Post your conlang's phonology

[Chagen]

Wierd, I thought that it was more central than /e/.

Anyway, I've made another change to the vowel inventory--making /i/ /ɪ/ instead. /u/ fronting to /ʉ/ caused /i/ to lower to /ɪ/, and then /e/ lowered to /ɛ/, and then /a/ backed to /ɑ/ in response (to distinguish it better from /ɛ/).

[Herr Dunkel]

Wierd, I thought that it was more central than /e/.

Anyway, I've made another change to the vowel inventory--making /i/ /ɪ/ instead. /u/ fronting to /ʉ/ caused /i/ to lower to /ɪ/, and then /e/ lowered to /ɛ/, and then /a/ backed to /ɑ/ in response (to distinguish it better from /ɛ/).

Chagen

That'sss a lovely vowel inventory you have there, it would be a sshhame if soundchange happened to it :3

[Miiil]

Old Searan Phonology

Plosives
/p t ʈ k q/ <p t d k q>

Ejectives
/t' k'/ <th g>

Fricatives
/f s/ <f s>

Nasals
/m n ŋ ɴ/ <m n ng nq>

Approximants
/w j ɰ l/ <w y r l>

/i ɪ ɛ ə æ ɐ ɔ ɒ ʏ u/ are represented as
<ii i e í æ a ô o ü u>.

The syllable structure is strictly (C)V, i.e., all consonants must have vowels on either side, but vowels can follow each other. When this is the case, the vowels are separated by a hyphen (-).
Note that this orthography is actually a widely used transliteration for a separate script.
The stress is always on the first syllable, with secondary stress on the third, and so forth, alternating (though words this long are uncommon). In the standard accent, the unstressed vowels remain clear.


How awful is it?

[äreo]

Old Searan Phonology

Plosives
/p t ʈ k q/ <p t d k q>

Ejectives
/t' k'/ <th g>

Fricatives
/f s/ <f s>

Nasals
/m n ŋ ɴ/ <m n ng nq>

Approximants
/w j ɰ l/ <w y r l>

/i ɪ ɛ ə æ ɐ ɔ ɒ ʏ u/ are represented as
<ii i e í æ a ô o ü u>.

The syllable structure is strictly (C)V, i.e., all consonants must have vowels on either side, but vowels can follow each other. When this is the case, the vowels are separated by a hyphen (-).
Note that this orthography is actually a widely used transliteration for a separate script.
The stress is always on the first syllable, with secondary stress on the third, and so forth, alternating (though words this long are uncommon). In the standard accent, the unstressed vowels remain clear.


How awful is it?

Not too terribly, I don't think.

Two things:
1. /ɔ ɒ/ is a rather unlikely distinction unless there's a length difference too. Otherwise, I'd go with /o ɔ/ or /o ɒ/.
2. <í> for the schwa, and one sole digraph for /i/? Madness.

[Lyktorna]

The stress is always on the first syllable, with secondary stress on the third, and so forth

Hurhur.

To post something remotely constructive (maybe), /ʈ/ looks lonely as the only retroflex.

[äreo]

Here's a new one I've been working on quite a bit this past week. I'm gonna use it as a proto-language for a nice big family.

/p pʲ t c k ʔ b bʲ d ɟ g/
/m mʲ n ɲ ŋ/
/f fʲ v vʲ s z ɬ ɮ ʃ ʒ ç ʝ x ɣ ʁ h/
/j l ʎ/
/a ɑ ɛ e i ɔ o u œ y/
/æ̃ ɑ̃ ɪ̃ ɔ̃ ʉ̃ ɞ̃/

-syllable structure is (K/C)V(F/C), where K is any of /hp hpʲ ht hk hc fp fpʲ ft fk fc sp spʲ st sk sc pl kl hpl hkl spl skl pw tw kw fw sw xw mf ms mx nf ns nx/; F is any of /hp hpʲ ht hk hc fp fpʲ ft fk fc sp spʲ st sk sc pl kl hpl hkl spl skl fs fx ʔs/; C is any consonant; and V is any vowel.
-all oral and nasal vowels, as well as /p t k b d g f s ʃ x/, can be long; geminate consonants may appear medially and finally.
-stress/pitch:
---in dialects with stress accent, stress is on the first syllable, at least regarding roots; clitics/prefixes are unstressed, and orthographically are usually inferred but sometimes indicated with an apostrophe.
---in dialects with pitch accent, historically stressed syllables have a high pitch, and syllables ending in /h/ have a low pitch.

