Istion - an Age of Sail Conworld.

[Pogostick Man]

Also, I've made a draft map of the various Qicui city-states and kingdoms and their capitals, but I don't know if it's too fragmented and/or evenly sized (i.e. many of the states have roughly the same amount of territory) to make plausible sense. Do you guys think I should cut down on the number of city-states and kingdoms and make them more uneven, or is it fine as it is? Currently there are 32 polities on the map:

Looks okay for the most part. Maybe consolidate two or three of the polities on the peninsula, but other than that I think it'd be fine as is.

Also, where are you guys getting the maps of that type from?

[Torco]

Yeah, Torco, what's your thoughts on this and how it relates to the reports? Furthermore, how should we do the reports and what should the first one discuss and when should we post it up? (ugh I feel like I'm asking my professor... )

All in due time, for now let's start fleshing out stuff, so as everyone can get a good idea of what's what by browsing the wiki.


@Ror: Sounds about right. I'm thinking of this.

The main group from which Torco's and my groups descended came up from the south and settled in [ancient]. A monarchy of some sorts was established over the two islands by the northerners (my dudes) [-1300]. Some migratory nomads came in from the north and made the northern areas of my big island their more-or-less home [-1100] and started getting acquainted with the locals. During this time, Ollock's culture had taken over the two islands which will later be disputed [-800]. The kingdom sent out some expeditions off to the west and colonized the nearby islands and eventually got to fighting with Ollock over control of the two disputed territories, which lasted for a long time [-780 to -600].

(stuff happens, more stuff happens)

A rebellion in the southern island was instigated [-130], and the Ciqui got involved. The island broke from the kingdom as war progressed in the north, reaching a high point with the assassination of the king and the entire royal family [-105]; in the wake of this, a number of regional councils sprung up with an overarching national council. Perhaps there could be more fighting if the Ciqui got greedy and decided that the islands needed the status of "proctectorate" [-95], complete with airquotes.

does the timeline sound about right?

Additionally, there's another issue I want to bring up, and one that also occurred on Etheria - how do we decide who gets what resources?

Well this isn't a game of Age of Empires, I don't know why resources would be a problem. This should arise naturally from the process of creation, like I'm thinking the viraayon learnt gunpowder from the qicui, which means that there probably wasn't any saltpeter in the island; this is coherent with the island being mostly forest, so saltpeter needs to be imported from elsewhere. Again, I don't see the competition here, so what does anyone have to gain from going "oh my island has gold and diamonds and uranium and the best fucking spice in the world." okay, sure, why not. that just means yet another creative question; do bandits plunder the mines? are the people richer than the rest of the world, and if so, what happens when those sources run out?
that's what I figure, anyway. from the posts while I'm writing this [yeah, I keep edit windows open for a while as I watch TV or stuff] the issue of resources does seem to be an issue to people: might I suggest we discuss why? no one wins here, what's the problem with having more or less resources?

[Pogostick Man]

@Ror: Sounds about right. I'm thinking of this.

The main group from which Torco's and my groups descended came up from the south and settled in [ancient]. A monarchy of some sorts was established over the two islands by the northerners (my dudes) [-1300]. Some migratory nomads came in from the north and made the northern areas of my big island their more-or-less home [-1100] and started getting acquainted with the locals. During this time, Ollock's culture had taken over the two islands which will later be disputed [-800]. The kingdom sent out some expeditions off to the west and colonized the nearby islands and eventually got to fighting with Ollock over control of the two disputed territories, which lasted for a long time [-780 to -600].

(stuff happens, more stuff happens)

A rebellion in the southern island was instigated [-130], and the Ciqui got involved. The island broke from the kingdom as war progressed in the north, reaching a high point with the assassination of the king and the entire royal family [-105]; in the wake of this, a number of regional councils sprung up with an overarching national council. Perhaps there could be more fighting if the Ciqui got greedy and decided that the islands needed the status of "proctectorate" [-95], complete with airquotes.

does the timeline sound about right?

Yes, for the most part. I'm thinking that the dates of the migrants' arrival and the establishment of the monarchy should be switched, though; had the settlers come in afterwards, they probably would've been all murdered out of pique and xenophobia.

