Kna:w language thread

[Culla]

Quick Intro:

So Kŋau is a conlang of mine that I have decided to revisit and completely revamp to the point it isn't really the same conlang anymore. It's an isolating head last language. It has almost no morphology outside of some derivation morphology and some bits and small amount inflectional morphology here and there.

abbreviations used

ACC - accusative case
CL - classifier
COMP - completive aspect
DEF - definite
F - feminine
GEN - genitive case
H - human
INDEF - indefinite
N - non-human
NC - noun classifier
SG - singular


1.0 Pronouns

Kŋau has two sets of pronouns, full pronouns and reduced pronouns. In few circumstances these pronouns can be used interchangeably but there are restrictions to where and when they can be used and these restrictions will be explained below.

ri pasu ki si knu-cat ma
DEF fish=ACC 1.M.SG CL-eat COMP
'I ate the fish'

ri pasu ki s knu-cat ma
DEF fish=ACC 1.M.SG CL-eat COMP
'I ate the fish'

1.1 Full Pronouns

Full pronouns are treated as the default form of the pronouns and are the only form that may take stress. The full pronouns are the only pronouns that can be used in formal situations with the exception of the possessor last possessive constructions. Full pronouns must also be used when a case clitic, postpositional clitic or when the possessor first possessive construction is being used.

Singular Pronouns

1.M - si
1.F - ʔam
2.M - wǝ
2.F - tan
3.M - ku
3.F - tyira
3.N - -t(ǝ)/ya:rat

Plural Pronouns

1 - mǝʔ
2 - sǝñ
3.H - pa:ŋ
3.N - -t(ǝ)/ya:rat

In order to form a full 3rd person non-human pronoun, a noun classifier must be affixed to the front of -t(ǝ). If the speaker doesn't know enough about the object to know what noun classifier to give it, then the pronoun ya:rat is used.

si kira-cxǝ́ŋ paʔ hǝm cra-sñaʔ ma
1.M.SG milk-goat=GEN yesterday CL-drink COMP
'I drank goat milk yesterday'

1.2 Reduced Pronouns

These pronouns are largely limited to informal conversation in places where the pronoun is not followed by a clitic or when it is used in the possessor last possessive construction. They are still used in possessor last constructions even when there is a clitic added onto the largest determiner phrase the pronoun is a part of. This usage in this type of possessive construction is the only allowable use of reduced pronouns in formal situations.

Singular Pronouns

1.M - s(ǝ)
1.F - (ǝ)m
2.M - u
2.F - ta
3.M - k(ǝ)
3.F - tyi
3.N - t(ǝ)

Plural Pronouns

1 - m(ǝ)
2 - si
3.H - pa
3.N - t(ǝ)

sǝ kira-cxǝ́ŋ paʔ tham cra-sñaʔ ma
1.M.SG milk-goat=GEN yesterday CL-drink COMP
'I drank goat milk yesterday'

2.0 Determiners

Determiners as a class include the definite article and the demonstratives. There isn't an explicit indefinite article, so any noun with out an explicit determiner is treated like its indefinite. Determiners unlike other words are head initial.

2.1 Definite Article

The definite article is ri.

ri hǝsu:
DEF man
'the man'

Definiteness and indefinite can be expressed with the suffixes -(ǝ)m, for indefinite nouns, and -(ǝ)s, for definite nouns. These suffixes can only be used in possessor last possessive constructions.

kuru-m ri hǝsu paʔ
dog-INDEF DEF man=GEN
'a dog of the man'

kuru-s ri hǝsu paʔ
dog-DEF DEF man=GEN
'the dog of the man'

2.2 Demonstratives

Demonstratives come in four degrees of distance from the speaker. These degrees are close to speaker, close to listener, far from both speaker and listener but still with in sight, and far from both the speaker and the listener and not with in sight.

this - swǝ
that (close to listener) - ki
that (far, with in sight) - maŋ
that (far, out of sight) - trañ

mǝkra
'stone'

swǝ mǝkra
'this stone'

ki mǝkra
'that stone by you'

maŋ mǝkra
'that stone over there (with in sight)'

trañ mǝkra
'that stone over there (out of sight)'

3.0 Number

Number in Kŋau is not a mandatory category for nouns. If number is marked on a noun, that noun has be a human and will take the shape of a full reduplication of the word.

prah
'boy'

prahǝ-prah
'boys'

For all other nouns, plural cannot be mark. If a number is used then a noun classifier or count word must be used.

