Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #94: Face and Politeness)

[finlay]

re: locative and vocative, I normally hear them with /ɒ/, although I don't think /oʊ/ is wrong, but dative/lative always have /eɪ/.

re: Chinese names, I met a guy called Jian-hong, which is something to do with the cultural revolution, which was when he was born. I think the characters in his name mean construct-red or something. We were discussing the meaning of our names in an English class a few months ago – he kind of implied that he wasn't too happy with it or was embarrassed by it, but had made his peace with it.

I also just wanted to mention the ancient Roman naming system – for men, at least, they basically had a given name and two surnames – the surnames were a family name and a clan name. IIRC, the women only took the family name and had no given name (they were mononymic, and sisters would all have the same name). Sexist, weeeelll yeah. It's a bit of a mishmash what name they get referred to by in modern times – Julius Caesar was Gaius Iulius Caesar to the Romans, Virgil was Publius Vergilius Maro, and Cicero was Marcus Tullius Cicero, to name a few. They're all surnames by modern standards, I think, but Caesar is generally referred to with the two names, making it seem like his first name was Julius. In a way this is sort of right, since it would distinguish him from other people with the last name Caesar, but his given name was Gaius. And Virgil is a shortening of the family name while Cicero was the man's clan name.

The later emperors fuck this up to some extent, because they start taking extra names (I think all of them incorporated the name Julius Caesar at least), changing their names, and/or becoming referred to by a nickname. By Wikipedia, Nero was Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus and Caligula was Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus – apparently Caligula was a nickname.

It's also worth noting that the given names, such as Marcus, Gaius, Claudius, and so on, were taken from quite a limited list. It's sort of the opposite of the Chinese system, where there's only about 40 surnames or something. Here it's given names, although in both cases they come first.

[Jipí]

How'd you distinguish between your daughters then, when you call one and more than one is present? Prima, Secunda, Tertia (since Romans seem to've liked numbering their kids)?

[Ollock]

re: Chinese names, I met a guy called Jian-hong, which is something to do with the cultural revolution, which was when he was born. I think the characters in his name mean construct-red or something. We were discussing the meaning of our names in an English class a few months ago – he kind of implied that he wasn't too happy with it or was embarrassed by it, but had made his peace with it.

建红 jian4hong2 could be translated that way.

I also just wanted to mention the ancient Roman naming system – for men, at least, they basically had a given name and two surnames – the surnames were a family name and a clan name. IIRC, the women only took the family name and had no given name (they were mononymic, and sisters would all have the same name). Sexist, weeeelll yeah. It's a bit of a mishmash what name they get referred to by in modern times – Julius Caesar was Gaius Iulius Caesar to the Romans, Virgil was Publius Vergilius Maro, and Cicero was Marcus Tullius Cicero, to name a few. They're all surnames by modern standards, I think, but Caesar is generally referred to with the two names, making it seem like his first name was Julius. In a way this is sort of right, since it would distinguish him from other people with the last name Caesar, but his given name was Gaius. And Virgil is a shortening of the family name while Cicero was the man's clan name.

Women having no name is unsurprising. In China, up until the early 20th century many rural women had no names at all, maybe they would be called "first daughter", "second daughter", etc, but they had no formal name.

As far as the case of Julius Ceasar's name in common use, I have seen a similar thing with certain Spanish names, where both surnames are used. For example, Gabriel García Márquez is always referenced using both surnames, at least partly because García is very common, but I think it also may have to do with the fact that he was raised by his maternal grandfather, and therefore would identify himself more as a Márquez.

[*Ceresz]

re: locative and vocative, I normally hear them with /ɒ/, although I don't think /oʊ/ is wrong, but dative/lative always have /eɪ/.

Locative according to the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary:
BrE /ˈlɒkətɪv/
NAmE /ˈlɑːkətɪv/

The same goes for Vocative, only replacing /l/ with /v/.

Dative:
BrE & NAmE /ˈdeɪtɪv/

I couldn't find anything on lative, but I'm gonna trust you Finlay since you were right about everything else .

[Latinist13]

How'd you distinguish between your daughters then, when you call one and more than one is present? Prima, Secunda, Tertia (since Romans seem to've liked numbering their kids)?

Exactly, Prima, Secunda, Tertia...Decima.

