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beep boop bump

Taking a few ideas from the random phonology maker thread, here's Kanagy [kɑdnɑgʲ], another Hathic lang. I'm killing Kastas because the sound changes are shit, so this is what's taking its place.
<m n t ty gy k w s i ỹ u e ẽ a ã>

As with the other Hathic langs, Gadaye *p shifted to ʔ, but this was lost entirely in Kanagy. Voiced stops shifted to nasals, and the resulting *ŋ merged with k. (as in some dialects of Maori) *j underwent fortition to gʲ, and hell if I know where tʃ came from but I'm guessing t̠. Kanagy /ɛ ɑ/ correspond to Gadaye *æ *ɔ. (shit, guess the lang should be called Kenegy, but I don't like that as much so I'll find a way around it -- probably dentals were phonetically velarized and palatals shifted to dentals when the preceding syllable had a velar, and then magic for the second vowel ) I guess Gadaye *f was actually [ɸ]. ɨ̃ is the result of a merger of the high nasal vowels.

I think it's about time I post the sounds of my second project (which I have no idea how I will write )

Stops: p t k b d g pʼ tʼ kʼ
Nasals: m n ŋ
Fricatives: s ʂ x χ ʁ h
Affricates: t͡s t͡sʼ ʈ͡ʂ ʈ͡ʂʼ
Approximants/Liquids: l r j~ɣ

Vowels: a e i ɤ ɯ ɵ ɞ ɐ

/ŋ/ is an allophone of n in front of all velar sounds, also /ɴ/ can occasionally occur in front of the uvulars. I might put /q/ in but I'm not so sure.
/ɣ/ becomes /j/ in final position and when medial or initial in front of front vowels.
Other sounds may be added or taken away and there's probably gonna be some more allophony but this is a very new project of mine so anything's possible at this point.

Still working out more broad phonetic rules (and basically everything other than the phoneme inventory), I just have a bunch of really specific ones that involve, e.g. diphthongization of most long vowels and some short vowels, etc.

/m n ŋ m: n: ŋ:/
/p b t d g q ʔ/
/g:/
/t' q'/
/ɓ ɗ/
/ɸ v s̺ s̻ ʁ/
/s̺:/
/ɬ l w j/
/ɑ i u ɑ: i: u: ɑe æu øy ɑ:e æ:u ø:y/

Some of the more important allophonic rules:
p -> p: (unconditionally)
u u: -> ʉ ʉ: (unconditionally)
s̺j s̻j s̺:j -> ʂ ɕ ʂ:
s̺ -> ʃ / V_(C,#)
ŋ ŋ: -> ɲ ɲ: / '_F
p t q -> pʰ tʰ qʰ / '_V
V: -> V / _ʔ
ʔ -> j / F_
C' -> C̚ / _# (if that doesn't show up right, it says implosives turn to unreleased at the end of words)
-nasalization of vowels before nasals, and m -> 0 / _# generally (always in verb forms, usually also elsewhere)
-nasal assimilation to following POA (though I have an idea about progressive nasal assimilation as well, i.e. the following sound becomes the same POA as the nasal, so /np/ -> [nt]...probably a bit unrealistic, but I think it would be interesting)
-There's a LOT of allophony with the vowels (though nothing like i -> e / q_ or something that other 3-vowel systems have), more than I really want to type out here.

Stress is usually on the first syllable, or on the first syllable containing either an accented vowel (á, í, ú, representing /æ:u ø:y, ɑe ɑ:e, ø:y/) or a geminate consonant, which for the purpose of diachronics consists of: /m: n: ŋ: p g: t' q' ɓ ɗ s̺: ts̻ ɬ/. There are some rare exceptions that will probably just have to be learned individually (one I can think of right now is sfoël /s̺ɸøy.'iːl/ [s̺ɸø.”ɥil], and its inflected forms. It's not because of the umlaut because there are other words that contain unaccented syllables that also have umlauts).

Also phonotactics...(will be worked out as more words are created). Right now it's something like (C)(C)V(C), with more specificity to come later.