3.1 Noun Classifiers

In order for a noun to take a number or an adjective, noun classifiers must be used. Each noun classifier corresponds to a specific noun class and there are 11 noun classes. The noun class 1 is used for humans; noun class 2 is used for animals and children; noun class 3 is used for large things like mountains, trees, hills, large animals and things like sand and dirt; noun class 4 is used for round things like fruits, balls, stars/sun, planets, orbs, etc.; noun class 5 is used for oblong or mishapen objects; noun class 6 is used for objects that are longer than they are wide (this includes man made objects); noun class 7 is used for plants and sends; noun class 8 is used for flat objects (including man made objects); noun class 9 is used for man made objects that aren't in noun class 6 or 8; noun class 10 is used for liquids, air, fire, spirit, clouds and etc.; noun class 11 is used for small things.

class 1 - ʔaŋ
class 2 - sau
class 3 - xi:s
class 4 - cu:
class 5 - kmuʔ
class 6 - ha
class 7 - swi
class 8 - krañ
class 9 - ŋǝm
class 10 - wǝx
class 11 - tum

These noun classifiers come after the number/adjective and before the noun.

srit xi:s miʔ
4 NC tree
'4 trees'

3.2 Count words

If a noun classifier isn't used then a count word must be used. Count words, unlike noun classifiers, express a certain quantity of a noun. So their counterpart in English would expressions like 'X cups of Y' or 'X bowls of Y'. These count words are placed in the same location as noun classifiers

kraʔ kándutu kira
3 cup<AN> milk
'three cups of milk'

Another way count words are unlike noun classifiers is that they have more obvious origins in current nouns. Most nouns that can be made into a count word make use of the infix -áN-. This infix follows the first consonant.

ktutu
'cups'

kándutu
'X cups of Y'

rac
'basket'

ránac
'X baskets of Y'

kyuru
'stuff'

káñjuru
generic count word

Some counts word are formed with the infix -ti- which follows the first vowel.

hasax
'large pile'

hatisax
'X large piles of Y'

piri
'stack'

pitiri
'X stacks of Y'

Since I'm tired, sections 4-6 will come tomorrow.

[roninbodhisattva]

I'm a big fan of this. Got a couple questions:

Do the reduced pronouns behave like clitics themselves, if not grammatically than phonologically, at all? Since you've got one that might lack a vowel, might suggest they can.

Also, in the couple of sentences that you have the verb seems to be compounded with a classifier that's different than the ones you've got in your classifiers list...how does that work? Is it referencing the object?

Also, it'd be neat to see the phonology, it looks cool. Very close to something I've been playing around with.

[Culla]

I'm a big fan of this. Got a couple questions:

Do the reduced pronouns behave like clitics themselves, if not grammatically than phonologically, at all? Since you've got one that might lack a vowel, might suggest they can.

Yep they behave as clitics, sorry for not mentioning this. Besides the epenthetic vowels, they also trigger the same phonological changes that other clitics and affixes trigger.

Also, in the couple of sentences that you have the verb seems to be compounded with a classifier that's different than the ones you've got in your classifiers list...how does that work? Is it referencing the object?

I'm very glad you noticed this. I will talk about them in more detail in a thread about verbs but I will touch on them a bit here and their origins. They refer to the object of the verb and are descended from an older system of noun incorporation. The incorporated nouns eventually reduce (usually first vowel is lost but that's not always the case) and they got generalized into situations where an independent object is used. I will illustrate with an example that contains words you already know from the OP. Also note that in this example in Pre-Kŋau the verb would move up into I and it was head first with the I as well.

si sñaʔ kira
'I drink milk'

si kira-sñaʔ (with noun incorporation)
'I drink milk'

si kira paʔ cra-sñaʔ (modern syntax and the incorporated noun has been reduced and generalized)
'I drink milk'
Because of their origins these classifiers are much more numerous and different from the regular noun classifiers. The classifier cra- is used for cloudy or opaque liquids and the classifier knu- is used for meat

Also, it'd be neat to see the phonology, it looks cool. Very close to something I've been playing around with.

I haven't put too much thought in the phonology as the syntax and the (limited) morphology is my main focus, but I can make quick post before I go to bed for you.

[Culla]

In response to roninbodhisattva's request here is a brief sketch of Kŋau's phonology.

Consonants

Nasals: /m n ɲ ŋ/
Plosives: /p t c k ʔ/
Fricatives: /s x h/
Trills: /r/
Semi-vowels: /w j/

/c/ can be realized as [c] or [ʨ]

Vowels

Monophthongs:
High: /i u/
mid: /ǝ/
low: /a/

diphthongs:
/au ai ǝu ǝi/

Both monophthongs and diphthongs have phonemic length.

Stress

Stress falls on the last syllable unless the last syllable is a clitic. Also some affixes may cause the stress to move.

Syllable structure

Legal onsets:

any consonant
/p/ + /t/, /c/, /k/
/k/ + /p/, /t/
/ʔ/ + any plosive
any plosive + /ʔ/
any plosive + any fricative
any fricative + any nasal
any plosive + any nasal
any plosive/fricative + /w/, /r/, /j/

Legal nuclei

any vowel

Legal codas:

any nasal
any plosive
any fricative
null
/r/ (but only if it precedes a syllable with another /r/ as the onset)

Intervocalic clusters are limited to 2 consonants.
Allophony and Phonological processes

/ǝ/ -> [o] / C[+bilabial]_
/ǝ/ -> [e] / C[+palatal]_
/ǝ/ -> [ɤ] / C[+velar]_
/ǝ/ -> [ǝ] / elsewhere

/ji/ -> [je]
/wu/ -> [wo]

In derived environments the following happens:
/ʔ/ + C -> CC
except: /ʔ/ + /w/ -> [kw] and /ʔ/ + /j/ -> [cj]

N + C (where C = a plosive or a fricative) -> NC[+voice] (N = a homo-organic nasal)
except: N + /ʔ/ -> [n] and N + /h/ -> [nɦ]
N1 + N2 -> N2N2
N + /r/ -> [nd]
N + /w/ -> [ŋg]
N + /j/ -> [ɲɟ]

CVCV + CV(C) -> CVCCV(C) (This doesn't take place when a clitic is added to a word)

Ø -> [ǝ] / C_C, CC_ if a illegal cluster is formed (note that the second preferred unless the rule about only intervocalic clusters having only two consonants is violated)


Alright that's about all I have right now.

[roninbodhisattva]

si kira paʔ cra-sñaʔ (modern syntax and the incorporated noun has been reduced and generalized)
'I drink milk'
Because of their origins these classifiers are much more numerous and different from the regular noun classifiers. The classifier cra- is used for cloudy or opaque liquids and the classifier knu- is used for meat

Very cool, I had actually suspected something of this sort when I saw them. Are there verbs that require one of these classifiers? These would most likely be verbs of manipulating, handling, etc. is what I'm thinking.

Also thanks for the phonology! I do like having some context for the phonetics of the forms.

[Culla]

Very cool, I had actually suspected something of this sort when I saw them. Are there verbs that require one of these classifiers? These would most likely be verbs of manipulating, handling, etc. is what I'm thinking.