And yes, I know, it's typical of conlangs in that it has such a large vowel set and such, but this is what I got with the sound changes I used.

Aq los riimaéatkokäpüq.
/ɑʔ lɔs ʁiːmɑeɑtkɔkapyʔ/
[ɑĦ ɭɔx ˈɰiɪ.mɑ.eˌjɑt.kɔ.kaˈpʏĦ]
aq los riima-é-atko-kä-püq
DEM.PROX forget.PST cause-3P.NOM-JUS-MP-make.PST
I forgot why they had to make those.

[Nortaneous]

what is [Ħ]

[äreo]

what is [Ħ]

Faucalised voice. I wanted to use the cute little underdots (strong artic.) that you often see in the literature, but I couldn't find a way to type/input it without another character already modified. In fact, I think I've seen you yourself use that diacritic (along with the ones for breathy and creaky). Source?

[Nortaneous]

I've probably used it as a superscript: ^Ħ is extIPA for faucalized voice.

[Xephyr]

Another month. Another conlang. Another phonology. Woo...

• Long vowels are pronounced longer than short vowels. There is no difference in quality-- lax vs. tense is determined by syllable stress and openness/closedness

• p t c ƛ g q are voiceless unaspirated, k č are aspirated
• č is an allophone of k in the vicinity of i. There are conditions but I won't list them cause who cares.
• s, along among the consonants, has a contrastive geminate ss

Syllable structure

CV(C)
CV(w,y)C#

V = any long or short vowel


Other details will only bore you.

[Chagen]

Why are you using that dumb Americanist transcription

[Xephyr]

Because your face.

[----]

Why are you using that dumb Americanist transcription

Because it's pretty convenient for the types of languages that it's used for, and the phonology he just posted is pretty reminiscent of those languages.

[roninbodhisattva]

Why are you using that dumb Americanist transcription

Because it's pretty convenient for the types of languages that it's used for, and the phonology he just posted is pretty reminiscent of those languages.

Couldn't have said it better. But I digress:

1) Having one aspirate stop and having it be /kʰ/ is weird.
2) Having one contrasting geminate is a little weird as well.

Other details will only bore you.

Blatantly untrue.

[Nortaneous]

Xephyr: Looks interesting. Why is aspiration contrastive at only one POA? Also, how do you get charts that don't look like ass?

Anyway, time to redo Cherun so hopefully I won't keep completely hating it. Can't be bothered with a shinier presentation than lists. I'm tired as hell so the phrasing is probably awkward but fuck it.

Consonants:
/pʲ pʷ t c k ʔ/ <p b t j k '>
/pʲʰ pʷʰ tʰ kʰ/ <ph bh th kh>
/fʲ ɸʷ s ʃ x h/ <f v s c x h>
/mʲ mʷ n ɲ ŋ/ <my m n ny g>
/ɬˠ ɬʲ ɫ ʎ/ <ll lly l ly>
/t͡ɬ c͡ʎ̥˔/ <tl kl>
/j w/ <y w>

Vowels:
/a e i o ɯ/ <a e i o u>
/aː ɛː eː iː oː ɯː/ <aa ae ee ii oo uu>
/a˞ ɚ o˞/ <ar ur or>
/a˞ː e˞ː ɚː o˞ː/ <aar er eur oor>
/ai̯ əi̯ əɯ̯ eə̯ iə̯ ɯə̯ uə̯/ <ai ei eu ea ie ue ua>

Phonation:
Cherun has a register system, consisting of two phonations, faucalized voice, and nasality; they are written with register letters at the end of the syllable. Epenthetic vowels (more on them later) count as syllable nuclei, so mied /mʲḭə̯/ + -ll -> mielld /mʲḭə̯ɬˠ/, but jeamz /ceə̯^Ħmˠ/ + -ll -> jeazmll /ceə̯^Ħmˠə̆ɬˠ/. (Note that the epenthetic vowel is not technically phonemic; it's included in that transcription for ease of reading.)

