Post your conlang's phonology

[Risla]

Can syllabic consonants have creaky voice?

If so,

So let it be written...so let it be done!

SURE

ALSO THERE ARE NINE REGISTER TONES

I'M THINKING I'LL HAVE THE ORTHOGRAPHY LIKE THIS:

CONSONANTS: W
VOWELS: V

THE QUALITIES OF THESE ARE INFERRED BASED ON CONTEXT, THAT HAPPENS IN REAL SCRIPTS ALL THE TIME

[Risla]

[p̪ʷʲŋɐˤ:ʎ̥˔ʔʰʷɞˤ ɱɢʷʲʎ̥˔ʔʰʷʊˤɳɶɸʷʲ ʢʲθʷʘʷʲuɺ̢u ʁəˤlʡ̯e̞ βgʷɒˤɣɴägʎ̯ fθʲæjn]

DIDN'T YOU LOOK AT THE SYLLABLE STRUCTURE I SAID ABOVE? EACH SYLLABLE HAS TO HAVE EXACTLY THAT MANY CONSONANTS

[MisterBernie]

[p̪ʷʲŋɐˤ:ʎ̥˔ʔʰʷɞˤ ɱɢʷʲʎ̥˔ʔʰʷʊˤɳɶɸʷʲ ʢʲθʷʘʷʲuɺ̢u ʁəˤlʡ̯e̞ βgʷɒˤɣɴägʎ̯ fθʲæjn]

DIDN'T YOU LOOK AT THE SYLLABLE STRUCTURE I SAID ABOVE? EACH SYLLABLE HAS TO HAVE EXACTLY THAT MANY CONSONANTS

I was giving a phonetic transcription, because every natural language deviates a bit from phonemic values.

Phonemically, I'd give it as
/ɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷuǂɣʷǂɣʷǂɣʷǂɣʷǂɣʷǂɣʷǂɣʷ ʎ̯lmʎ̯lmʎ̯lmmlleprprstʐʔʰʲnɳɲŋɴm sʷzʷkʷʒʷʂʷʎ̯ʈʰʈʰʈʰʈʰʈʰʈʰiɸʲβʲfʲvʲθʲðʲsʲzʲʃʲʒʲʂʲʐʲçʲʝʲ ɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷɣʷu˧ǂɣʷǂɣʷǂɣʷǂɣʷǂɣʷǂɣʷǂɣʷ ʎ̯lmʎ̯lmʎ̯lmmlle˨prprstʐʔʰʲnɳɲŋɴm sʷzʷkʷʒʷʂʷʎ̯ʈʰʈʰʈʰʈʰʈʰʈʰi˥ɸʲβʲfʲvʲθʲðʲsʲzʲʃʲʒʲʂʲʐʲçʲʝʲ/

[Risla]

WELL OKAY THAT LOOKS REASONABLE

THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT

ONTO GRAMMAR RULES

I'LL GO MAKE A THREAD FOR IT!

[Jetboy]

WELL OKAY THAT LOOKS REASONABLE

THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT

ONTO GRAMMAR RULES

I'LL GO MAKE A THREAD FOR IT!

Go for it Risla! GO FOR IT!

[Drydic]

Epic posts are epic.

[Risla]

COPYPASTE because attention.

Phonology idea (fo rlz this time), inspired by Classical Greek and Salishan languages:

1. /m n ŋ/ <m n ŋ>
2. /pʰ tʰ kʰ kʷʰ qʰ qʷʰ/ <ph th kh khw qh qhw>
3. /p t k kʷ q qʷ ʔ/ <p t k kw q qw '>
4. /b d g gʷ/ <b d g gw>
5. /ps ts ks kʷsʷ qs qʷsʷ/ <ps ts ks ksw qs qsw>
6. /θ s χ h/ <þ s x h>
7. /r l/ <r l>
8. /j w/ <y w>

/i u e o a iː uː eː oː ɛː ɔː aː/ <i u e o a ī ū ē ō ê ô ā>

Maximal syllable structure is:

sC/[P(L)/[p/k/k_w/q/q_w][t_h/t/d/ts]]VC

where P is anything in 2, 3, 4 or 6 (except /ʔ/), L is 7, and C is any consonant except /ʔ/.