Lhueslue:
/m n ŋ/ <m n ng>
/p b t d k ɡ q/ <p b t d k g q>
/tʃ/ <ch>
/f v θ s z ʃ ʒ ɕ x χ h/ <f v th s z sh j c xh x h>
/r/ <r>
/ɻ j w/ <rh y w>
/ɬ̪͆* l/ <lh l>
*This is a voiceless interdental lateral fricative.

/i y u/ <i ue u>
/e ø ɘ o/ <e oe ie o>
/ɛ/ <ee>
/æ ɑ/ <ae a>

Leþwin

Consonants: Vowels: Some quick notes:
I'm still having some issues with my transliteration scheme, I'm attempting to balance aesthetic appeal with some degree of consistency. In consonants where there is no easy Romanization scheme for an unvoiced counterpart (i.e. trills and laterals) I use the dot below as I do on my breathy vowels. It should be noted that the Romanization may be changed at a later date but as for right now this one is functional enough for me.

<ts> and <dz> have post-alveolar allophones which occur rather regularly. When transcribing them I will use <tš> and <dž> to concede to both myself and anyone else who reads the transcription.

/h̪͆/ is a bidental fricative which is contrasted with the interdental fricatives /θ ð/.

Trills are realized as both voiceless/breathy and voiced/modal the last two trills /ṙ̝ r̝/ are IPA-ified as so, I'm not sure if this is necessarily correct as the friction occurs not at the alveolar POA but rather at the teeth, much like the bidental fricative. These fricative trills also demonstrate a voicing distinction.

The approximant /w/ is in it's own right a phoneme but nowadays it seems that people are labializing where /w/ follows a consonant.

Leþwin has a Tense/Lax vowel system with three modes of phonation: Modal, Breathy and Creaky. These distinctions manifest themselves in the syllabic consonants as well. Length is indeed phonemic both for vowels and consonants (syllabic or not). Transcribing long vowels or consonants is done by doubling the phoneme.

Like some Salishan languages consonants can occur in the nucleus.

Leþwin doesn't yet have a finer description of phonotactics but I'm working on it.


Edit: My apologies on the symbols in the trill section being inconsistent as well as the o with the ogonek capitalizing.

Classical Pralma, the language Määda derives from, has

/p pʲ pʷ pʲʷ t tʲ t͡p d dʲ d͡b k kʲ kʷ k͡p/ <p pj pw pjw t tj tp d dj db k kj kw kp>
/m mʲ mʷ mʲʷ n nʲ n͡m ŋ ŋʲ ŋʷ ŋ͡m/ <m mj mw mjw n nj nm ng ngj ngw ngm>
/β βʲ z zʲ ɣ ɣʲ ɣʷ/ <b bj z zj g gj gw>
/ʋ ɾ l lʲ l͡β/ <w r l lj lb>
/ɑ ɑː ɔ ɔː o oː u uː/ <à àà ò òò o oo u uu>
/a aː ɛ ɛː e eː i iː/ <a aa ä ää e ee i ii>
/ɐ ɜ ɜː ɨ/ <a è èè ì>

Note that:

-/w/ and labialisation are actually labio-dental, as in Yele.
-n, t, d, and z are dental.
-there is contrastive gemination of all the oral and nasal stops, of which the former may occur initially.
-any clusters of the following forms are allowed: stop + approximant, nasal + approximant, fricative + approximant, stop + fricative, and fricative + nasal.
-but all consonants in a cluster with a palatalised consonant are palatalised: atja [atʲɐ] + -la [lɐ] = atjla [atʲlʲɐ]
-same goes for labialisation: äpwà [ɛpʷɐ] + -bi [βi] = äpwwi [ɛpʷʋi]

Pralma's descendant languages do various different things:

apjä [apʲɛ] Määda ääpse [æːpsɛ], Iitselo ape [ape] explode
tpakja [t̪͡pakʲa] Määda tpakse [t̪͡paksɛ], Iitselo tpats [t̪͡pat͡ʃ] hashish
otènnä [ot̪ɜn̪ːɛ] Määda otönde [oθœn̪d̪ɛ], Iitselo utɨn [ut̪ɨn̪] hold, contain, comprise
igukwò [iɣukʷɔ] Määda ykvõ [ykfɔ], Iitselo igupo [iɣupo]
komizna [komizn̪a] Määda kominse [komiz̃ɛ] (often reduced to just konve [koʋ̃ɛ]), Iitselo komin [kɔmin]