Well this isn't a game of Age of Empires, I don't know why resources would be a problem. This should arise naturally from the process of creation, like I'm thinking the viraayon learnt gunpowder from the qicui, which means that there probably wasn't any saltpeter in the island; this is coherent with the island being mostly forest, so saltpeter needs to be imported from elsewhere. Again, I don't see the competition here, so what does anyone have to gain from going "oh my island has gold and diamonds and uranium and the best fucking spice in the world." okay, sure, why not. that just means yet another creative question; do bandits plunder the mines? are the people richer than the rest of the world, and if so, what happens when those sources run out?
that's what I figure, anyway. from the posts while I'm writing this [yeah, I keep edit windows open for a while as I watch TV or stuff] the issue of resources does seem to be an issue to people: might I suggest we discuss why? no one wins here, what's the problem with having more or less resources?

My take on it, if I'm understanding the problem here correctly, is this: After a certain point, having less resources leaves you SOL and unable to do anything, even defend or feed yourself. People wanting more resources is a bit of a natural reaction, but after a certain point it leads to Mary Suetopias, and if everybody has everything there's no imbalance for trade and/or the such to evolve, which kind of defeats the purpose. Deficiencies in certain areas are interesting and fuel all sorts of stuff.

Aside: How is "Qicui" pronounced?

[cybrxkhan]

On the resources, perhaps I didn't state it right - the issue for me is not whether who gets what, but rather if the what is "magically" found on everyone's island. i.e., what if everybody says they have silk or pepper or gold? That'd sort of ruin the trade since nobody would bother to trade those things as much, since everyone already has everything they need.

Also, Torco, can you show me the results for the referendums? I want to record them on a wiki page for future reference.

@Ror: Sounds about right. I'm thinking of this.

The main group from which Torco's and my groups descended came up from the south and settled in [ancient]. A monarchy of some sorts was established over the two islands by the northerners (my dudes) [-1300]. Some migratory nomads came in from the north and made the northern areas of my big island their more-or-less home [-1100] and started getting acquainted with the locals. During this time, Ollock's culture had taken over the two islands which will later be disputed [-800]. The kingdom sent out some expeditions off to the west and colonized the nearby islands and eventually got to fighting with Ollock over control of the two disputed territories, which lasted for a long time [-780 to -600].

(stuff happens, more stuff happens)

A rebellion in the southern island was instigated [-130], and the Ciqui got involved. The island broke from the kingdom as war progressed in the north, reaching a high point with the assassination of the king and the entire royal family [-105]; in the wake of this, a number of regional councils sprung up with an overarching national council. Perhaps there could be more fighting if the Ciqui got greedy and decided that the islands needed the status of "proctectorate" [-95], complete with airquotes.

does the timeline sound about right?

Yes, for the most part. I'm thinking that the dates of the migrants' arrival and the establishment of the monarchy should be switched, though; had the settlers come in afterwards, they probably would've been all murdered out of pique and xenophobia.

I think this might be the springing board for the first true non-local intervention by the Qicui. I have an idea for how this will resolve itself. My proposals for modifying adds religion as a minor - but important - factor to give some justification for initial Qicui intervention.

Let's say that the Qicui religion has been introduced to the southern islands around [-300] (give or take a century) by way of merchants. Eventually, by the time of the rebellion, there are enough followers of this religion that a number of the more religious Qicui leaders feel it is their duty to protect their spiritual brothers/sisters, even though the region is somewhat far away, comparatively. Up to the point when the southern islands are sufficiently independent, the only Qicui that have been intervening were those of religious leanings, or at least those who have commercial dealings with those of religious dealings. However, after the rebellion is sufficiently independent [-100], then the other Qicui states realize the lucrative-ness of intervening in the region because of [insert random good resources] and because of the fear that the Qicui states that have already intervened could get too powerful. Thereafter, the various Qicui states support different factions within the rebellion. Eventually, the Viraayon - or at least one of the more powerful factions within them - attempt to drive out the meddling Qicui, despite the objections of the other Viraayon who support them [-85], perhaps because they want to seize some of the power themselves and the trade with the resources away from the Qicui, who are increasingly becoming like colonizers as they send more and more immigrants to take control of the resources. Maybe Rorschach's group, realizing it's impossible to control the Viraayon, decide to ally themselves with an opposing faction in the rebellion, one that's pro-Rorschach (sort of like how after the American Revolution there were pro-British and pro-French camps). Eventually the Qicui city-states and kingdoms, the Viraayon, and Rorschach's group sign a treaty [-70 ish] agreeing to recognize Viraayon's independence, to respect and not attack followers of the Qicui's religion, and some other commercial stuff, and some other things that will inadvertently encourage the Viraayon to piracy.