This allows for some relatively massive clusters. A word like <sqtsomskwtsix> /sqt͡somskʷt͡siχ/ is perfectly legal.

/ʔ/ may only occur in contrast with anything intervocalically, so, i.e., <psa'êm> contrasts with <psaêm>.

/ŋ/ may only occur syllable-finally.

Allophony:

In any cluster where obstruents occur in sequence, the first obstruent assimilates in laryngeal features to the second obstruent. This means that [ɢ] does occur in the language but is just not phonemic.

• [-son] → [αLAR] / _[αLAR]

Word-final consonants are devoiced and undergo fortition: /b d g/ become [p t k], /r l/ become [ʂ ɬ] and /j w/ become [ç xʷ]. The sonorants also undergo these changes preceding or following an aspirated stop.

• [-son] → [-vce] _#
• [-syll, -nas] → [-vce, -son] / _# ; _[+asp] ; [+asp]_

Intervocalically, voiced stops are lenited to .

• [-vce, -son] → [+cont] / V_V

Labialized consonants /kʰʷ qʰʷ kʷ qʷ gʷ w/ completely labialize any cluster they occur in. This is relevant in the nasal-assimilation rules below.

• [-syll] → [+lab] / _[+lab] ; [+lab]_

Before /j i/, /ps ts ks kʷsʷ qs qʷsʷ s/ palatalize to become [pʃ tʃ kʃ kʷʃʷ qʃ qʷʃʷ ʃ].

• [+cor] → [-ant] / _[-cons, -back]

/n/ place-assimilates to any following obstruent. /ŋ/ only assimilates to dorsal obstruents. /m/ only assimilates when the following obstruent is labialized.

• [+nas, +cor] → [αPLACE] / _[αPLACE, -son]
  [+nas, +lab] → [αPLACE] / _[αPLACE, -son, +lab]
  [+nas, +dors] → [αPLACE] / _[αPLACE, -son, +dors]

The high vowels /i/ and /u/ lower to [e] and [o] before uvular consonants, and /j/ is lowered to [e̯].

• [-cons] → [-high] / _[+cons, -high]

[ná'oolkiłí]

Is there a reason you're counting /ps ks kʷsʷ qs qʷsʷ/ as single phonemes rather than clusters of two phonemes other than syllable structure? If so I would just adjust the syllable structure slightly.

[sirdanilot]

^^ Love that phonology ! Rather dissappointed there where no ejectives, but that's simply because I have this ejective fetish.

That word is actually surprisingly easy to pronounce, with some practice. I think that's a good thing; I personally prefer to be able to pronounce my conlangs.

Why is glottal stop not allowed at the end of a word? I find it perfectly easy to pronounce. Again, believe it or not, you hit one of my personal fetishes: word-final glottal stop... (I just think they sound really cool, I have absolutely no idea why though)

Now the major points: firstly, I think the dental fricative, being the only dental in the language, is a bit too much in there. It doesn't belong. Better have an /f/ or a bilabial fricative. You could also add a /x/ versus /χ/ contrast in there, which seems perfectly symmetric. Then, phonemic /ps ks kʷsʷ qs qʷsʷ/? Really? Affricates should be at more or less the same point of articulation (note the more or less, for things like /pf/ are still affricates). You could go this route: /͡pf ͡kx ͡kʷ͡xʷ ͡qχ ͡qʷ͡χʷ/ Personally, I can pronounce all of those with ease. If you want to keep your clusters with all the sibilants, you'll need some more complicated phonotactics, which is a fun thing though.

Word-final consonants are devoiced and undergo fortition: /b d g/ become [p t k], /r l/ become [ʂ ɬ] and /j w/ become [ç xʷ]. The sonorants also undergo these changes preceding or following an aspirated stop.

I'm not sure how reasonable these are, but I must admit it's quite awesome.