Määda has

/p t̪ d̪ k t̪͡p d̪͡b k͡p/ <p t d k tp db kp>
/m n̪ n̪͡m ɲ ŋ ŋ͡m/ <m n nm ñ ŋ ŋm>
/mb nd̪ ɲɟ ŋɡ n͡md͡b ŋ͡mg͡b/ <mb nd ñg ŋg nb ŋb>
/p͡ɸ p͡f p͡s t̪͡f t̪͡θ t͡s k͡f k͡s k͡x/ <pp pv ps tv tt ts kv ks kk>
/ɸ β f s z z͡ʋ ç/ <h b f s z zv c>
/ʋ̃̃ ʋ̃ʲ z̃ ʋ̃ː z̃ː/ <mv nv ns mmv nns>
/r l j/ <r l i>
/r̃ l̃/ <nr nl>
/ɑo ɔ ɤː o oː u uː/ <aa õ õõ o oo u uu>
/aɛ a ɛ æː e eː œ øː i iː y yː/ <ae a ä ää e ee ö öö i ii y yy>

-/t d/ are /θ ð/ between vowels.
-there are no further clusters than the affricates.
-more on this and on Iitselo later

äreo wrote:Classical Pralma, the language Määda derives from, has

/p pʲ pʷ pʲʷ t tʲ t͡p d dʲ d͡b k kʲ kʷ k͡p/ <p pj pw pjw t tj tp d dj db k kj kw kp>
/m mʲ mʷ mʲʷ n nʲ n͡m ŋ ŋʲ ŋʷ ŋ͡m/ <m mj mw mjw n nj nm ng ngj ngw ngm>
/β βʲ z zʲ ɣ ɣʲ ɣʷ/ <b bj z zj g gj gw>
/ʋ ɾ l lʲ l͡β/ <w r l lj lb>
/ɑ ɑː ɔ ɔː o oː u uː/ <à àà ò òò o oo u uu>
/a aː ɛ ɛː e eː i iː/ <a aa ä ää e ee i ii>
/ɐ ɜ ɜː ɨ/ <a è èè ì>

Your nasals would put an Aboriginal Australian Conlanger's n00blang to shame. That's just fucking impressive.

you should post the diacritics sometime.

Needs some whistled sibilants. They're basically labiodentalized, so it'd even be plausible.

Also, now I want to create a Kannow descendant with doubly articulated consonants.

Kvan wrote:

äreo wrote:Classical Pralma, the language Määda derives from, has

/p pʲ pʷ pʲʷ t tʲ t͡p d dʲ d͡b k kʲ kʷ k͡p/ <p pj pw pjw t tj tp d dj db k kj kw kp>
/m mʲ mʷ mʲʷ n nʲ n͡m ŋ ŋʲ ŋʷ ŋ͡m/ <m mj mw mjw n nj nm ng ngj ngw ngm>
/β βʲ z zʲ ɣ ɣʲ ɣʷ/ <b bj z zj g gj gw>
/ʋ ɾ l lʲ l͡β/ <w r l lj lb>
/ɑ ɑː ɔ ɔː o oː u uː/ <à àà ò òò o oo u uu>
/a aː ɛ ɛː e eː i iː/ <a aa ä ää e ee i ii>
/ɐ ɜ ɜː ɨ/ <a è èè ì>

Your nasals would put an Aboriginal Australian Conlanger's n00blang to shame. That's just fucking impressive.

Gotta love them geminate nasal fricatives Oh wait, that's just Pralma you're referring to. Well those eleven nasals are actually just reduced from Yélî Dnye's thirteen. Most of Pralma's consonants, and all of its vowels, are stolen from Yélî Dnye.

roninbodhisattva wrote:you should post the diacritics sometime.

I presume you mean 'diachronics'? lols. I'll try to flesh out the finer details and make everything presentable over the next week when I've got time.

Nortaneous wrote:Needs some whistled sibilants. They're basically labiodentalized, so it'd even be plausible.

That'd be pretty awesome.

Nortaneous wrote:Also, now I want to create a Kannow descendant with doubly articulated consonants.

That, too, would be pretty awesome. I rather like Kannow and its descendants so far.