This is just an idea on how the Qicui get involved. Thoughts?

Aside: How is "Qicui" pronounced?

From an earlier post:

Bacause of dang pinyin on the brain, I want to pronounce Qicui as [tçʰi.tsʰwej]. How do you, in fact, pronounce it?

I usually pronounce it in an Anglicized way as [kʰi.kwi] (so sort of like kiwis... except not really). It seems that the real pronounciation would be something like either [qi.cu̯i] or [qi.ɕu̯i].

So you can just call it [kʰi.kwi], even if it isn't "correct" because I do it too. *shrugs*

[Rodlox]

Additionally, there's another issue I want to bring up, and one that also occurred on Etheria - how do we decide who gets what resources? That is, we can't have everybody suddenly saying "yeah, my people have been harvesting all these lucrative spices for 1000 years" or "my people have iron to fight their weapons!" Some of the resources maybe it's fine to say everybody has it (like iron, maybe?), but others, especially the tradeable and profitable ones like spices, gold, coffee, salt, and silk, I think we have to somehow figure out a way to make sure everybody has something if they want it, but that nobody has all of the goodies. Since the intention of this project here is to have a rise of globalization thingy, it's one I think should be addressed in one of the next referendums. How do you propose we solve this issue?

maybe look at RL islands? such as, the nutmeg-rich islands of Indonesia - how much metal did the Dutch and the successor governments find on those islands? (aside from coconuts, good botanical trade items don't spread well without humans)

or islands in Oceania, where the big resource is the guano and little to nothing else.

The issue, in my opinion, is that some of the resources could easily be possible on a number of the islands, so I mean it probably wouldn't work if everybody said "I have pepper! = My conpeople are lucrative traders!"

true. some might be content to start off with trade networks no larger than those enjoyed by 16th Century Hawaii (exactly how many times did Spain sail right by there?)

others might be more like Medieval Yemen, or the South Indian thassalocracies.

Also, Rodlox, do you have any claims as of yet? I just noticed I don't have your claims on the world map, unless if you're sharing with someone? (???)

thus far, I don't have any claims. I've withdrawn from Etheria, but also have to finish some writing assignments I promised to do, before I can possibly join here further.

I've recieved authorization to help when tough issues like biology come up....and to improve my understanding of sprachbunds.

Ah. I see. Are we to assume that you will join in at a later time?

I hope to, yes...but I've learned not to get too far ahead of myself.

Also, I've made a draft map of the various Qicui city-states and kingdoms and their capitals, but I don't know if it's too fragmented and/or evenly sized (i.e. many of the states have roughly the same amount of territory) to make plausible sense. Do you guys think I should cut down on the number of city-states and kingdoms and make them more uneven, or is it fine as it is? Currently there are 32 polities on the map:

Qicui Major Cities 32 x2small.png

perhaps the "even amount"s were the result of negotiation between equals, or forced upon them by the more powerful territoried-states?

[Lyhoko Leaci]

@Ror: Sounds about right. I'm thinking of this.

The main group from which Torco's and my groups descended came up from the south and settled in [ancient]. A monarchy of some sorts was established over the two islands by the northerners (my dudes) [-1300]. Some migratory nomads came in from the north and made the northern areas of my big island their more-or-less home [-1100] and started getting acquainted with the locals. During this time, Ollock's culture had taken over the two islands which will later be disputed [-800]. The kingdom sent out some expeditions off to the west and colonized the nearby islands and eventually got to fighting with Ollock over control of the two disputed territories, which lasted for a long time [-780 to -600].

(stuff happens, more stuff happens)

A rebellion in the southern island was instigated [-130], and the Ciqui got involved. The island broke from the kingdom as war progressed in the north, reaching a high point with the assassination of the king and the entire royal family [-105]; in the wake of this, a number of regional councils sprung up with an overarching national council. Perhaps there could be more fighting if the Ciqui got greedy and decided that the islands needed the status of "proctectorate" [-95], complete with airquotes.

does the timeline sound about right?

Yes, for the most part. I'm thinking that the dates of the migrants' arrival and the establishment of the monarchy should be switched, though; had the settlers come in afterwards, they probably would've been all murdered out of pique and xenophobia.

I think this might be the springing board for the first true non-local intervention by the Qicui. I have an idea for how this will resolve itself. My proposals for modifying adds religion as a minor - but important - factor to give some justification for initial Qicui intervention.