Creaky: <d>
Breathy: <h>
Faucalized: <z>
Nasal: <n>

Phonotactics:
Syllable structure is CV(C), but /ʔ h n ŋ j w/ cannot occur in codas, and the distinction between plain and aspirated consonants is neutralized in that position. Geminated consonants cannot occur; if two of the same consonant are brought into sequence by morphological processes (if I add any that could) or compounding, one consonant drops. However, /a e/ are commonly realized as [ə ɛ] in closed syllables, and that occurs even if degemination opens the syllable. Some dialects merge /ɯ/ into /a/ in closed syllables.

Non-glottal non-approximant consonants can be grouped into two categories: palatal and velar. The palatal consonants p f my correspond to the nonpalatal consonants b v m, but the nonlabial palatal consonants each correspond to two nonpalatal consonants: j to t k, c to s x, ny to n g, etc. The only exception is kl, which only corresponds to tl. Nonpalatal consonants cannot occur after i and are rare after e, and palatal consonants cannot occur after u and are rare after centering diphthongs, especially ie. (Palatal consonants written as <Cy> digraphs drop the <y> after <i>.) Velar consonants cannot appear before i ie; palatal consonants written as <Cy> digraphs also drop the <y> in that position.

...oh wow this is sort of evolving toward becoming Himmaswa, what the hell, it originated as a Marshallese ripoff

[clawgrip]

I guess you like messy vowel systems. The vowel system and the phonation is approaching Himmaswa, but there are a number of differences as well.

The consonant inventory is significantly more complex than that of Himmaswa, and the coda consonants are completely different (Himmaswa only allows k, ch, t, p, ŋ, ɲ, n, m, l in codas). Initial consonant clusters however seem to be more complex in Himmaswa, which allows unusual combinations like kp, jb, nt, pd, mk (actually pə̆d and mə̆k), etc., Also, creaky voice is phonemic only in two vowels, breathy voice only only in five, and there is no faucalized or nasal phonation.

[Nortaneous]

The main influence is definitely in the vowel system; before, it was just /a e i o ɯ aː eː iː oː ɯː/ and a few diphthongs. This is actually the first time I've gone with a messy vowel system. Of the other ones that are developed to a usable point, none besides Arve have more than six vowels, and Arve isn't messy as much as just large.

...No, wait, that one's definitely messy, just in a different way: /a ɛ ɞ ʌ ɔ e ø i y ʊ u aɔ ʊi ɛa ɛu ie yø uo ʌi øy ɔu/, although the overlong vowels (i.e. the diphthongs besides the first two) can only occur before certain consonants in native vocabulary, and there's a lot of dialectal variation -- some dialects reduce the vowel system significantly, some monophthongize the diphthongs, and some add a creaky-voiced diphthong series. So words like särg, scheng, stön, and zütte:
standard: [sɛːa̯ʀ], [çiːe̯ʀ], [çʊi̯n], [ˈtsøtɪj]
northern: [seː], [jeː], [jyn], [ˈtsœy̯tɪj]
midland: [seːə̯ʀ], [çiːə̯ʀ], [çʊi̯n], [tsø̰ːy̯]
southern: [sæːχ], [ɕeːχ], [ɕɨn], [ˈsɞðɞ]

I didn't mention epenthetic vowels, but they're possible in Cherun. There can be words like jpa, pta and mka, but they'd be pronounced with a short schwa between the two consonants, and the schwa becomes a full vowel in most cases in most of the descendants.