As well, I'd love to have a change like that in Oogami of /i i: u u:/ > /s s: f f:/. It's pretty weird - where would it be most likely to occur, if any-one-where? Pralma, or one of its descendants? Perhaps a creole or fusion with a language already having such a change? Maybe some sort of code or game like Pig Latin or Verlan?

Think any of these vowel systems is too crazy to work? I'm especially fond of the third one:

/i u e o/
/i u ɛ ɔ/
/e u a ɔ/

Two front, two back or two high, two mid/low.
It's hard to mess up a four vowel system if you've balanced it at all.


I've got:
/e o a ɪ ʊ ə/

Where the second three pattern as a reduced set of the first three (which have long phonemes as well), respectively.

Well, this is what I'm playing around with:

/t k ʔ m n ŋ s h ʋ l/
/e u a ɔ/

The syllable structure is basically C(C)V(C), but with limitations. Clusters are limited to two consonants. Those that can occur initially and medially are /ks ts hʋ hl/, realized [ts kʃ xʋ̥ xl̥]. Those that can occur only medially are /ns nt ŋk kt/. Word finally, codas can be /n t k/.

I like the diamond formation. I'd imagine some allophony of either /e/ or /u/ to cover the high front area.

What happens to words where the coda doesn't fit with the onset of the next syllable, such as /-tm-/?

What happens to words where the coda doesn't fit with the onset of the next syllable, such as /-tm-/?

As in when affixation happens? I haven't quite worked that out yet. Probably some kind of epenthesis or the consonant disappears. Otherwise, I might allow such clusters across morpheme boundaries.

Proto-Kunnu-lūjungo
/m n ŋ/ <m n ng>
/p pʰ t tʰ k kʰ/ <p p' t t' k k'> [b d ɡ] <b d g>
/ts tʃ dʒ/ <ts ch j>
/f s z ʃ ʒ h/ <f s z sh zh h>
/r j w/ <r y w> [l] <l>

/i y u uː ue/ <i ü u ū ue>
/e ø o oː/ <e ö o ō>
/ɑ ɑi ɑu/ <a ai au>

My current project, an English-derived future-lang
(Any resemblances to Semitic Languages are coincidental)

Lenis Plosives: p t tˤ k q ʔ
Fortis Plosives: pʰ tʰ tˤʰ kʰ qʰ
Affricates: ʦ ʦʰ ʧ ʧʰ
Nasals: m n ɲ
Voiceless Fricatives: f s ʃ x ħ h
Voiced Fricatives: v z ʒ ɣ ʕ
Approximants: w j ɥ l ʎ
Rhotic: ɾ

High: i iː y yː u uː
Mid-High: e ø o
Mid: eː øː oː
Mid-Low: ɛ œ ɔ
Low: a aː

Diphthongs: ai au ɔi ɛu

If you are wondering where the uvulars, pharyngeals, and pharyngealized consonants come from, blame the Bunched R, which is now /ʕ/.

Example words:
throw /tˤɔ/
rich /ʕeʃ/
grill /qøː/
slap /ɬeːp/
America /ʔmeːqʰ/

hahaha, i love it.

the phonology to an as-yet unnamed Griets daughter lang. the final consonants of Griets influenced the quality of the preceding vowel before disappearing, hence the large number of vowels. from my notes:

vowels <ə y a ä â e ê i o ö u û> [ɨ ʉ a ɶ ɑ e̞ ɤ̞ː iː o ø̞ː u ɯ]
high <i ə y u û>
mid <e ê o ö>
low <a ä â>

<ê i ö> are always long. vowels without a diacritic can be lengthened by adding a macron, or by doubling. vowels can also be nasalized by adding an ogonek

röhar <ä> merges with <ö> (creating a length distinction between <ö> and <oö>), and <ê> with <aâ>
cee <a> and <ə> shift to <a> /ə/, <â> fronts to /a/, <ä> merges with <a> (some dialects and word variants have <o>), <ɯ> merges with <a>, <ê> with <aa>, <u> and <y> merge to <u> [ʉ]

diphthongs
<uy> /uʉ̯/
<iə> /iɨ̯/
<yy> /yʉ̯/

<yy> also stands for the less common /ʉː/
röhar has /ʉː/ universally for <yy>
cee has /wʉ/ for <uy>, /jɨ/ for <iə>, and /jʉ/ for <yy>

standard röhar cee
clothing [ɶxwɨ] [ø̞wɨ] [axwə]
kidney [syʉ̯] [hʉː] [sjʉ]
later [cɤ̞ː] [cɑː] [cəː]

pja "black"
pjaa "because"
bų "water"
buų "all, whole"

stops <k g p b t d c ǧ> /k g p b t d c ɟ/
fricatives <f s z ś š h> /f s z ç ʃ h/
nasals <m n> /m n/
trills <r ŕ> /r ʀ/
approximants <w j> /w j/