Let's say that the Qicui religion has been introduced to the southern islands around [-300] (give or take a century) by way of merchants. Eventually, by the time of the rebellion, there are enough followers of this religion that a number of the more religious Qicui leaders feel it is their duty to protect their spiritual brothers/sisters, even though the region is somewhat far away, comparatively. Up to the point when the southern islands are sufficiently independent, the only Qicui that have been intervening were those of religious leanings, or at least those who have commercial dealings with those of religious dealings. However, after the rebellion is sufficiently independent [-100], then the other Qicui states realize the lucrative-ness of intervening in the region because of [insert random good resources] and because of the fear that the Qicui states that have already intervened could get too powerful. Thereafter, the various Qicui states support different factions within the rebellion. Eventually, the Viraayon - or at least one of the more powerful factions within them - attempt to drive out the meddling Qicui, despite the objections of the other Viraayon who support them [-85], perhaps because they want to seize some of the power themselves and the trade with the resources away from the Qicui, who are increasingly becoming like colonizers as they send more and more immigrants to take control of the resources. Maybe Rorschach's group, realizing it's impossible to control the Viraayon, decide to ally themselves with an opposing faction in the rebellion, one that's pro-Rorschach (sort of like how after the American Revolution there were pro-British and pro-French camps). Eventually the Qicui city-states and kingdoms, the Viraayon, and Rorschach's group sign a treaty [-70 ish] agreeing to recognize Viraayon's independence, to respect and not attack followers of the Qicui's religion, and some other commercial stuff, and some other things that will inadvertently encourage the Viraayon to piracy.

This is just an idea on how the Qicui get involved. Thoughts?

Would it be possible to have Baktarci get involved in the whole mess in any way, or would that not be all that likely? Or maybe have them be involved in the mess that's around Ollock's disputed islands?

[Pogostick Man]

I think this might be the springing board for the first true non-local intervention by the Qicui. I have an idea for how this will resolve itself. My proposals for modifying adds religion as a minor - but important - factor to give some justification for initial Qicui intervention.

Let's say that the Qicui religion has been introduced to the southern islands around [-300] (give or take a century) by way of merchants. Eventually, by the time of the rebellion, there are enough followers of this religion that a number of the more religious Qicui leaders feel it is their duty to protect their spiritual brothers/sisters, even though the region is somewhat far away, comparatively. Up to the point when the southern islands are sufficiently independent, the only Qicui that have been intervening were those of religious leanings, or at least those who have commercial dealings with those of religious dealings. However, after the rebellion is sufficiently independent [-100], then the other Qicui states realize the lucrative-ness of intervening in the region because of [insert random good resources] and because of the fear that the Qicui states that have already intervened could get too powerful. Thereafter, the various Qicui states support different factions within the rebellion. Eventually, the Viraayon - or at least one of the more powerful factions within them - attempt to drive out the meddling Qicui, despite the objections of the other Viraayon who support them [-85], perhaps because they want to seize some of the power themselves and the trade with the resources away from the Qicui, who are increasingly becoming like colonizers as they send more and more immigrants to take control of the resources. Maybe Rorschach's group, realizing it's impossible to control the Viraayon, decide to ally themselves with an opposing faction in the rebellion, one that's pro-Rorschach (sort of like how after the American Revolution there were pro-British and pro-French camps). Eventually the Qicui city-states and kingdoms, the Viraayon, and Rorschach's group sign a treaty [-70 ish] agreeing to recognize Viraayon's independence, to respect and not attack followers of the Qicui's religion, and some other commercial stuff, and some other things that will inadvertently encourage the Viraayon to piracy.

This is just an idea on how the Qicui get involved. Thoughts?

I like it, especially since I'm thinking of making the monarchy be the bad guys, so they'd be oppressing the Viraayon and my commoners. I'm kind of wondering about how and when the monarchy would be overthrown, though, and how that all would play into this, as I would like to see the kingdom abolished in the end.

Would it be possible to have Baktarci get involved in the whole mess in any way, or would that not be all that likely? Or maybe have them be involved in the mess that's around Ollock's disputed islands?

I actually think that that'd be cool if we can swing it—make this thing more of a global conflict, more or less.

Aside: How is "Qicui" pronounced?

From an earlier post:

Bacause of dang pinyin on the brain, I want to pronounce Qicui as [tçʰi.tsʰwej]. How do you, in fact, pronounce it?