[Risla]

^^ Love that phonology ! Rather disappointed there were no ejectives, but that's simply because I have this ejective fetish.

I love ejectives and almost included them, but I decided that having four plosive series would just be too much for my tastes, and I wanted to stay relatively close to the Greek influence too.

Why is glottal stop not allowed at the end of a word? I find it perfectly easy to pronounce. Again, believe it or not, you hit one of my personal fetishes: word-final glottal stop... (I just think they sound really cool, I have absolutely no idea why though)

It's nothing about being easy-to-pronounce; I just like having some phonemes with marginal distribution, and South Eresian is quite the glottalstopfest.

Now the major points: firstly, I think the dental fricative, being the only dental in the language, is a bit too much in there. It doesn't belong. Better have an /f/ or a bilabial fricative. You could also add a /x/ versus /χ/ contrast in there, which seems perfectly symmetric.

First of all, I am quite disinclined to keep the inventory symmetrical, since perfect symmetry often seems artificial, and having a /x h/ distinction is fairly uncommon too. And lots of languages have phonemes that are isolated at a PoA; hell, English dental fricatives are pretty damn isolated, as we only have fricatives at the interdental PoA. Just like this language.

Then, phonemic /ps ks kʷsʷ qs qʷsʷ/? Really? Affricates should be at more or less the same point of articulation (note the more or less, for things like /pf/ are still affricates). You could go this route: /͡pf ͡kx ͡kʷ͡xʷ ͡qχ ͡qʷ͡χʷ/ Personally, I can pronounce all of those with ease. If you want to keep your clusters with all the sibilants, you'll need some more complicated phonotactics, which is a fun thing though.

Who said they were affricates? I never claimed them to be affricates, because they are indeed not homorganic (except /ts/, but that patterns like the others, which are not). That said, they pattern like affricates in the language. I'm treating them as phonemes because they pattern like phonemes within the language; if I were to treat them like clusters, then I would have to explain why a) they are the only clusters that may occur syllable-finally and b) why such a cluster may occur before /s/ and be maintained as [(T)ss] within speech, while other clusters simplify, i.e. /θθ/ just becomes [θ] and, indeed, /ss/ becomes [s] (which is a rule that I should have written above; I'll edit my post), whereas clusters of non-identical things do assimilate to each other in certain ways but do not simplify, i.e. /pp/ becomes [p] but /p_hp/ becomes [pp].

Word-final consonants are devoiced and undergo fortition: /b d g/ become [p t k], /r l/ become [ʂ ɬ] and /j w/ become [ç xʷ]. The sonorants also undergo these changes preceding or following an aspirated stop.

I'm not sure how reasonable these are, but I must admit it's quite awesome.

Word-final obstruent devoicing is ridiculously common cross-linguistically. The phenomenon of sonorant spirantization is found in at least Cakchiquel, so it's definitely not unheard of.

[sirdanilot]

Then, phonemic /ps ks kʷsʷ qs qʷsʷ/? Really? Affricates should be at more or less the same point of articulation (note the more or less, for things like /pf/ are still affricates). You could go this route: /͡pf ͡kx ͡kʷ͡xʷ ͡qχ ͡qʷ͡χʷ/ Personally, I can pronounce all of those with ease. If you want to keep your clusters with all the sibilants, you'll need some more complicated phonotactics, which is a fun thing though.

Who said they were affricates? I never claimed them to be affricates, because they are indeed not homorganic (except /ts/, but that patterns like the others, which are not). That said, they pattern like affricates in the language. I'm treating them as phonemes because they pattern like phonemes within the language; if I were to treat them like clusters, then I would have to explain why a) they are the only clusters that may occur syllable-finally and b) why such a cluster may occur before /s/ and be maintained as [(T)ss] within speech, while other clusters simplify, i.e. /θθ/ just becomes [θ] and, indeed, /ss/ becomes [s] (which is a rule that I should have written above; I'll edit my post), whereas clusters of non-identical things do assimilate to each other in certain ways but do not simplify, i.e. /pp/ becomes [p] but /p_hp/ becomes [pp].

