexuality as the 'having sex with your slave, a friggin' ẽpolea' part. But until further knowledge of Lukpanic sexual mores are known,we cannot say more on this matter.

When Biusiŋmaukeb died, he bequeathed a quarter of his fortune to Yedzéowulú. With the money, he set up a tin mining operation near his home village of Kulúéngi. Yedzéowulú became a moderately successful maritime businessman, selling tin mined from the Coastal Corridor to bronze smithies in Poalugbum.
He died around age 58 in -1922 YP. Yedzéowulú is significant because he wrote a bilingual memoir in the Poalugbum dialect and Empotle7á; two copies survive in the Royal Texozonon II Museum of History in Athalé.

[the duke of nuke]

Awesome stuff Arzena Looking at it, I think sometime between about -1600 and -1100 would probably be best.

Basilius: The chap I'm writing about, Sietan nasielo Ñareled from the city of Mendia (Mæmedéi) is going to make some sea voyages to the Ttirukuan Archipelago and I promise that he will be writing about it. He can be one of the primary sources for your account of Ttirukuan history.
At the moment I think he will encounter city-states at a similar level to those of Mesoamerica in the first millenium BC (though culturally not so similar; the Coastal Western states have plenty of Aztec influence), with reasonably developed architecture and organisation, but no writing or metallurgy to speak of. They probably have at least some trade gooods of interest to the Mendians, who will certainly be able to trade metals and other goods to the natives.

EDIT: Does anybody have a copy of the grammar for Zele? That might be of some use, since post-Zeluzh settlers will probably have some presence on the islands, and Zeluzhia was a fairly substantial state. It's also hinted that Naxuutayi was something of a lingua franca in the Sumarušuxi archipelago.

[Basilius]

thedukeofnuke: sounds very promising :)

Do we have any information on the Isles languages, beyond what's on the wiki?

The wiki + what it links to. There've been some discussions in the Thread, but I don't think we reached much of a consensus...

Or do you mean primarily the peoples? There were some interesting ideas about their migrations and lifestyle. Check here and here and here and also here and here and here, and the discussions around those messages :)

I'm writing about a mediaeval sea captain and it would be very useful if we had a bit more on the languages of the Ttiruku Arc.

How much is "mediaeval" if counted in YP's? :)

I think that the beginning of Ttiruku's local Early Classical Era was roughly synchronous with the decline of Faralo, but we can decide that it happened later.

And before Early Classical Era there were the Invasions (0 -300 YP should be within this epoch, plus unknown number of centuries before and after).

And before Invasions there were the migrations of the Isles peoples.

Basilius: The chap I'm writing about, Sietan nasielo Ñareled from the city of Mendia (Mæmedéi) is going to make some sea voyages to the Ttirukuan Archipelago and I promise that he will be writing about it. He can be one of the primary sources for your account of Ttirukuan history.
At the moment I think he will encounter city-states at a similar level to those of Mesoamerica in the first millenium BC (though culturally not so similar; the Coastal Western states have plenty of Aztec influence), with reasonably developed architecture and organisation, but no writing or metallurgy to speak of. They probably have at least some trade gooods of interest to the Mendians, who will certainly be able to trade metals and fabrics to the natives.

Did we canonize Salmoneus' idea about floating settlements of early Isles tribes etc.? I sort of liked it. If we do, that's what would strike a traveller who'd visit the area before the Invasions.

During the Invasions most military and nautical technologies available at the time were brought to the islands.

And after the Invasions they become an advanced region, with (alliances of) local city-states quickly gaining power and influence.

BTW, what if we transfer the discussion of these matters to Akana Forum? They don't have much to do with Relay-2, IMO.

Does anybody have a copy of the grammar for Zele? That might be of some use, since post-Zeluzh settlers will probably have some presence on the islands, and Zeluzhia was a fairly substantial state.

I have what was online, like, a year ago, but it's on my other computer (I'll be there later today). How can I share it?

Don't expect too much, though, it's a very short description.

[dunomapuka]

EDIT: Yedzéowulú probably should be moved to the -1600s to fit in with Lukpanic expansion during that era.

That still seems way too early for the level of civilization you've described here. I'd put it at least after -1000.

[the duke of nuke]

Ah, fair enough. Seems I don't have a very good grasp of the history... I'll read through the posts.
"Mediaeval", as I understand it, is about 900 YP on. Although I'm told the technology isn't up to terrestrial mediaeval levels. In that case, Sietan would arrive after the Early Classical period (he's supposed to be part of the revival of exploration); at the moment I have him encountering city-states, but rather primitive ones.
I'll send you my e-mail address. And yes, let's move this to the Akana forum.