I usually pronounce it in an Anglicized way as [kʰi.kwi] (so sort of like kiwis... except not really). It seems that the real pronounciation would be something like either [qi.cu̯i] or [qi.ɕu̯i].

So you can just call it [kʰi.kwi], even if it isn't "correct" because I do it too. *shrugs*

D'oh, it was already posted! Sorry about that.

[cybrxkhan]

I think this might be the springing board for the first true non-local intervention by the Qicui. I have an idea for how this will resolve itself. My proposals for modifying adds religion as a minor - but important - factor to give some justification for initial Qicui intervention.

Let's say that the Qicui religion has been introduced to the southern islands around [-300] (give or take a century) by way of merchants. Eventually, by the time of the rebellion, there are enough followers of this religion that a number of the more religious Qicui leaders feel it is their duty to protect their spiritual brothers/sisters, even though the region is somewhat far away, comparatively. Up to the point when the southern islands are sufficiently independent, the only Qicui that have been intervening were those of religious leanings, or at least those who have commercial dealings with those of religious dealings. However, after the rebellion is sufficiently independent [-100], then the other Qicui states realize the lucrative-ness of intervening in the region because of [insert random good resources] and because of the fear that the Qicui states that have already intervened could get too powerful. Thereafter, the various Qicui states support different factions within the rebellion. Eventually, the Viraayon - or at least one of the more powerful factions within them - attempt to drive out the meddling Qicui, despite the objections of the other Viraayon who support them [-85], perhaps because they want to seize some of the power themselves and the trade with the resources away from the Qicui, who are increasingly becoming like colonizers as they send more and more immigrants to take control of the resources. Maybe Rorschach's group, realizing it's impossible to control the Viraayon, decide to ally themselves with an opposing faction in the rebellion, one that's pro-Rorschach (sort of like how after the American Revolution there were pro-British and pro-French camps). Eventually the Qicui city-states and kingdoms, the Viraayon, and Rorschach's group sign a treaty [-70 ish] agreeing to recognize Viraayon's independence, to respect and not attack followers of the Qicui's religion, and some other commercial stuff, and some other things that will inadvertently encourage the Viraayon to piracy.

This is just an idea on how the Qicui get involved. Thoughts?

I like it, especially since I'm thinking of making the monarchy be the bad guys, so they'd be oppressing the Viraayon and my commoners. I'm kind of wondering about how and when the monarchy would be overthrown, though, and how that all would play into this, as I would like to see the kingdom abolished in the end.

Would it be possible to have Baktarci get involved in the whole mess in any way, or would that not be all that likely? Or maybe have them be involved in the mess that's around Ollock's disputed islands?

I actually think that that'd be cool if we can swing it—make this thing more of a global conflict, more or less.

Perhaps the Viraayon rebellion inspires some people under your monarchy to rebel (like in France for the French Revolution), particularly, say, a group with growing wealth and power but yet don't have that much political power (i.e. like the lower-upper and upper-middle classes of pre-revolution France or perhaps even America, you can say). Of course there still has to be a reason for the oppression, of course... we can't have Hitlers and Stalins running around for no reason, after all.

And I think Baktarci coming into the mess might make things even more fun. Perhaps Baktarci is concerned for some reason concerning their trade with the Qicui, since, well, the Qicui, I think, are likely to be their trade partners.


Anyhow, here's my new map. I went through several drafts, and finally got this one, which I am satisfied enough with. There are 30 city-states/kingdoms/republics total.

[Torco]

SOL ?
Also, does anyone here want to build a mary suetopia?

but okay, if proposals for resource maps, as it were, arise, we could vote on 'em.

As for referenda, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... TZWTWdaS3c
and https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... VhsRlBoZUE