[Xephyr]

1) Having one aspirate stop and having it be /kʰ/ is weird.

Long answer: Well I kinda wanted to have an aspirate series, but also kinda didn't. And Zuni (which is a big source of inspir-- err.. theft and feature-mining for my conlang) has [p t kʰ] for /p t k/, so I thought ok, maybe the velars will be more likely to have an aspirate here?
Short answer: Vietnamese!

2) Having one contrasting geminate is a little weird as well.

Hmm... Yeah. I originally had /s/ + all the plosives as geminates, but decided I didn't want to have too many "hard" stops going everywhere. Maybe I'll put them back in. Maybe.

Also, how do you get charts that don't look like ass?

Microsoft Word

[finlay]

1) Having one aspirate stop and having it be /kʰ/ is weird.

Long answer: Well I kinda wanted to have an aspirate series, but also kinda didn't. And Zuni (which is a big source of inspir-- err.. theft and feature-mining for my conlang) has [p t kʰ] for /p t k/, so I thought ok, maybe the velars will be more likely to have an aspirate here?

Actually yeah, or at least more likely to have a greater VOT. In English k>t>p in terms of how aspirated they are (how large their VOT is).

[2+3 clusivity]

Xephyr, are you posting your charts via a screenshot of word and then using image hosting? Or something else? If you are using image hosting, which site?

[Whimemsz]

Cherun

I like it. But, how do you distinguish between coda /n/ and nasalization of the vowel in your transcription? Or between coda /h/ and breathy voice? Since final <n> and <h> seem to be used to represent both.

[Nortaneous]

I don't, since they can't occur in codas, and there's no potential for ambiguity word-medially since onsets are required.

[Cedh]

A quick diversion:

Code: Select all

    t’  k’  kʷ’ ʔ
    t   k   kʷ
    s   x   xʷ
m   n
    l   ɰ   w

i   ɯ u
ɛ   ʌ ɔ
   a

Syllable structure is (C)(C)V(C), with possible onset clusters consisting of a non-glottalic obstruent followed by any other non-glottalic consonant, or of a glottalic obstruent (i.e. ejective or glottal stop) or a nasal followed by an approximant. Coda consonants are limited to /ʔ m n l/ word-medially, and /ʔ t k kʷ m n l/ word-finally. Vowel hiatus is fairly common; however, whenever a back vowel precedes another back vowel of different rounding, an epenthetic semivowel with the rounding of the first vowel is inserted between them. /ɰ/ becomes [j] adjacent to any plain velar consonant or adjacent to a front vowel (i.e. /i ɛ a/). Remaining /ɰ/, as well as all other prevocalic velar consonants, become labialised immediately after /u/. Labialised velars are not distinguished from plain velars immediately before /u/; clusters of any (plain or labialised) velar plus /w/ are not distinguished from the corresponding labialised velar consonant; and /ɰ/ is not distinguished from /w/ adjacent to another labialised velar consonant either. However, plain and labialised velars are clearly distinct from one another when in a cluster with a non-velar consonant, in which case labialisation phonetically spreads to all consonants in the cluster. Non-ejective plosives are voiced after /m n l/, and aspirated elsewhere. When preceded by a fricative or a phonetically aspirated plosive, /l/ is pronounced as a fricative [ɬ].

[txmmj]

[Xephyr]

I see what you're trying to do with the orthography, using <i> for consonant palatalization, so you don't want any of your vowel letters to begin with that letter, but...

1) There are better ways of doing that. Like using <ee oo> for /i u/. Some natlangs do that. It's a bit silly, but better than the weird combinations you're using right now
2) You could use <j> for palatalization, which would let you be much more uhh.. sensible.. with how you write vowels.
3) You seemingly go to such lengths to avoid special characters, but then use uelig for /2Y/? Really? Fucking uelig??? That letter barely even exists!