So, if you have a single woman whose father's name is Gaius Lucius Calvus and she is the sixth daughter, her name would be
Lucia Sexta Gaii Lucii Calvi

If she is married, and her husband's name is Marcus Julius Brutus, then her name would be
Lucia Marci Julii Bruti uxor

[Nannalu]

I am waiting for #13 now

[Jipí]

I am waiting for #13 now

Fuck yessssssssssssssssssss!

[Nannalu]

I am waiting for #13 now

Fuck yessssssssssssssssssss!

I am excited for the explicitness.

[Ossicone]

OMG it's like so explicit!

[Ollock]

I am waiting for #13 now

Fuck yessssssssssssssssssss!

You will like it. I was re-listening just now seeing if I can shave off some time (with not much luck) and got an idea for a great euphemism.

"to pierce a shield (with one's spear)" = "to take a woman's virginity"

I'll get the actual conlang text of that when I get back to writing Pahran. You will know where that comes from when you get the podcast.

[Astraios]

That's not really a euphemism, because it's really graphic. xD

[Ollock]

That's not really a euphemism, because it's really graphic. xD

It's not the most polite of euphemisms.

[Přemysl]

"to pierce a shield (with one's spear)" = "to take a woman's virginity"

Didn't the Romans have a somewhat similar concept? I vaguely remember a line from Catullus about shields and such. My memory is a bit vague, being that I last read it 18 years ago.

[Ollock]

"to pierce a shield (with one's spear)" = "to take a woman's virginity"

Didn't the Romans have a somewhat similar concept? I vaguely remember a line from Catullus about shields and such. My memory is a bit vague, being that I last read it 18 years ago.

Vagina derives from a Latin word for "sheath", but that's all I know.

BTW, I just did a second edit run and cut out about ten minutes worth of audio that I still want to share, so expect a "bonus" episode about Wednesday.

[Jipí]

A vagina is a sheathe AFAIK. In German we use the same word for both the thing you put a sword into and the female genitals.

--
EDIT: Ollock ninja'd me.

[Nannalu]

A vagina is a sheathe AFAIK. In German we use the same word for both the thing you put a sword into and the female genitals.

I can hear nine year-olds giggling right now.

[MisterBernie]

Nine year olds? Rammstein built a whole chorus around that pun

[Nannalu]

Nine year olds? Rammstein built a whole chorus around that pun

Is that the song "Pussy"?

Or are just all Germans immature?

[Ollock]

Nine year olds? Rammstein built a whole chorus around that pun

Is that the song "Pussy"?

Or are just all Germans immature?

Oh, come on. Everyone does sexual humor once in a while. The measure of maturity is knowing when it's acceptable.

[Ollock]

It's out! Conlangery #13: Profanity, Insults, and Taboo Words

[Jipí]

What's the occasional knocking in the background?

[Ollock]

What's the occasional knocking in the background?

That would be QQ every time one of my contacts logs on. I will remember to turn that off in the future.

[Bob Johnson]

Finnish has saatana (from Satan obviously) -- my impression, solely from watching Star Wreck, is that it and perkele aren't that harsh. "Ai saatana," etc.

I want to work out this stuff for langs but conculturing is annoying.

Feedback: Don't rearrange furniture, or edit it out. Try to normalize the speakers' relative volume -- it's still uneven. And I don't suppose Skype has an option for less aggressively lossy compression?

[Latinist13]

It's out! Conlangery #13: Profanity, Insults, and Taboo Words

All I could think about after the first twenty minutes was Carmina XVI a C. Valerio Catullo

[Ollock]

Finnish has saatana (from Satan obviously) -- my impression, solely from watching Star Wreck, is that it and perkele aren't that harsh. "Ai saatana," etc.

I want to work out this stuff for langs but conculturing is annoying.

Feedback: Don't rearrange furniture, or edit it out. Try to normalize the speakers' relative volume -- it's still uneven. And I don't suppose Skype has an option for less aggressively lossy compression?

I have been trying to even out the volume since we started the show. So far all I have managed is horrible clipping for Will and Bianca while I'm still much quieter. I have no idea how to fix this problem with my current setup. Maybe if I get a mixer and a real mike and set up two computers I can figure it out, but I still have no money. Trying to fix that problem as well.