<h> becomes /x/ before <w u ə y>
<h> becomes /ç/ before <i j>
<h> is deleted before <w> in röhar
cee merges <ś> with <š>, has /ʧ/ for <c>, and /ʤ/ for <ǧ>
röhar merges <s> and <ś> with <h> (disappearing word-finally and before a consonant), and changes <z> to <s>

Radius Solis wrote:ʔh

Huh, among my phonology sketches I have these:

Labial: m p f
Dental: n̪ t̪ l̪
Alveolar: t͡s s r
Retroflex: ʈ ʈ͡ʂ ʂ
Palatal: ɲ j ʎ
Velar: k x ɰ
Uvular: ɴ q χ
Epiglottal: ʡ ʜ я
Glottal: ʔ ʔ͜h h

Bilabial: m p ʙ
Labiodental: p͡f f ʋ
Dental: n̪ t̪ l̪
Alveolar: t͡s s ɬ
Retroflex: ʈ ʈ͡ʂ ʂ
Palatal: ç j ʎ
Velar: ŋ k k͜x (or k k͜x x in some dialects)
Uvular: q χ ʀ
Glottal: ʔ ʔ͜h h

And then also this:
Labial: m b ʋ
Voiceless alveolar: t t͡s s
Voiced alveolar: n d z
Lateral alveolar: t͜ɬ ɬ ɮ
Palatal: ɲ j ʎ
Voiceless velar: k k͜x x
Voiced velar: ŋ ɡ ɣ
Uvular: q χ ʀ
Epiglottal: ʡ ʡ͜ʜ ʜ

Something I'm playing around with for an isolating language. The first part represents syllable initial consonants/clusters, while the second part represents syllable finals. Something I didn't put on this was that long vowels may also occur before nasals. Also, the 'pure' mid vowels should be /e e:/ and /o o:/, not the open mid counterparts...and the 'dental' is probably split between dental and alveolar places. There are some cooccurence restrictions between initials and finals, but I haven't figured all of them out yet. Also, I'll probably be adding at least some sibilant + C clusters.

The language is going to be probably towards the monosyllabic end of things, though because of the size of the inventory and the fact I'm not including tone, I'm probably gonna have to have polysyllabic morphemes as well. Anyway:

I'm not sure if I ever posted this one… It's based on a discussion here around 2008 and… fuckitnotrelevant:
/p t c k/
/θ s x h/
/m̥ n̥ ɲ̊/
/m n ɲ/
/ʋ l r j/
The velars have uvular allophones next to back vowels.
Buccal fricativs have voiced allophones in voiced contexts, also initially.

Vowels: /i ʉ u ɑ/(ː), /ə/, /əj ɑw/

Syllable structure CV(C).

Example words:
terakvaasuxmit [ˌtərɑqʋɑːˈzuʁmit]
uñiivacxamhyykap [ˌuɲiːʋɑcχɑˈm̥ʉːqɑp]
xarvytxaanaa [ˌʁɑrʋʉˈtχɑːn̪ɑː]

It reminds me a teensy bit of Nivkh. Just a teensy bit though.

bah, it's not like Nivkh unless /r̥ r/ pattern as fricatives

Nortaneous wrote:bah, it's not like Nivkh unless /r̥ r/ pattern as fricatives

Oh shush. I said 'teensy'. Details. They're not important to linguistic analysis, everyone knows that.

roninbodhisattva wrote:It reminds me a teensy bit of Nivkh. Just a teensy bit though.

Oh nice, the influence is visible?

Some bits taken from Icelandic and Eskimo-Aleut as well. I'm thinking this lang should be polysynthetic or therearound…