a) Restrictions in clusters are very normal. Take Dutch for example (a language with plenty of clusters): the maximum coda that can occur is CCst such as in /hɛrfst/ "autumn", /stɛrkst/ "strongest". Something like *stɛrksp is impossible. So only allowing /s/ in coda-clusters is completely normal, indeed, even attested. Are we going to analyze /ks/ as one phoneme in Dutch? Of course not. I'm not denying non-homorganic clusters can never be phonemic, but it's certainly something you shouldn't just throw into your phonology unless there's absolutely no other way to analyze it.
b) This makes no sense at all. /pʰp/ -»[pp], what is that even? A geminate /p/? Simply two [p]s following each other? I doubt the latter will be stable. I do not understand your (T) statement; what is [(T)ss]?

[Risla]

[pp] is exactly equal to [p:]. They are just two different methods of writing the exact same thing, and both of these manners are acceptable when writing in IPA.

And otherwise, it just seems simplest to consider these to be single phonemes, for the reasons I stated. Also heterorganic affricates are attested in natlangs.

(also I am only really considering them phonemes to annoy Nort by having /ks/, as mentioned in the other thread)

[Nortaneous]

How did I know?

Also, I think most claims of heterorganic affricates are products of analysis. In Sotho, at least, it looks like they're just palatalized labials where the palatalization is sometimes realized as [S]. And even there, they vary with homorganic affricates. And Navajo just has velar aspiration, which IIRC only contrasts before /e/ anyway.

[Risla]

Well, to be fair, a lot of affricates are products of analysis. It'd certainly be possible to analyze them out of, say, English, it's just not the simplest way of analyzing them.

[roninbodhisattva]

An idea inspired by thinking about Cahokia

Consonants /p t k kʷ ts tɬ s h m n w l/
Vowels: /i e o a ia/

Words may begin in a vowel, single consonants, or nasal + stop/affricate cluster. Medial clusters include such nasal clusters and /l/ + /m n h w/ and /h/ + stop/affricate. Words may end in /t k kʷ ts n/.

[Foolster41]

Salthan:

Consonants: (12)

Code: Select all

                      bilabial  labialdental | dental  aveolar | postalveolar | retroflex | palatal | velar | Uvular | Pharyngal | Glutural
Plosive                                                         t   d           Ɉ                                                        k
Nasal                                                                 n       
tap or flap                                                                       ɽ
fricative                         f                      Θ        s           ʃ                                                                                                          h
lateral aprox.                                                    l

Vowels: (5)

Code: Select all

                     front    near-center   central   near-back back
close             i                                                                   u
close-mid                                                                         o
mid                                                    ɘ
open-mid                                                                          ʌ
open

Dipthongs (1) /ai/

Non-Pulmonic Consonants (2): | (Dental) ! ( (Post)Aveloar)

I'm not sure if my phonology is too simple.

[Drydic]

I'll throw my oddball language out here.

Iberian (yes, those Iberians):

Code: Select all

Consonants
          Labial Dental Palatal Velar	Uvular	Pharyngeal
Plosive   p      t                    	q	
                 c
Fricative (f)*   s      š       x g             ħ ģ	
Nasal	  m      n
Rhotic	         d                      ř
Lateral          l
Approx    w             y

F is bracketed because it is only a dialectal version of /p/ (The dialect, Red Coast, is a major and widely-spoken dialect, so it can't just be ignored). C is [ts] (but [ʃt], and written as such, in Red Coast), d - [ɾ], y - [j], g - [ɣ], ģ - [ʕ], and ř - [ʀ]. W varies widely by dialect, being [^mb] in the modern ^mBericiler dialect (though when /w/ occurs in CwC environments it is pronounced [i]), [ʋ] in earlier versions of ^mBericiler and modern Red Coast (which descends from medieval ^mBericiler); /w/ varies widely in Ģendziler, between [ʋ], [w], and an outright vocalic . S is very infrequent as opposed to š, and merges with it in Red Coast.