Let's say that the Qicui religion has been introduced to the southern islands around [-300] (give or take a century) by way of merchants. Eventually, by the time of the rebellion, there are enough followers of this religion that a number of the more religious Qicui leaders feel it is their duty to protect their spiritual brothers/sisters, even though the region is somewhat far away, comparatively. Up to the point when the southern islands are sufficiently independent, the only Qicui that have been intervening were those of religious leanings, or at least those who have commercial dealings with those of religious dealings. However, after the rebellion is sufficiently independent [-100], then the other Qicui states realize the lucrative-ness of intervening in the region because of [insert random good resources] and because of the fear that the Qicui states that have already intervened could get too powerful. Thereafter, the various Qicui states support different factions within the rebellion. Eventually, the Viraayon - or at least one of the more powerful factions within them - attempt to drive out the meddling Qicui, despite the objections of the other Viraayon who support them [-85], perhaps because they want to seize some of the power themselves and the trade with the resources away from the Qicui, who are increasingly becoming like colonizers as they send more and more immigrants to take control of the resources. Maybe Rorschach's group, realizing it's impossible to control the Viraayon, decide to ally themselves with an opposing faction in the rebellion, one that's pro-Rorschach (sort of like how after the American Revolution there were pro-British and pro-French camps). Eventually the Qicui city-states and kingdoms, the Viraayon, and Rorschach's group sign a treaty [-70 ish] agreeing to recognize Viraayon's independence, to respect and not attack followers of the Qicui's religion, and some other commercial stuff, and some other things that will inadvertently encourage the Viraayon to piracy.

Nice! It also explains why the Viraayon Authority is such a secular, even religionblind state: they had to please everybody, leading to a 'believe whatever you want, just don't get in my way' kinda thing.

holy shit I have a lot of history to write.

[Torco]

As for Baktarci involvement, I don't see why it would be too unlikely; england was involved in the overthrowing of Indian monarchs, for instance, and france in the latin american independencies.

The kings of the north, Rorshach should name them, I think, would have been quite a big state, possibly spanning as far as the unclaimed islands to the north of both the Baktarci and the Quici lands. I'ts even likely that it had plans for visiting violence upon their lands. So maybe someone, an officer of the northern king's court with Manriyu affiliations or something, decided to tip some fellas in the Baktarci and the Quici military, you know, leak some documents or something, maybe the pan-northern kingdom even did invade the south, and so both the southern powers had reason to support an intestine rebellion.

[Ollock]

Would it be possible to have Baktarci get involved in the whole mess in any way, or would that not be all that likely? Or maybe have them be involved in the mess that's around Ollock's disputed islands?

That sounds cool. But if so many people are going to be trying to take my "rightful territory", I think it's best we figure out why people are piling on. Are there good rescources there? Are people vying for a strategic position to invade me. I am thinking to make my people a little behind the major powers -- possibly a tempting target for colonization -- though I haven't had a lot of time to work on it.

[Pogostick Man]

As for Baktarci involvement, I don't see why it would be too unlikely; england was involved in the overthrowing of Indian monarchs, for instance, and france in the latin american independencies.

The kings of the north, Rorshach should name them, I think, would have been quite a big state, possibly spanning as far as the unclaimed islands to the north of both the Baktarci and the Quici lands. I'ts even likely that it had plans for visiting violence upon their lands. So maybe someone, an officer of the northern king's court with Manriyu affiliations or something, decided to tip some fellas in the Baktarci and the Quici military, you know, leak some documents or something, maybe the pan-northern kingdom even did invade the south, and so both the southern powers had reason to support an intestine rebellion.

Sounds good to me. I'm thinking of calling the kingdom Ǧakærirr U (lit. "the thing that is ruled").

SOL ?

"[Expletive deleted] out of luck".

That sounds cool. But if so many people are going to be trying to take my "rightful territory", I think it's best we figure out why people are piling on. Are there good rescources there? Are people vying for a strategic position to invade me. I am thinking to make my people a little behind the major powers -- possibly a tempting target for colonization -- though I haven't had a lot of time to work on it.

I was thinking that perhaps Ǧakærirr U would use it as a place to dump dissidents and undesirables, especially if there were some natural resource there or something, at least at first.

[Turtlehead]

Forgot about me

[Rodlox]

Forgot about me

which Sprachbund are you part of? Northern or Southern?


which brings something else up, everyone: perhaps we should start listing the shared traits of our respective sprachbunds? (or is that PM-only thus far?)

[cybrxkhan]

@Turtle: Hmm...

which brings something else up, everyone: perhaps we should start listing the shared traits of our respective sprachbunds? (or is that PM-only thus far?)

Lyhoko and I compiled a list of our lttle sprachbucbcatbund a couple of pages back... Too lazy to retrieve it right now.

Anyhow, it's sleep time for me, but I'll respond to Torco and all the weird political-historical stuff later.

[Pogostick Man]

The kings of the north, Rorshach should name them, I think, would have been quite a big state, possibly spanning as far as the unclaimed islands to the north of both the Baktarci and the Quici lands. I'ts even likely that it had plans for visiting violence upon their lands. So maybe someone, an officer of the northern king's court with Manriyu affiliations or something, decided to tip some fellas in the Baktarci and the Quici military, you know, leak some documents or something, maybe the pan-northern kingdom even did invade the south, and so both the southern powers had reason to support an intestine rebellion.