Once again you pretty much hit the nail on the head as verbs that express thoughts, feelings, etc. cannot take the classifiers.

[roninbodhisattva]

Very cool, I had actually suspected something of this sort when I saw them. Are there verbs that require one of these classifiers? These would most likely be verbs of manipulating, handling, etc. is what I'm thinking.

Once again you pretty much hit the nail on the head as verbs that express thoughts, feelings, etc. cannot take the classifiers.

Does this include verbs of outside perception? Like if you said "I saw the milk" would you use the classifier?

And actually, I had another question, on the section below.

Definiteness and indefinite can be expressed with the suffixes -(ǝ)m, for indefinite nouns, and -(ǝ)s, for definite nouns. These suffixes can only be used in possessor last possessive constructions.

kuru-m hǝsu paʔ
dog-INDEF man=GEN
'a dog of the man'

kuru-s hǝsu paʔ
dog-DEF man=GEN
'a dog of the man'

I don't get quite what you're getting at here. So is that suffix marking the definiteness of the possessor or the possessed noun? It's probably cuz of the glosses, which are exactly the same, that I'm not getting it.

[Culla]

Very cool, I had actually suspected something of this sort when I saw them. Are there verbs that require one of these classifiers? These would most likely be verbs of manipulating, handling, etc. is what I'm thinking.

Once again you pretty much hit the nail on the head as verbs that express thoughts, feelings, etc. cannot take the classifiers.

Does this include verbs of outside perception? Like if you said "I saw the milk" would you use the classifier?

And actually, I had another question, on the section below.

Definiteness and indefinite can be expressed with the suffixes -(ǝ)m, for indefinite nouns, and -(ǝ)s, for definite nouns. These suffixes can only be used in possessor last possessive constructions.

kuru-m hǝsu paʔ
dog-INDEF man=GEN
'a dog of the man'

kuru-s hǝsu paʔ
dog-DEF man=GEN
'a dog of the man'

I don't get quite what you're getting at here. So is that suffix marking the definiteness of the possessor or the possessed noun? It's probably cuz of the glosses, which are exactly the same, that I'm not getting it.

Damn it, sorry that's a typo.

[roninbodhisattva]

Damn it, sorry that's a typo.

So should it be "a dog of a man" (-m) vs. "a dog of the man" (-s) or "a dog of the man" (-m) vs. "the dog of the man" (-s)?

Oops, now I see the edit. Understood! What's the story about those only occurring in this possessive construction?

Also, I may borrow your idea of this kind of small vowel inventory with this kind of consonant system idea for something I'm working on, since it solves some aesthetic issues I've been having (not liking /e ɛ o ɔ/ all that much). Though I may add /ɨ/.

[Sortsdam]

I really like this. Is your language intended to be Asian? It actually reminds me of my conlang somewhat, because of the fairly isolating morphology and short words, as well as the initial clusters I got that idea from Khmer; are you emulating something similar? I also have a quite a few words that end in glottal stop, as you also do. All in all, it's real cool.

[Culla]

Damn it, sorry that's a typo.

So should it be "a dog of a man" (-m) vs. "a dog of the man" (-s) or "a dog of the man" (-m) vs. "the dog of the man" (-s)?

Oops, now I see the edit. Understood! What's the story about those only occurring in this possessive construction?

It is from an older system of noun morphology where definiteness was a category to be marked on the noun. This was eventually lost in most places with one of the demonstratives becoming the new definite article. These affixes were maintain though in situations where the N moves up into the D, which only takes place in the possessor last possessive construction.

Also, I may borrow your idea of this kind of small vowel inventory with this kind of consonant system idea for something I'm working on, since it solves some aesthetic issues I've been having (not liking /e ɛ o ɔ/ all that much). Though I may add /ɨ/.