Code: Select all

Vowels
  i   ı   u
   e      o
    a

ı is [i].

My signature is actually in this language. It translates as follows:

“For all that have fallen, a memory.
For all that will come, a dream.
For all that are, a haven.
Always and forever, will be Christrage.”

(Christrage is the capital of the Red Coast League, and is on the coast of our Venezuela. It began as a pirate haven city.)

The orthography is fairly conservative (with the exception of Red Coast substituting št for c), explaining (primarily) d for [ɾ]. It's written in a version of the Punic alphabet which writes out vowels (Punic itself tries to keep to the consonants-only standard, but finds it increasingly hard).

[finlay]

My signature is actually in this language.

Just noticed it... if you want the italics to show up properly, there's a box you have to tick allowing bbcode in your sig (ever since they changed the board software)

[roninbodhisattva]

An odd vowel inventory I want to use for a Numic-like language:

Short vowels:

Code: Select all

i    ɨ    u
     ɵ
     a

Long vowels:

Code: Select all

ii        uu
     
     aa

Diphthongs

Code: Select all

e̯a         o̯a
      a̯i

I may add /au̯/, too.

[pahaase.yenipon]

This is the phonology of Pahāse Yenipon, the language of the people of Yāmato. It contains consonant sounds mainly from Japanese, Thai and Standard Mandarin, while the vowel sounds are more European. Pahāse Yenipon is written with an abugida known as the Abyōdā, where the default unmarked syllable is a consonant followed by IPA "e", and due to orthographical reforms the spelling closely reflects the pronunciation of the standard formal register of the language. The standard syllable structure is:

Code: Select all

(C)(j)V(N)

where C is any consonant, j is the IPA "j", V is any vowel, and N is a nasal (usually IPA "n", but before the bilabial plosives "m" and the velar plosives "ŋ")

[TaylorS]

An idea inspired by thinking about Cahokia

Consonants /p t k kʷ ts tɬ s h m n w l/
Vowels: /i e o a ia/

Words may begin in a vowel, single consonants, or nasal + stop/affricate cluster. Medial clusters include such nasal clusters and /l/ + /m n h w/ and /h/ + stop/affricate. Words may end in /t k kʷ ts n/.

Kiowa–Tanoan?

[roninbodhisattva]

An idea inspired by thinking about Cahokia

Consonants /p t k kʷ ts tɬ s h m n w l/
Vowels: /i e o a ia/

Words may begin in a vowel, single consonants, or nasal + stop/affricate cluster. Medial clusters include such nasal clusters and /l/ + /m n h w/ and /h/ + stop/affricate. Words may end in /t k kʷ ts n/.

Kiowa–Tanoan?

I actually wasn't inspired by that at all.

[SlayerXX33398]

Phonology for RL1 (a romlang I've yet to name)
Plosives: /p/ /t/ /k/ /kʷ/ /b/ /d/ /g/ /gʷ/
Fricatives: /f/ /s/ /ʃ/ /x/ /xʷ/ /v/ /z/
Approximants: /j/
Nasals: /m/ /n/
Trills: /r/
Affricates: /tʃ/ /dʒ/
Lateral: /ʎ/

Vowels: /i/ /e/ /eː/ /a/ /o/ /oː/ /u/
Dipthongs: <ai> - /aj/ <au> - /aw/ <aé> - /ajeː/ <ei> - /ej/ <ou> - /oj/

[Risla]

The pseudo-Semitic language I've been doofing around with:

/p b t d dʒ k g q ʔ/
/tʼ kʼ/
/f v s z ʃ ħ/
/r/
/l/
/j w (ʕ)/

+gemination, except in glides.

/a e i o u/
/aː eː iː oː uː/
/aɪ aʊ/

(C)(G)V(C) syllable structure.

/ʕ/ is a marginal phoneme that can actually be considered an allophone of /a/.

[sirdanilot]

So you have geminated ejectives? Pretty sure that's impossible. Just nitpicking