Post your conlang's phonology

[Wattmann]

/ɢʰ/

Do you even know what that sound sounds like

A breathy-voiced uvular plosive. Unattested, but plausible for a language with both voiced aspirates and uvulars.

It's been posited by certain people for PIE (where palatal = velar and velar = uvular, apparently), but I'm asking him specifically whether he knows how that sound sound like or not.

[kingdemon]

Not sure exactly how to do this and I can't seem to find IPA to help out so I've included a brief description of the phones.

Tiyen (the language's name) spoken by ReiiT

consonants
l - voiced interdental
s - voiceless fricative // ss(sh) - voiceless fricative or ss(ch) - t+sh (double 's' becomes "sh" or "ch" depending...no real clue for change, letter looks slightly different though depending on whether or not it is "sh" or "ch")
m - voiced labial stop
d - voiced dental stop
w - voiced labial approximant
x - voiceless velar fricative
y - voiced approximant // g - voiced velar fricative (same letter, makes a "g" when alone for word "because")
T - voiceless interdental fricative (th as in throw)
f - voiceless labiodental fricative
z - voiced fricative
j - voiced fricative
v - voiced labiodental
t - voiceless dental stop
r - voiced glottal approximant
n - voiceless dental nasal stop
h - voiceless glottal stop

vowels
u - as in ugly // uu (oo) - as in tool
o - as in old
i - as in ill // ii/iy (ee) - as in eel
e - as in elder
a - as in off

aii/ay - iy as in ice // ae (at the end of a word) - iy as in ice
eii/ey - ay as in aim

A lot of combinations in the vowels to create more "vowel phones", but these aren't letters. I hope this was ok...

[Chagen]

/ɢʰ/

Do you even know what that sound sounds like

A breathy-voiced uvular plosive. Unattested, but plausible for a language with both voiced aspirates and uvulars.

It's been posited by certain people for PIE (where palatal = velar and velar = uvular, apparently), but I'm asking him specifically whether he knows how that sound sound like or not.

I didn't, but I just tried it out and I nearly choked, so I think that will be one of the first ones to go in my diachronic sound changes.

Anyway, I'm surprised that you didn't find the gigantic amount of plosives odd.

[Wattmann]

I didn't, but I just tried it out and I nearly choked, so I think that will be one of the first ones to go in my diachronic sound changes.

Anyway, I'm surprised that you didn't find the gigantic amount of plosives odd.

(You shouldn't really choke on it, if you are you're doing it wrong - it's easier to make than a tenuis /ɢ/)

I didn't find it odd (even if that was your intention) because I'm doing things more odd than you can ever imagine! Muhahahaha! *cough cough*

[Pinetree]

An updated version of my InSc-clone phonology:

Code: Select all

Consonants (C)
	Obstruents (O)
		Plosives (P)				/p b t d k g/				<p b t d k g>
		Fricatives (Fr)				/ɸ β s z x/					<f v s z h>
		Affricates (Af)				/pf bv ts dz ks gz/			<pf bv ts dz ks gz>
	Liquids (L)
		Nasals (N)					/m n ŋ/						<m n ng>
		Flaps (Fl)					/ɾ/							<r>
		Approximants (Ap)			/j w/						Intervocalically <ð ǵ>, otherwise <j w>
		Lateral Aprozimants	(La)	/l/							<l>
Vowels (V)
	"Thin" Vowels					/ø y/						<ö ü>
	"Plain" Vowels					/a ɛ ɪ ɔ ʊ/					<a e i o u>
	"Broad" Vowels					/ɔ̯a ɛi̯ ʊi̯ ɔ̯u ʉ̯u/			<á é í ó ú>
Phonological Processes
	Voiceless plosives and affricates are preaspirated following a vowel (this carries through across word and syllable boundaries)
	All obstruents palatalize prior to thin vowels, and labialize before broad vowels. No similar process occurs before plain vowels.
			In alveolar fricatives and affricates (including /ks gz/), the palatalization is realized by turning them into post-alveolars. For example, /sy/ is pronounced [ʃy], and /gzø/ as [gʒø].
	When neighboring an obstruent, nasals assimilate the POA of that consonant, including across word boundaries.
	Liquids devoice immediately prior to voiceless plosives and affricates.
Syllable Structure
        (Fr)(C)V(L|Fr)(P|Af)