Go a head. I actually got the idea for this system from a mix of Khmer and some Papuan languages (you can really see this with the /ǝ/ allophony).

I really like this. Is your language intended to be Asian? It actually reminds me of my conlang somewhat, because of the fairly isolating morphology and short words, as well as the initial clusters I got that idea from Khmer; are you emulating something similar? I also have a quite a few words that end in glottal stop, as you also do. All in all, it's real cool.

It isn't intended to be Asian, since it is spoken in my conworld, but it is most definitely Asian influenced. I too got my influence for some of the look from Khmer as well. In fact my first attempt was suppose to be like Khmer and a language from the Philippines mashed together. Now its like a mix of Japanese, some African languages (you all will see more of this later), Khmer, and just stuff I thought would be cool. Also I thought it would be cool to have an isolating language that wasn't SVO for a change and also one that would have a lot of movement so that the word order doesn't look as rigid.

[Culla]

Alright here is the next installment of Kŋau Noun Theater. I forgot to mention on the phonology post that /r/ can be realized as either [r] or [l] but [l] is considered to be a feminine pronunciation and somewhat cutesy. Oh I also forgot to mention that I'm not writing in the phonological changes that take place involving clitics but just so you all know things like kira-cxǝŋ paʔ and khuŋ paʔ are pronounced as [ki.ra.ʨxɤ́m.baʔ] and [khúm.baʔ] even if I don't write them like kira-cxǝm baʔ or khum baʔ

4.0 Case

There are four functional cases in Kŋau and these are the nominative, accusative, dative and genitive. All of these cases are marked with enclitic particles and because of this they are difficult to distinguish from postpositions (in fact this distinction might not even be all that useful).

4.1 Nominative

This case marks the subject of an intransitive verb and the agent of a transitive verb. Normally this case is left unmarked, but when extra emphasis is needed, the particle ʔa is used.

ri hǝsu: (ʔa) kira-cxǝŋ paʔ cra-sñaʔ
DEF man (NOM) milk-goat GEN CL-drink
'The man drinks goat milk'

si (ʔa) txu
1.M.SG NOM run
'I run'

4.2 Accusative

The accusative case marks the patient of transitive verb and the theme of an ditransitive verb. It is specifically used when the patient is a count noun or its quantity is known. Like the nominative, the accusative is only used when extra emphasis is required and when it is used the accusative noun is fronted. The particle ki is used.

ku pasu knu-turu
3.M.SG fish CL-catch
'he is catching one fish'

pasu ki ku knu-turu
fish ACC 3.M.SG CL-catch
'he is catching ONE FISH'

note: an indefinite singular noun in the accusative is consider to have an unspoken quantifier that is equivalent to 'one'.

4.3 Dative

The dative cause marks the receiver of a ditransitive verb, a benefactor, the experiencer of a class verbs involving observation and feelings, and a purpose. This cased is marked with the particle ŋǝ.

tyira ri hǝsu: ŋǝ khuŋ paʔ ma-pkiʔa ma
3.F.SG DEF man DAT bread GEN CL-give COMP
'She gave the man some bread'

si ŋǝ kuru waŋ ma (this should answer roninbodisattva's question about the use of the CL's on verbs)x
1.M.SG DAT dog see COMP
'I saw a dog'

ku cat ŋǝ mǝʔ paʔ ri nassu:x ti tham tsa ma
3.M.SG eat DAT 1.PL GEN DEF house to yesterday go [size=85COMP][/size]
'He went to our house yesterday to eat.'

4.4 Genitive and Possession

I wasn't really sure where to put possession, so I thought what better place to put it than in the discussion about the genitive.

4.4.1 Genitive case

The genitive case is used to the possessor in the possessive constructions and to mark the patient of a verb when the noun is a mass noun or is of an undetermined quantity.

ri həsu paʔ mata
DEF man GEN son
'a son of the man'

tan pasu paʔ knu-cat ma
2.F.SG fish GEN CL-eat COMP
'You ate some fish'

4.4.2 Possession

There are two types of possessive constructions, the possessor first construction and the possessor last construction. In order to form the possessor first construction, the possessor moves from spec,NP to spec,DP. This form is considered the default and is used in the complex postposition constructions.

ri həsu paʔ ri kuru
'The man's dog'

In the possessor last construction the possessed N moves up into the D by way of head movement. Because of this the definite article and the demonstratives cannot be used. So if definiteness is to be expressed, it must be expressed on the noun by using the definite or indefinite suffixes. Also if the possessor is a pronoun, then its reduced form is used.

kuru(-s) (ǝ)m na:ssux u ti txu ma
dag(-DEF) 1.F.SG house 2.M.SG to ran COMP
'My dog ran to your house.'

Man made objects and relative words must allows have a possessor. In situations when said possessor would be unknown then the 3rd person masculine singular pronoun and the possessor last construction are used. In this situation the masculine singular pronoun is used in a way where it is neutral in regard to both gender and number.

kǝ:ma k
arrow 3.M.SG
'an/the arrow'

5.0 Postpositions

Postpositions in Kŋau are divided into two types, simple postpositions and complex postpositions.

5.1 Simple Postpositions

The simple postpositions look and behave just like the case but because they are mainly used to express location and motion, they are kept separate. These positions are ca (locative), ti (motion to), kʔai (motion from), pax (comiative), and ŋih (instrumental).

The postposition ca is used to express location and it is used to express temporal concepts that are in the recent past or recent future (with the exception of 'yesterday').

si ri ptam ca ri kira paʔ cra-sñaʔ ma
1.M.SG DEF table LOC DEF milk GEN CL-drink COMP
'I drank the milk on the table.'

si həm ca txu
1.M.SG tomorrow LOC run
'I will run tomorrow'

The postposition ti is used to express motion to a location, a time that an action will take place in the distant future, duration of a current or future action, and to the receiver of a ditransitive verb if the receiver isn't a human.

ri prah na:ssux kǝ ti tsa ma
DEF boy home 3.M.SG to go COMP
'the boy went to his house'

wǝ ma: wǝx harra: ti ka:up
2.M.SG NC week to leave
'You will be leaving in two weeks.'

si ma: wǝx pyam ti cat
1M.SG NC hour to eat
'I will be/am eating for 2 hours'

The postposition kʔai is used to express motion from a location, a time that action had taken place in distant past, and the duration of a past action.

həsu hmaŋ kə kʔai ka:up ma
man store 3.M.SG from leave COMP
'a man left the store'

wǝ ma: wǝx harra: kʔai ka:up ma
2.M.SG NC week from leave COMP
'You left two weeks ago'

si ma: wǝx pyam kʔai cat ma
1M.SG NC hour from eat COMP
'I was eating for 2 hours'

The postposition pax is used express companionship.

si si paʔ kuru pax txu
1.M.SG 1.M.SG GEN dog COM run
'I am running with my dog.'

The postposition ŋih is used to mark an instrument.

si si paʔ kǝ:ma ŋih psǝut knu-xnam ma
1.M.SG 1.M.SG GEN arrow INSTR deer CL-shoot COMP
'I shot a deer with an arrow'

5.2 Complex Postpositions

In order to express more complex spacial concepts, complex postpositions (or relational nouns) must be used. These complex postpositions consist of two nouns in a possessor first possessive construction followed by a simple postposition.

ri na:ssux paʔ ri kayǝ ca
DEF house GEN DEF stomach LOC
'inside of the house'

The main nouns used in complex postpositions are:

kxǝn - 'above' - lit. 'sky'
yama - 'top of' - lit. 'head'
kayǝ - 'inside' - lit. 'stomach'
twǝŋ - 'side, upper corner, before' - lit. 'face'
mun - 'side, lower corner' - lit. 'foot'
srun - 'under' - lit. 'ground'
hǝk - 'behind, after' - lit. 'back'
psut - 'near, around' - lit. 'air'

I will post the bit on derivational morphology for nouns later, also I will add in more examples for 5.2.

[Sortsdam]

So to express a clause as you mentioned "inside" of the house, Kŋau speakers literally say "in the stomach of the house"? Very symbolic, I like.

[roninbodhisattva]

There are two types of possessive constructions, the possessor first construction and the possessor last construction. In order to form the possessor first construction, the possessor moves from spec,NP to spec,DP. ....In the possessor last construction the possessed N moves up into the D by way of head movement. Because of this the definite article and the demonstratives cannot be used. So if definiteness is to be expressed, it must be expressed on the noun by using the definite or indefinite suffixes. Also if the possessor is a pronoun, then its reduced form is used.

So, if I'm getting this right the possessor first construction should have the form in (1) while the possessor second should have the form in (2), right?



That's cool, but I'm not really getting why there are two constructions, what's the difference, functionally?

Also, have you thought about where the case clitics sit in the syntax? Are they just phonologically deficient heads? If so do they take DP or what?

[Culla]

There are two types of possessive constructions, the possessor first construction and the possessor last construction. In order to form the possessor first construction, the possessor moves from spec,NP to spec,DP. ....In the possessor last construction the possessed N moves up into the D by way of head movement. Because of this the definite article and the demonstratives cannot be used. So if definiteness is to be expressed, it must be expressed on the noun by using the definite or indefinite suffixes. Also if the possessor is a pronoun, then its reduced form is used.

So, if I'm getting this right the possessor first construction should have the form in (1) while the possessor second should have the form in (2), right?



That's cool, but I'm not really getting why there are two constructions, what's the difference, functionally?

Also, have you thought about where the case clitics sit in the syntax? Are they just phonologically deficient heads? If so do they take DP or what?

I will post a longer response once I get back to school (I have a 14hr train ride), but thank you for the question. If I remember correctly I have an explanation in my notes. Also I will have to think about the case clitics, I'm not really where to put them yet.

As a side note, how did you make the trees? I've been wanting to make them for a while but I was sure what program you use.

[roninbodhisattva]

Also I will have to think about the case clitics, I'm not really where to put them yet.

One option would be to have them be a higher projection than DP, with some kind of case projection. It really depends on how they work.

[/quote]As a side note, how did you make the trees? I've been wanting to make them for a while but I was sure what program you use.[/quote]I typeset them up in LaTeX using qtree and did the movement arrows with tree-dvips. I would really recommend using latex for stuff in general, it's really great. Little bit of a learning curve but it's worth it imo.

[Culla]

As a side note, how did you make the trees? I've been wanting to make them for a while but I was sure what program you use.

I typeset them up in LaTeX using qtree and did the movement arrows with tree-dvips. I would really recommend using latex for stuff in general, it's really great. Little bit of a learning curve but it's worth it imo.[/quote]

Yeah I use LaTeX almost exclusively now but I've only needed it for semantics papers so far so I have had to make syntax trees yet (my syntax class hasn't assigned a paper yet).

[roninbodhisattva]

Yeah I use LaTeX almost exclusively now but I've only needed it for semantics papers so far so I have had to make syntax trees yet (my syntax class hasn't assigned a paper yet).

Qtree a good option for typesetting trees. The syntax is pretty easy to learn, and it's basically just doing a bracketing with some other little commands for fancy stuff thrown in.

[Nortaneous]

I'm far too tired right now to have anything remotely intelligent to say, but this is great, and actually looks like a natlang instead of the normal bland conlang aesthetic.

[Culla]

I just wanted to say I'm back and I have a couple changes I'm in the process of making, but I will give you a preview. I am changing how the clitics work and I'm adding some ergativity. I will go through my notes and I will post the updated sections. Also I am turning this into a general Kŋau thread, so if there is anything you would like to see before anything else please let me know.

[roninbodhisattva]

Glad to see this returning!

[Culla]

Glad to see this returning!

Yeah I took a short break from it to do my final papers for my semantics and morphology courses and fiddled around with some other side projects which gave me some nice ideas and I think I have some good stuff to come back with. I should have something up tomorrow, right now I'm trying to organize my thoughts and notes.

[Culla]

Alright so I'm going to just post the sections that had changes made to them. If a section just have examples that are changed then I won't post them but I can give you the update examples upon request.


abbreviations used


CL - classifier
COMP - completive aspect
DEF - definite
F - feminine
GEN - genitive/ergative case
H - human
INDEF - indefinite
N - non-human
NC - noun classifier
SG - singular
TOP - topic marker

1.0 Pronouns

Kŋau has two sets of pronouns, full pronouns and pro-clitic pronouns. The use of these forms are controlled by where they are positioned in a sentence and topicality.

ri pasu sǝ knu-cat ma
DEF fish 1.M.SG CL-eat COMP
'I ate the fish'

si ki ri pasu knu-cat ma
1.M.SG=TOP DEF fishCL-eat COMP
'I ate the fish'

1.1 Full Pronouns

Full pronouns are treated as the default form of the pronouns and are the only form that may take stress. Full pronouns must also be used when a case clitic, postpositional clitic or when the possessive construction is used.

Singular Pronouns

1.M - si
1.F - ʔam
2.M - wǝ
2.F - tan
3.M - ku
3.F - tyira
3.N - -t(ǝ)/ya:rat

Plural Pronouns

1 - mǝʔ
2 - sǝñ
3.H - pa:ŋ
3.N - -t(ǝ)/ya:rat

In order to form a full 3rd person non-human pronoun, a noun classifier must be affixed to the front of -t(ǝ). If the speaker doesn't know enough about the object to know what noun classifier to give it, then the pronoun ya:rat is used.

hǝm kira-cxǝ́ŋ kʔai sǝ cra-sñaʔ ma
yesterday milk-goat from 1.M.SG CL-drink COMP
'I drank goat milk yesterday'

1.2 Reduced Pronouns

These pronouns are largely limited in used to the agreement system. So because of this they will be discussed more fully in that section.

Singular Pronouns

1.M - s(ǝ)
1.F - m(ǝ)
2.M - u
2.F - ta
3.M - k(ǝ)
3.F - tyi
3.N - t(ǝ)

Plural Pronouns

1 - m(ǝ)
2 - si
3.H - pa
3.N - t(ǝ)


For section 2.0 I got rid of the the indefinite and definite suffixes

[Culla]

I will post the other update later, something just came up after I posted that that is requiring my attention.

[Culla]

So after almost a year of letting this sit I have decided to make some changes. They are mainly cosmetic (meaning phonology), but I also decided to make Knaw (as it is now called) a proto-language to go with a culture in my long neglected conworld.

So some of the changes that will be featured in following posts is:

- strong clamp down on multisyllabic roots (meaning if all goes well there will be none)
- /tɕ/ is now /ts/
- there is now a voiced serious in both plosives, fricatives, and africates!!!
- limited vowel harmony (front and back/central /i/ vs. /ɯ/ and /e/ vs. /ɤ/)*
- longer clusters are possible in derived environments
- no more /x/
- classifier prefixes don't exist yet, but will be developed in a planned daughter
- more morphology, but restricted mostly to derivation and some grey areas between derivation and inflection
- most likely no definite article this time, but if i feel attached to it then I'll keep it.

* yes this leaves me with more back vowels than front, but before you start screaming at me, the back unrounded vowels are in free variation with their central counterparts and the over all system isn't going to be particularly stable with the development of the daughters.

Once I get the a brief overview of the phonology worked out i will post it and then I will go through and repost what I had so far in this thread with the changes. Then you all with get new stuff.