Just realized: What happens to the liberated colonies south of the Viraayon Authority? Do they become territories of the Baktarci and Qicui? Do they form one (or multiple) independent colon(y/ies)? A mix of the two?

[Turtlehead]

Forgot about me

which Sprachbund are you part of? Northern or Southern?


which brings something else up, everyone: perhaps we should start listing the shared traits of our respective sprachbunds? (or is that PM-only thus far?)

I will go Southern.

[Rodlox]

Forgot about me

which Sprachbund are you part of? Northern or Southern?

which brings something else up, everyone: perhaps we should start listing the shared traits of our respective sprachbunds? (or is that PM-only thus far?)

I will go Southern.

an excellent choice.

Southern's western subgroup, or Southern's eastern subgroup?

[maıráí]

The eastern subgroup is behind ( ) so we'd be starting along with you.


You're actually not very far south...or to the east...

[Turtlehead]

Forgot about me

which Sprachbund are you part of? Northern or Southern?

which brings something else up, everyone: perhaps we should start listing the shared traits of our respective sprachbunds? (or is that PM-only thus far?)

I will go Southern.

an excellent choice.

Southern's western subgroup, or Southern's eastern subgroup?

Western

[cybrxkhan]

@Rodlox: Below I have what Lyhoko and I decided for our sprachbund, based on various similarities between our visions for our languages, as well as from our discussions; however, again, do we have one large southern sprachbund that is separated between two different (and distant?) subgroups? Or do we have two southern sprachbunds? The features are:

Features:

• Tons of plosives
• diphthongs
• lateral fricative(s)
• uvulars
• simple syllable structure - CV(C) vs. (C)V(C)
• VSO (possibly with some shift to SVO?)
• affixes
• verb conjugation
• locative prefixes
• singular-dual-plural?
• passive/active?
• Cardinal numbers follow the noun, as do adjectives, but ordinal numbers precede the noun, and otherwise have the same form as cardinal numbers.
• human/god-animate-inanimate genders

I think. Did I miss anything, or add anything that shouldn't be there? Maybe the number difference one could be described as generally, adjectives follow the noun, but precede the noun when indicating a specific one...

Definite articles, but no indefinite articles.

Hmm?

The kings of the north, Rorshach should name them, I think, would have been quite a big state, possibly spanning as far as the unclaimed islands to the north of both the Baktarci and the Quici lands. I'ts even likely that it had plans for visiting violence upon their lands. So maybe someone, an officer of the northern king's court with Manriyu affiliations or something, decided to tip some fellas in the Baktarci and the Quici military, you know, leak some documents or something, maybe the pan-northern kingdom even did invade the south, and so both the southern powers had reason to support an intestine rebellion.

Just realized: What happens to the liberated colonies south of the Viraayon Authority? Do they become territories of the Baktarci and Qicui? Do they form one (or multiple) independent colon(y/ies)? A mix of the two?

I think in the timeline I proposed above, some of the Qicui want the Viraayon as colonies, and some Viraayon would prefer the protection of those Qicui, some of which are admittedly more religious and/or greedy/commerce-focused, but generally tolerant and not as oppressive per se. However, the most powerful Viraayon faction(s) think otherwise, and fend off the Qicui (perhaps even through actual war), and teir independence is guaranteed, albeit with some treaty-signing here and there.

That's the timeline I had above in short, but if changes are needed once the Baktarci come in, that's cool too. Especially if the Baktarci are attempting to make their own pet colony.

[Lyhoko Leaci]

The kings of the north, Rorshach should name them, I think, would have been quite a big state, possibly spanning as far as the unclaimed islands to the north of both the Baktarci and the Quici lands. I'ts even likely that it had plans for visiting violence upon their lands. So maybe someone, an officer of the northern king's court with Manriyu affiliations or something, decided to tip some fellas in the Baktarci and the Quici military, you know, leak some documents or something, maybe the pan-northern kingdom even did invade the south, and so both the southern powers had reason to support an intestine rebellion.

Just realized: What happens to the liberated colonies south of the Viraayon Authority? Do they become territories of the Baktarci and Qicui? Do they form one (or multiple) independent colon(y/ies)? A mix of the two?