[Nortaneous]

affricates almost always pattern (mostly) as separate stop series. high german langs are a significant exception and every nooblanger ever tries to rip it off and ends up with totally absurd shit like /bv/. and it's debatable whether german should be analyzed as having affricates at all!

also i am still skeptical about the existence of 'heterorganic affricates'

[WeepingElf]

affricates almost always pattern (mostly) as separate stop series. high german langs are a significant exception and every nooblanger ever tries to rip it off and ends up with totally absurd shit like /bv/. and it's debatable whether german should be analyzed as having affricates at all!

In most languages, affricates indeed pattern as extra stop series, e. g. in Armenian and Georgian. There are, however, exceptions. You mentioned German and its dialects. Basque has affricates corresponding to its three sibilants, but no voiced ones (though it has voiced stops).

You also say it is debatable whether German has affricates at all. I am a native speaker, and I am not sure either! However, the affricates, if that is what they are, evolved from single stops in some environments (in some others, from geminates). Standard German has /pf/ (which is not perfectly homorganic, consisting of a bilabial stop and a labiodental fricative) and /ts/; the dialects of Switzerland, Vorarlberg and Tyrol also have /kx/. But it tells a lot that /pf/ has shifted to /f/ for very many speakers, with increasing tendency, and /kx/ is likewise disappearing fast from the dialects that still have it (in the Middle Ages, /kx/ occured farther north, including all of Austria and large parts of Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg). In 200 years, we will probably be left with /ts/ alone (and /tʃ/ and /dʒ/ in loanwords), and <pf> will just be an archaic spelling for /f/ - unless another orthography reform abolishes it.

This did not stop me from coming up with this phoneme inventory for Proto-Eteohelvetic, a relative of Old Albic spoken in Switzerland ca. 1000 BC:

/p t k/
/pʰ tʰ kʰ/
/pf ts kx/
/f s x h/
/m n ŋ/
/l ɫ/
/r ʀ/
/w j/
/i e a o u/
/i: e: a: o: u:/

This is just a first draft, though.

also i am still skeptical about the existence of 'heterorganic affricates'

/pf/ is certainly a border case, but Greek /ps/ and /ks/ definitely aren't affricates, even if there are single letters for them.

[Vuvuzela]

affricates almost always pattern (mostly) as separate stop series. high german langs are a significant exception and every nooblanger ever tries to rip it off and ends up with totally absurd shit like /bv/. and it's debatable whether german should be analyzed as having affricates at all!

also i am still skeptical about the existence of 'heterorganic affricates'

Well, Wari' is supposed to have /t̪͡ʙ̥/ with no corresponding /ʙ̥/ or /ʙ/, although it's rare enough that one might conceivably analyze it into oblivion.

[finlay]

In 200 years, we will probably be left with /ts/ alone (and /tʃ/ and /dʒ/ in loanwords),

Wait a minute. I know you're talking about the future, but tʃ is quite definitely part of German – it's even in the native name of the language.... you speak here as if it's not or something.

[Nortaneous]

In most languages, affricates indeed pattern as extra stop series, e. g. in Armenian and Georgian. There are, however, exceptions. You mentioned German and its dialects. Basque has affricates corresponding to its three sibilants, but no voiced ones (though it has voiced stops).

they pattern as fortis fricatives in basque. (also, aren't voiced affricates rarer than voiceless ones? or is that just a european thing? i know slavic langs tend to have gaps there, at least...)

[Click]

Croatian has a gap in the affricate series (no /dz/). I am pretty sure that it changed to /z/.

[Tropylium]

Siberian Dwarvish

Needs more /ŋ/ or /ð/ to be authentically Siberian.

[WeepingElf]

In 200 years, we will probably be left with /ts/ alone (and /tʃ/ and /dʒ/ in loanwords),

Wait a minute. I know you're talking about the future, but tʃ is quite definitely part of German – it's even in the native name of the language.... you speak here as if it's not or something.

Oh damn, of course. That I missed it tells a lot about it being not perceived as a single phoneme, but rather a cluster of /t/ + /ʃ/

[Pinetree]

affricates almost always pattern (mostly) as separate stop series. high german langs are a significant exception and every nooblanger ever tries to rip it off and ends up with totally absurd shit like /bv/. and it's debatable whether german should be analyzed as having affricates at all!

Apparently I have a gap in my (admittedly not ample) knowledge of linguistic terminology - Could you please explain what you mean by "to pattern as X"?

[WeepingElf]

affricates almost always pattern (mostly) as separate stop series. high german langs are a significant exception and every nooblanger ever tries to rip it off and ends up with totally absurd shit like /bv/. and it's debatable whether german should be analyzed as having affricates at all!

Apparently I have a gap in my (admittedly not ample) knowledge of linguistic terminology - Could you please explain what you mean by "to pattern as X"?

"To pattern as X" = "to follow the same pattern as X". Example: Georgian, which is a typical language where affricates pattern as stops, has voiceless, voiced and glottalized stops, and likewise voiceless, voiced and glottalized affricates.

[2+3 clusivity]

Phonology8.JPG (63.77 KiB) Viewed 5523 times

[Pinetree]

affricates almost always pattern (mostly) as separate stop series. high german langs are a significant exception and every nooblanger ever tries to rip it off and ends up with totally absurd shit like /bv/. and it's debatable whether german should be analyzed as having affricates at all!

Apparently I have a gap in my (admittedly not ample) knowledge of linguistic terminology - Could you please explain what you mean by "to pattern as X"?

"To pattern as X" = "to follow the same pattern as X". Example: Georgian, which is a typical language where affricates pattern as stops, has voiceless, voiced and glottalized stops, and likewise voiceless, voiced and glottalized affricates.

Okay. I get it. Thanks!

[communistplot]

Fonologia de Metoŋ:

Consonants
Nasal /m n nʷ ŋ ŋʷ ɴ ɴʷ/
Plosive /p pʰ pʼ t tʰ tʷ tʷʰ tʼ k kʰ kʷ kʷʰ kʽ q qʰ qʷ qʷʰ qʼ/
Fricative /ɸ s sʷ ɕ ɕʷ ˠç x xʷ/
Rhotic /r ʀ/
Glide /ʋ ɥ ɰ/
Lateral /l ʎ ʟ/
Affricate /p͡ɸ t͡s t͡sʰ t͡sʷ t͡sʷʰ t͡sʼ t͡ɕ t͡ɕʰ t͡ɕʷ t͡ɕʷʰ t͡ɕʼ k͡ç k͡x k͡xʼ/

Vowels
Front /i ɪ e/
Centre /ə a/
Back /ɯ u ʊ ʌ ɔ/

Syllable Structure
(C)(C)(G)V(C)(C)

Onset
-Any consonant, common
-Any glide if preceded by any non-labialised consonant
-Any fricative followed by any non-ejective plosive followed by any glide
-Any sound followed by any liquid or rhotic
-Any fricative followed by any ejective plosive
-Any two labialised consonants.

Coda
-Any liquid, glide, fricative, rhotic or nasal followed by any non-ejective consonant.
-Any single consonant.

Example syllables
kʼats skʰerk͡x ftɥə

Allophony

• ɥ(i, ə, ɪ) → y / (C)#_C
• ɰ(ə, ɯ, ʊ) → u / (C)#_C
• ɥ, ɰ → y̆, ɯ̯ / V_#
• p, ʟ → u̯ / _# (but only if the preceding word doesn't begin in a vowel)
• t, k, q → ʔ / _#
• Cʼ → Cː / V_V
• Cʼ → C / _#
• C → Cʷ / _(u, ʊ, ɔ)
• SC → ZC / V_V (doesn't affect any non-plain consonant)
• pʰ, tʰ, kʰ, qʰ → ɸ, θ, x, χ / _# / V_V
• tʷʰ, kʷʰ, qʷʰ → θʷ, xʷ, χʷ / _# / V_V
• ɪ, ə, ʊ → e, ɜ, o / _(q, ɴ)
• i, ɯ, u → ɪ, ə, ʊ / _(q, ɴ)
• ə → Ø / C_# (only affects multisyllabic words)
• V → V[+nasal] / _N
• sr, tr, nr → ʂ, ʈ, ɳ / V_V
• VV → VʔV

Morphoponology

• A particle beginning with a plosive has that plosive voiced (except ejectives) when preceded by a nasal or liquid
• Particles beginning in nasals lenit the preceding consonant or, if the preceding sound is a vowel, nasalise it

[Cedh]

Played around with Gen for a while, and got something I really like. I might use this as a substrate language for Hkətl’ohnim...

Code: Select all

 p  t  ts    k
 p’ t’ ts’   k’
 m  n
       s        h
 w  l  ɾ  j

 i     u        iː    uː
    ə              əː
    a              aː          ai  au

Orthography:
/j/ y
/iː uː aː əː/ ī ū ā ə̄
otherwise IPA or its text equivalent

Syllable structure: (C)(C)V(C)

Onset:
- zero
- any single consonant
- /p t k/ followed by /t k t’ k’ s m n l ɾ w j/, excluding the combinations **/tt kk tt’ kk’ pm tn/

Coda:
- zero
- one of the consonants /p t k s n l ɾ/

Basic allophony:
- /n/ assimilates in POA to a following non-coronal consonant
- /ɾ/ → [ɹ] / _[+coronal]
- /l ɾ h/ → [ɬ ʂ s] / [-voiced]_
- /lh ɾh nh/ → [ɬ ʂ s]
- /ə əː/ → [ɛ ɛː] / j_, _j
- /ə əː/ → [ɔ ɔː] / w_, _w
- /ə əː/ → [ɵ ɵː] / w_j, j_w

Prosody:
There is a dynamic stress accent, which is usually located on the last long vowel in the word. If there is no phonemic long vowel, the accent is placed on the antepenultimate syllable in words with three or more syllables where the antepenultimate syllable does not contain short /ə/, and on the penultimate syllable otherwise. A long vowel in a syllable immediately before the accent is shortened.

Sample pseudo-text:
Kənkā tuātu ta ləka siyūk’ə kau āyu kaitətiwə kəwū tutts’īyu sətə əkā. Tsīkə rūyatk’uti sa yətutkiaki wītə na yəkk’ə itəkāru ī. Təpkāna kə ru wuyə̄skik tātuyu! Wiuki tu k’ai tākə wā! Yətəkuwə̄ta āk’i ətə̄kə kətk’əyatik yu ukītsi si. Kutā tu tāki arāyu. Ətāsuttəyə p’awəti tələ irittək’a k’awəī kyit silə̄wə! Rīsu la əyərniwu sulk’ərətī kəkūna. Təwətəūkri əyāwə kəwit. Ya wəkitə tākast’ūni təkk’ū ai tīltə yā. Ik’ut a hātni t’urə təsəhūka. Sāti ukukwāltə a wīsi. Wasu ti tsilə̄ k’ənə? Ka tarəsni k’əptu əwakku təkri. Iyə məyə̄tu kitīra sa lat’a yau. Kə̄ rəlukəku ə tāktapwari t’ai. Ki ukasū t’əlyā lupyānə kə tilə tkəlūk. Ələyūlki kassātək rələ ts’īpwəlat iyaski kūmi? Tī a təlā k’ussalwi sīnu twa kūtəkə k’əra. Kətsakwə yarti takəttuhu. Li əri kəstə tī kəksa ts’ākə na wəta tuttəwukut? Kəyāyu ti wərkə yalatu əyu. Kwi attwə wakū tsa ītə k’witikya. Tāyəlu sa wat mīk’u takār ni lutə. Əki tu rūltai na āsəwə yə. Tkittunā. Āyətti kūllu i sawak’ə urə? Nitu wəyə̄yi ha yatukīntwə yatsīrə psa twə̄ni. Āsu pkip ta yiwakəlusa. Tikī na yun k’əyīk u yāyi rattə. Ta utəwək’iwa kitasi mi. Ikīkə risu.

[maıráí]

This is more an inventory than anything, of yet another conlang I've evolved from a minimal phonology challenge the ZBB held a year back.

Consonants

/m n ŋ/
m n g

/p t k/
p t k

/s ʃ x/
s sh h

/ts tʃ/
c ch

/ʋ ɹ ɰ/
w r j

/ⱱ ɾ/
b d

A terminal and initial consonant can form a single long consonant.
(kan nak /kan:ak/)
And there's a whole bunch of assimilation involved with terminals+initials. In short:
m n and g double a following m n or g. (kag ma /kam:a/)
p makes m, t, k and b long, turns n and g into a long m, and disappears before d c and ch.
t makes any following consonant long (kat kan /kak:an/)
k makes m, t, p and b long, turns n and m into a long g, and disappears before d c and ch.
s and h double fricatives and affricates.

The only allophony I have down is that /ⱱ ɾ ŋ/ become /b d g/ word-medially in fast or lazy speech, and that voicing also becomes slightly more prominent then as well, with s sh h c and ch becoming voiced around these allophones.
(If that's not how language works, my bad.)

Vowels

/i y a ɶ ɯ o/
i ị a ạ u o

Vowels can be short or long, and high/rising or low/falling.
Long = written twice. (nị > nịị)
Low = a macron, or an ogonek for the dotted/rounded vowels. (ta > tā) (tạ > tą)


Syllable form is (C)(j, w, i, u)VV(n, m, g, p, t, k, s, h). Syllables are more restricted in actuality, but that's the basic idea.


Text courtesy gen:
Nai chi sho hį nịịsōōchua? Wah tị nịạ gi sanwagchouhwạgoa sua. Mo hii soi hop tą mąn? Hao mịạgat cị chi rō. Hịk shi tịp soh? Mio gaa shįą rio gai kugainnwānuashịp kotịịmāō. Wīg nim kịạ giutui chį gjaa. Cii kịạ chaakāg mą tāī mịg. Sha chii cịị toah rwuo nīt. Kūh mąį cop mịs kją sii chiikiachaosīnchạh mīsnịpchio mia! Mōū jūk chai chjoshishoinokūō naa tuo shān tiot bi. Tainaisiomịị chịị kaonāōniu pūō kā mạchuoshwimio mo! Nịchāchih sūg kwii sīū jai dįg. Hjo nūnhūūshịp nut mīī choa rag maacha? Nōs bā mōsnā tiig mio nii ni. chim tị nwi tii kao! Kwapnūō gu hạ pwị mōām niu. Bi tiosip nīō chi shą sūp sia kua. Gii tin koa kainmiuchionii kōn tū kio nia tig gi nịh. Bok shoi tạị gą muo gįą. Naa kohgot co mąį noi tog? Haa san poa mịị mą sīg. Pino nįą mik cho tiu chịkū? Chōī wi mōg dąk saa. Mi sha gao mak cịh shjop. Shạpniikaomịạ chā chitāāboagịpkōā chu ko nāīchịp. Tio hịtạsgo ti tūīkạjuibah? Nwi mị cōkịị tīō maa po. Chu chou nou tī ni muu suh wu nog. Chuo rōā jaa wiora miu tauchịị!

[Nortaneous]

Northern Insular Kett

/p b t tB\_0 (d) ts k/ <p b t tw d c k>
/f v s~T x h/ <f v s h h> (h-cedilla, but I can't be bothered)
/m n J N/ <m n ni/in ng>
/z~D 4 j H w/ <l r i y u>
/a e/ <a e>

Dialectal features:
* l > z, alveolar fricatives may be realized as non-sibilants
* some speakers always have s l > T D and realize ts as s
* older speakers don't have preaspiration of geminated consonants, but younger speakers do
* palatal nasal from nasal mutation of /j/ and /nj jn/ clusters (but /ejn/ is [iJ])
* past tense on verbs and topicality on nouns is marked by nasal mutation
* v > w before a consonant
* no retroflexes from Cr clusters
* sr tsr zr nr > str str zdr ndr
* some speakers break up rC clusters with an epenthetic vowel
* nt > nd
* imperfect passive -stra
* no final glide excrescence after high vowels
* less diphthongization of high vowels

and then there are dialectal features, like as instead of std. aman for passivization in NPs (the only context where passivization really happens)

so:

Northern:
Endernennam ne etaru, nias "ian ne cetwcang neura" vec neuendrecang ian etteustra.
[ˈendɪɾɪnɪnːɐm ˈne ɪˈtaɾʊ ˈɲaθ ˈjan ˈne ˈsetʙ̥sɐŋ ˈnuɾa vɪs ˈnuwɪndɾɪsɐŋ ˈjan ɪˈtːuθtɾɐ]

Cerrais:
Enternennam ne etaru, ne omon "iaron ne cetwcong ḩatevra" vec ḩaftenrecong iaron ettefcra.
[ˈendɪɳɪʰn̥ɐm ˈnɪ‿jˈtaɾʊw nɪmn̩ jæːɳː nɪ tseɸtsŋ̩ hɐˈtevɾɐ vɪts hɐfˈteɳɪtsŋ̩ jæːɳː ɪˈʰteftʂɐ]

Standard:
Enternennam ne etaru, ne aman "iaran ne cetwcang ḩatevra" vec ḩavtenrecang iaran ettevcera.
[ˈendɪɳɪʰn̥ɐm ˈne ɪˈtaɾʊw, ˈne ɐmɐn ˈjæɾɐn ˈne ˈtsetʙ̥tsɐŋ hɐˈtevɾɐ vɪts hɐvˈdeɳɪtsɐŋ ˈjæɾɐn ɪʰˈtevdzɪɾɐ]

[2+3 clusivity]

Valiums' thing:

Consonants
/m n ŋ/ m n g
/p t k/ p t k
/s ʃ x/ s x h
/ts tʃ/ z c
/ʋ ɹ ɰ/ v r w
/ⱱ ɾ/ b d

Also, I'm really curious about your image. What is that? Any can you link what it is or a full copy?

phonology12.JPG (48.84 KiB) Viewed 5161 times

phonology11.JPG (32.98 KiB) Viewed 5161 times

[maıráí]

/m n ŋ/ m n g
/p t k/ p t k
/s ʃ x/ s x h
/ts tʃ/ z c
/ʋ ɹ ɰ/ v r w
/ⱱ ɾ/ b d

It's certainly more concise, but

/ ʃ / x

D: D: D: D: D: D:

Also, I'm really curious about your image. What is that? Any can you link what it is or a full copy?

It is a card from the Nusantara Tarot.
http://www.alchemywebsite.com/Tarot/sam ... antara.jpg

[Nortaneous]

/i y a ɶ ɯ o/ <i y a u e o>

[maıráí]

Kūh too kim nyyhūā me sīūkiotoona mah gia soi nyy mi. Gi gje mūīcuusagōprū jwyp pāū zyy sap xjo. Nyy xīī! Ciu wōī giuxuaree nye neek? Ki tua taisianwe kjoi sīāmoa. Nui ce zuk dih mēȳ rykiomuai. Nog xii gye tah pony ko. Tyy nīs tūā kao māpniokiag cey tȳ. Sēȳde tui mii cia tīī gosmōg. Tā kaa xou din koi ciu jek būūm. Daa ty xāh syy cigyytōī? Mwy seo pō mikey rēȳ ny nīō mīhwehyptap kōh hio reyn gemsoikōāmianio? Mou nii nee meo tūnoi noa. Naan won zoa moa ki mīō zah nwog zuu? Xog noo gou pā! Si hua mje xik xa tii. Cā nwi xim nai kennāī hȳȳme? Moa cyg we zat kii ko. Bīū naakīnnysūō togpēndi nak xe gi dwii rūā xāē xyysȳmnuo nao. Gīī gi son ny paa bog nāō paa? Noh noi hyt pe kin. Kȳ cet māī xāī ceo mai. Nyk xii xi xūī myyjainia pān. Dwy tui hāghwȳ to syt gee. Goo sȳp gy. Xȳē mem kee pia xȳȳ dōā? Nōā nio cai nia migmio jag syy! Mōt hi tuh nah tiupumig ci. Ga kiiku ze. Gēk su tōātui tōkmēȳ pē xo!

Actually, I like /ts/ z. I'm using that one. Thanks!