I think in the timeline I proposed above, some of the Qicui want the Viraayon as colonies, and some Viraayon would prefer the protection of those Qicui, some of which are admittedly more religious and/or greedy/commerce-focused, but generally tolerant and not as oppressive per se. However, the most powerful Viraayon faction(s) think otherwise, and fend off the Qicui (perhaps even through actual war), and teir independence is guaranteed, albeit with some treaty-signing here and there.

That's the timeline I had above in short, but if changes are needed once the Baktarci come in, that's cool too. Especially if the Baktarci are attempting to make their own pet colony.

Baktarci would probably want part of it as a colony at least at some point, but not all of it, as by this point the whole regions will probably be a mess of different powers going nuts all around. Maybe Kray Loyaan, which could explain why that regions is different? Or was there some other explanation for it? The saltpeter deposits would be a good motive for Baktarci wanting that region...

[cybrxkhan]

The kings of the north, Rorshach should name them, I think, would have been quite a big state, possibly spanning as far as the unclaimed islands to the north of both the Baktarci and the Quici lands. I'ts even likely that it had plans for visiting violence upon their lands. So maybe someone, an officer of the northern king's court with Manriyu affiliations or something, decided to tip some fellas in the Baktarci and the Quici military, you know, leak some documents or something, maybe the pan-northern kingdom even did invade the south, and so both the southern powers had reason to support an intestine rebellion.

Just realized: What happens to the liberated colonies south of the Viraayon Authority? Do they become territories of the Baktarci and Qicui? Do they form one (or multiple) independent colon(y/ies)? A mix of the two?

I think in the timeline I proposed above, some of the Qicui want the Viraayon as colonies, and some Viraayon would prefer the protection of those Qicui, some of which are admittedly more religious and/or greedy/commerce-focused, but generally tolerant and not as oppressive per se. However, the most powerful Viraayon faction(s) think otherwise, and fend off the Qicui (perhaps even through actual war), and teir independence is guaranteed, albeit with some treaty-signing here and there.

That's the timeline I had above in short, but if changes are needed once the Baktarci come in, that's cool too. Especially if the Baktarci are attempting to make their own pet colony.

Baktarci would probably want part of it as a colony at least at some point, but not all of it, as by this point the whole regions will probably be a mess of different powers going nuts all around. Maybe Kray Loyaan, which could explain why that regions is different? Or was there some other explanation for it? The saltpeter deposits would be a good motive for Baktarci wanting that region...

Did you say saltpeter? Okay, some Qicui are definitely going to be moving in. If they can't colonize, they'll machiavellianally manipulate. Or at least conduct illegal black market deals with them Viraayon. Actually, if Torco's willing, what could happen is that the Viraayon is, despite being one nation, fragmented into numerous factions that are allied with different foreign powers - i.e. one with Qicui, one with Baktarci, one with Rorschach's folks.

Also I'm thinking of cutting the number of Qicui states in half to about 15-ish so that I can better keep track of them. 30 or so is fun, but I can't keep track of them all.

[Torco]

Baktarci would probably want part of it as a colony at least at some point, but not all of it, as by this point the whole regions will probably be a mess of different powers going nuts all around. Maybe Kray Loyaan, which could explain why that regions is different? Or was there some other explanation for it? The saltpeter deposits would be a good motive for Baktarci wanting that region...

Those treacherous Loyaanites, now I know what's up, they're co-opted by Baktarci interests!
I like it.

@Cyb: Of course there's gonna be Qicui interlopers, some aristocrats that side with them, and all that jazz. The Viraayon, however, would monopolize the saltpeter deposits, if they can, but many Loyaanites would trade with foreign powers. This in turn might lead to extensive slave-taking and public torture as punishment, thus making the Authority pretty much the bad guy in local eyes.

A good measure of conflict there, it seems.

[Pogostick Man]

I think in the timeline I proposed above, some of the Qicui want the Viraayon as colonies, and some Viraayon would prefer the protection of those Qicui, some of which are admittedly more religious and/or greedy/commerce-focused, but generally tolerant and not as oppressive per se. However, the most powerful Viraayon faction(s) think otherwise, and fend off the Qicui (perhaps even through actual war), and teir independence is guaranteed, albeit with some treaty-signing here and there.

That's the timeline I had above in short, but if changes are needed once the Baktarci come in, that's cool too. Especially if the Baktarci are attempting to make their own pet colony.

Sorry, I was unclear. I was actually asking about these islands: