Post your conlang's phonology

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Yng
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Yng »

Chagen wrote:Since it's a tri-literal root lang, almost any combination of consonants are possible
does not follow

zagon: I love
zgonīs: you love
zgonēx: he/she/it loves

zazagno: we love
zazgnīs: you all love
zazgnēx: they love

zugūn: love (pl. ūzgūn)

zāgon: lover (pl. āzāgno)

zīgnaž: loved one (pl.zīgganž)

zuggen: bed (pl.ūzuggne)

nōzgin: whore (pl. nōzginý)
Hope you have diachronics justifying this. As it is it doesn't look so incredibly horrible that I'll dismiss the person paradigm offhand or anything, buuuut. Do you have a thread where I can probe this further
This lang is supposed to be the bizarre lovechild of Arabic and Russian though...it basically looks nothing like Russian but OH WELL
it also looks very little like Arabic except that e.g. the verbal noun pattern and active participle look like they were ripped off fuʿūl and Hebrew pāʿōl (or whatever, who knows how guttural roots work, I just know CāCōC is an active participle)
Also, unlike the Semitic langs vowels are important enough to be fully written out, as there is no apophony in nouns, only shifting of the vowels to form plurals (every plural in Vzodyet is a broken plural).
do you actually know anything about the Semitic languages? Also I don't even see how what you wrote follows: there is no internal inflectional morphology in nouns, only shifting of the vowels to form plurals (i.e. there is internal inflectional morphology - and on a similar level to e.g. Arabic, since we've also established there is non-concatenative derivational morphology too, and actually loads of it). I guess if you exclude the 'no apophony in nouns' bit it sort of makes sense that vowels are important enough to be fully written out, although I don't really see how this is an issue anyway since you're writing it in Latin script.
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية

tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!

short texts in Cuhbi

Risha Cuhbi grammar

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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by cromulant »

sangi39 wrote:Do they contrast with alveolar lateral affricates in any language, though? Of the ones you listed (although I haven't found a phoneme inventory for Kuman), they don't, so I'd assume at the very least that to contrast the two series is particularly rare in the real world.
No reason they couldn't though. It's not like they're not very easily distinguishable.

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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by gach »

sangi39 wrote:I haven't found a phoneme inventory for Kuman
Here you go. So only a qualitative distinction between two laterals, though there is quite some variation in the velar one.

I find that lateral velars are less strange than what they might first seem. Especially lateral velar affricates feel more natural to articulate than their non-lateral counterparts because of a clearer qualitative distinction between the stop and the fricative release. Still, thinking a bit about their origins helps a lot in creating a balanced system. The perfect symmetry in humanzinho's stop and affricate inventories is something I might not decide to do myself.

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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Nortaneous »

Hadza contrasts something that can be realized as either [kxʼ] or [kʟ̝̊ʼ] with a palatal lateral affricate series [cʎ̝̥], which includes an ejective.
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Imralu »

Arahuan is my new lang. It's spoken on an island in the South Pacific, but is a language isolate. I kind of wanted to go for the rhythm of languages with long and short vowels and consonants like Finnish and Japanese, but with a much more minimalist phonology.

Vowels:

There are three vowels.

Code: Select all

/i/   /u/

   /a/
Allophony:
/i/ = [i~ɪ~ɨ]
/u/ = [u~ʊ~ʉ]
/a/ = [ä~ɐ]

Each vowel is one mora long. Vowels may come together in any sequence, but only two vowels at a time. More than two vowels together are only found in loanwords, such as uaihai "WiFi", which is five morae long [ˈuaihai].

Consonants:

There are six phonemic consonants.

Code: Select all

/m/     /n/     /ŋ/  
        /t/     /k/     [ʔ]
[ʍː]                    /h/
        [ɾ]
Written as IPA, but ‹ŋ› can opionally be replaced with ‹g› if necessary.

All consonants can be single or geminate, although geminate /h/ is rare and seems to be falling out of the language. Geminates are possible word initially. Post-pausa, /tt/ and /kk/ are either pronounced as ejectives or similar to the faucalised consonants of Korean.

The gap where p would be expected probably results from a sound change from /*p/ to /h/, similar to Japanese. These seems likely for two reasons:
- Geminate /h/, where it occurs, is labialised, something like [ʍː~ɸː]. A lot of speakers are simply pronouncing it nowadays as a single /h/, but some are dropping the length down to a non-moraic consonant, potentially giving rise to a new phonemic distinction
- Sandhi rules when adding suffixes pair /t/ with /n/, /k/ with /ŋ/ and /h/ with /m/, although the latter is a weaker pairing, only working from /h/ to /m/ and not the other way.

/t/ and /n/ are dental, rather than alveolar.

The plosives /t/ and /k/ are unaspirated. /t/ is pronounced as [ɾ] when non-geminate and not immediately before a stressed vowel. This is indicated in the official orthography, which includes ‹r›. Reduplication and compounding can block this to some extent, resulting in words such as aaruara 'mountain' and tuarua 'baby' having alternative forms: aatuara and tuatua.

There is an underlying glottal stop at the beginning of verb-initial morphemes which is only triggered post-pausa or when three or more vowels come together. When this occurs within a word, it is spelled ‹q› in the official orthography. For example

kiqaa
[ki.ˈʔaː]
ki-aa
3s.DEF.INAN-world
"It's the world."

In uŋŋu utiunnuŋa ('some guy is talking to her'), the two /u/s are pronounced together as a long vowel [ˈʔuŋːuːˈtiunːuŋa], but in ŋua utiunnuŋa ('he is talking to her') a glottal stop appears at the beginning of the second word because otherwise, three vowels would occur together.

Phonotactics:
(C(ː))V(ː)

There are no closed syllables.

Stress:

Stress is on the first syllable of roots, even in loanwords. Prefixes are unstressed. After a prefix, non-initial stress is marked by underlining.

Example text:
Ituu naammauhitta mutta Kahu uuruka. Ŋutta kummika tiika haaha. Tta Taki atiu kummika tiiqakka. Ŋatuu mukka hahannaaru. Nitiunnuŋa niniŋu.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by WeepingElf »

Pretty. Nice small inventory; very evocative of the South Pacific.
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by cromulant »

WeepingElf wrote:Pretty. Nice small inventory; very evocative of the South Pacific.
Affirmed. I hope we get to see more of Arahuan.

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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Nortaneous »

there are some languages in that general area with word-initial geminate stops, you may want to look into how they're realized (i don't know)
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by äreo »

Niuatta:

/p t k n h r j w ə/
p t k n h r i u a

onsets: /p t k n h r j w np nt nk pp tt kk pr tr kr pj tj kj ppj ttj kkj prj trj krj nj hj rj kw prw trw krw nw hw rw/
nuclei: /j w ə(ː(ː))/
codas: /n h r j w/
stress is always on the first syllable

allophony depends on dialect:
np nt nk are prenasalized voiced [ⁿb ⁿd ⁿg] in Insular and Western; in Eastern, they are plain unvoiced [p t k] and nasalize the following vowel
pp tt kk are ejectives [pʼ tʼ kʼ] in Insular and aspirated [pʰ tʰ kʰ] in Western and Eastern
pr tr kr are [pʂ tʂ kʂ] in Insular, [pʃ tʃ kʃ] in Western, [pr̥ tr̥ kr̥] in Eastern
n before rounded vowels is [m] in Insular and Western and [ŋʷ] in Eastern
n is [ŋ] word-finally in Western and Eastern
h is [ʁ] in Insular, [χ] in Western, [h] in Eastern
r is [ʂ] finally and [ɻ] otherwise in Insular, [ʃ] in Western, [r] in Eastern
stressed /ə əː/ a aa are [a aː~aə] for pretty much everyone
unstressed /ə/ a is [ʌ] after /h/ and [ɛ] otherwise in Insular, [ə] in Western, [a] in Eastern
/jə wə əj əw jəː wəː əːj əːw əjə əwə j̩wə əjwə/ i u e o ie oe ai au ea oa iua eua are:
[i o ɛ ɒ iː oː ɛː ɒː ɨː ʉː yː øː] in Insular
[i u ɛ ɔ iə uə ɛj ɔw eə oə yə øə] in Western
[i u e o ja wa aj aw eː oː iwa ewa] in Eastern

Pruhu hi naroe u npaha nuha ntea ttie no hi kkeua.
/ˈprwəhwə hjə ˈnərwəː wə ˈnpəhə ˈnwəhə ˈntəjə ttjəː nəw hjə ˈkkəjwə/
Insular: [ˈpʂoʁo ʁi ˈnaɻoː o ˈⁿbaʁʌ ˈmoʁʌ ⁿdɨː tʼiː mɒ ʁi kʼøː]
Western: [ˈpχuχu χi ˈnaʃuə u ˈⁿbaχə ˈmuχə ⁿdeə tʰiə mɔ χi kʰøə]
Eastern: [ˈpr̥uhu hi ˈnarwa u ˈpãha ˈŋʷuha tẽː tʰja ŋʷo hi ˈkʰewa]
Last edited by äreo on Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ascima mresa óscsma sáca psta numar cemea.
Cemea tae neasc ctá ms co ísbas Ascima.
Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho.

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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Jess »

äreo wrote:Niuatta:

[snip]

Pruhu hi naroe u npaha nuha ntea ttie no hi kkeua.
/ˈprwəhwə hjə ˈnərwəː wə ˈnpəhə ˈnwəhə ˈntəjə ttjəː nəw hjə ˈkkəjwə/
Insular: [ˈpʂoʁo ʁi ˈnaɻoː o ˈⁿbaʁʌ ˈmoʁʌ ⁿdɨː tʼiː mɒ ʁi kʼøː]
Eastern: [ˈpχuχu χi ˈnaʃuə u ˈⁿbaχə ˈmuχə ⁿdeə tʰiə mɔ χi kʰøə]
Western: [ˈpr̥uhu hi ˈnarwa u ˈpãha ˈŋʷuha tẽː tʰja ŋʷo hi ˈkʰewa]
Interesting! But I think this is more plausible as a proto-lang and three daughters rather than three phonetic realizations of the same sequence of phonemes. Maybe that's how you meant it? But if that were the case I would have expected them to diverge more in grammar that your samples seem to imply. Anyway I do think the sound changes and reflexes are cool. Schwa as the only true vowel in the protolang/underlying phonology is um... questionable... but I suspect you are quite aware of this already.
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Hallow XIII »

Núxalk gets away with this but that is because to the best of our knowledge basically everything is a valid syllable nucleus in it so analyzing things as syllabic glides is hard to argue with.
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äreo
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by äreo »

Jess wrote:
äreo wrote:Niuatta:

[snip]

Pruhu hi naroe u npaha nuha ntea ttie no hi kkeua.
/ˈprwəhwə hjə ˈnərwəː wə ˈnpəhə ˈnwəhə ˈntəjə ttjəː nəw hjə ˈkkəjwə/
Insular: [ˈpʂoʁo ʁi ˈnaɻoː o ˈⁿbaʁʌ ˈmoʁʌ ⁿdɨː tʼiː mɒ ʁi kʼøː]
Eastern: [ˈpχuχu χi ˈnaʃuə u ˈⁿbaχə ˈmuχə ⁿdeə tʰiə mɔ χi kʰøə]
Western: [ˈpr̥uhu hi ˈnarwa u ˈpãha ˈŋʷuha tẽː tʰja ŋʷo hi ˈkʰewa]
Interesting! But I think this is more plausible as a proto-lang and three daughters rather than three phonetic realizations of the same sequence of phonemes. Maybe that's how you meant it? But if that were the case I would have expected them to diverge more in grammar that your samples seem to imply. Anyway I do think the sound changes and reflexes are cool. Schwa as the only true vowel in the protolang/underlying phonology is um... questionable... but I suspect you are quite aware of this already.
Yeah, Niuatta's a dialect continuum more than a singular language, and the grammatical differences are significant in less formal registers. The sentence is in a standard form for writing and public speaking.

Started from a 9-phoneme challenge, so diachronics are still being worked out.

Ascima mresa óscsma sáca psta numar cemea.
Cemea tae neasc ctá ms co ísbas Ascima.
Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho.

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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Bristel »

"Novemberlang" (also from the 9 phoneme conlang thread)

/p t k/ <p t k>
/n/ <n>
/h/ <h>
/ʁ/ <r> or syllabic <ŕ>
/j w/ <y w>
/ə/ [ə i u a] <e i u a>

Vowel /ə/ “assimilates” to a previous consonant, becoming /i/ when following a glide /j/ and /u/ when following glide /w/ or /k/. It also becomes /a/ when following /ʁ/.
/ʁ/ can be a syllabic nucleus.

onset: C(r,y,w)
nucleus: /ə/ which surfaces as other vowels.
coda: (C) except /h j w/

Pranerawuntranet he ekura, he enene, kyihen tetewukunen tŕk.
/pʁənəʁəwətʁənət hə əkəʁə | hə ənənə | kjihən tətəwəkənən tʁ̩k/
[pʁanəʁawutʁanət hə əkuʁa | hə ənənə | kjihən tətəwukunən tʁ̩k]
Be well prepared o men, o mothers, a war is coming on the horizon.
[bɹ̠ˤʷɪs.təɫ]
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Nortaneous »

well, shit, if that's what we're doing

/p t k/
/n h ʁ/
/j w/
/ə/

/p t k/ are [b l ŋ] <b l g> intervocalically and [p t k] <p t k> everywhere else. They can appear geminated intervocalically, in which case they don't lenite.
/n/ is [n]. /np nt nk/ are [m nd ŋg] <m nd ng>.
/h/ can appear only once in a word, only in the onset, and can only follow a consonant if it is in the first or second syllable. /th/ is [ts] <ts>.
/j w ʁ/ are written <y w r>. Along with /n/, these form the resonant class, and can appear syllabically: /n/ is always realized as [m~n~ŋ] <m~n~n> (depending on the following consonant) when syllabic, but syllabic /j w ʁ/ are <i u a>.
/ə/ is the only vowel. Followed by /j w ʁ/ in the same syllable, it becomes [e o ʌ] <e o er>
/tj t:j nj/ before a vowel or word-finally are realized [s tʃ ɲ] and written <s ch ñ>.

Nəbich, hutəgətn phir utsə chəngaləmi, omi yəkəribi həken wegəsin, omi kampətaybi tsandabi ñətəbi...
[nəbitʃ, hutːəŋətːn̩ pʰiʁ utsə tʃəŋgaləmi, omi jəkːəʁibi həkːen weŋəsin, omi kampːətːajbi tsandabi ɲətəbi]
/nəpjttj hwttəkəttn phjr wthə tjənkʁtənpj, əwnpj jəkkəʁjbj həkkəjn wəjkətjn, əwnpj kʁmppətʁjpj thʁntʁpj njəttpj/
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Imralu »

Weirdly enough, my conlang that I just posted before all the 9-phoneme-thread languages also has 9 phonemes. Page 72 of this thread contains only 9-phoneme phonologies. Maybe minimalist is the new kitchen-sink?

I'd like to see someone develop a language without a phonemic distinction between vowels and consonants, where every phoneme has a vowel allophone and a consonant allophone. If the phonetic syllable structure were strictly (C)V(CV(CV(CV(CV)))), then adding a one-phoneme suffix would force the entire chain of sounds to swap realisations. Eg. /jwrj/ = [juri] + -w = /jwrjw/ [iwaju].

Nortaneous wrote:there are some languages in that general area with word-initial geminate stops, you may want to look into how they're realized (i don't know)
It seems to be just about impossible to find anything out about their realisation. I've found a phonetic few transcriptions of words like [b:uri], which seems to indicate that they are simply pronounced for longer. With any non-plosive phoneme, I find this easy to believe. With stops, I find this easy to believe that geminates are distinguished in connected speech, post-pausa less so. Actually, I have no problem believing it with voiced plosives as it's possible to begin the voicing a longer time before the release to mark geminates, but there isn't really an equivalent method available for voiceless plosives like /t/ and /k/. Perhaps the analogous change would be to keep the voicelessness going for longer, basically resulting in aspirated consonants.

My justification for ejectives is kind of tenuous: in Korean, the faucalised consonants are written as double consonants, and when they appear between vowels within a word, they are simply pronounced as geminates*. This means you could analyse them as geminates that are realised as faucalised consonants word initially and after consonants. Back when I found the faucalised consonants difficult (before I realised that you basically just shout the syllable they begin and Koreans tell you you're pronouncing it perfectly), I used to pronounce them as ejectives. One of my Korean students told me that was easier to understand than not pronouncing them any differently from the unaspirated series.

At least I know that both can come from consonant clusters ... so ...
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*At least this is how Koreans have always explained it to me, but I can't confirm that with anything I've read.
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by finlay »

I don't know Korean well enough, but that sounds like they're being influenced by the orthography.

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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Hallow XIII »

The faucalized stops are apparently basically like the Chinese voiceless ones ("you are pronouncing all the consonants as double, you European dolt!") and whatever the other differences, more saliently single ones also have low pitch on the following vowel.
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by clawgrip »

I'm trying to revamp a dumb language I made many years ago, while still being able to retain various words (particularly place names) more or less intact, so I am retaining some things that I would otherwise remove, like the palatal affricates.

Consonants

Code: Select all

lab     
      lab     dnt/alv pal     vel     uvl     glt
nasal m       n               ŋ
lab   pʷ      tʷ              kʷ      qʷ       
plain p       t       ʧ       k       q       ʔ
voc           d       ʤ      ɡ
fric  f~b     s~z                     χ~ɣ~ɢ   h~ɦ
apprx w       l       j
rhot          r
Vowels

Code: Select all

            front  centr  back
close oral  i             u
mid         e      ə      o
      nasal ɛ̃             ɔ̃
open               ã   ~  ɑ̃
      oral         a
Fricatives are voiced when next to voiced consonants.
I think the syllable structure will be something like (F)(C)V(r/F)(Cx)(Cx) where the final syllable can be geminated word-medially, allowing for words like /tarqqhu/.

Are there any glaring problems here?

This is the language I eventually intend to apply the wildly unsuited Naduta script to, somehow. I'm hoping it will create a terrible mess of a writing system.

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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Quantum »

If I ever manage to stop procrastinating, here's the tentative inventory of Gąikuhwo.

So...
Clicks?

Stops: /t tʷ tʰ tʷʰ k kʷ kʰ kʷʰ kp kpʷ kpʰ kpʷʰ/ <d~tt dw~ttw t tw g~kk gw~kkw k kw b bw p pw>
Clicks: /ǀ ǀʷ ! !ʷ ǁ ǁʷ/ <c cw q qw x xw>
Clicks (contour):ʔ ǀʷʔ !ʔʔ ǁʔ ǁʷʔ/ <c' cw' q' qw' x' xw'>
Fricatives: /s sʷ sʰ sʷʰ ɬ ɬʷ x xʷ/ <z~ss zw~ssw s sw l lw h hw>
Ejectives: /t' tʷ' kx' kxʷ' s' sʷ'/ <t' tw' k' kw' s' sw'>

...or no clicks?

Stops: /p pʷ pʰ pʷʰ t tʷ tʰ tʷʰ k kʷ kʰ kʷʰ/ <b bw p pw d~tt dw~ttw t tw g~kk gw~kkw k kw>
Fricatives: /s sʷ sʰ sʷʰ ɬ ɬʷ x xʷ/ <z~ss zw~ssw s sw l lw h hw>
Ejectives: /t' tʷ' kx' kxʷ' s' sʷ'/ <t' tw' k' kw' s' sw'>

Notes:
1. With regards to members separated by a tilde; those to the left are used word initially and medially, those to the right, word finally.
2. Most consonants are vocalized between vowels, however /ɬ ɬʷ x xʷ/ are realized as the approximants [l lʷ ɰ w]


Monophthongs:

High: /ɪ iː ɛ̰ ɨ ɨː ɘ̰ ʊ uː ɔ̰/ <ı ī i e ē ė u ū u̇>
Mid: /ə əː ə̰ ə̃ ə̃ː ə̰̃/ <o ō ȯ ǫ ǭ ǫ̇>
Low: /ɐ ɐː ɐ̰ ɐ̃ ɐ̃ː ɐ̰̃/ <a ā ȧ ą ą̄ ą̇>

Diphthongs:

Fronting: /ɨɪ̯ ɨ̰ɪ̯ əɪ̯ ə̰ɪ̯ ə̃ɪ̯ ə̰̃ɪ̯ ɐɪ̯ ɐ̃ɪ̯ ɐ̰ɪ̯ ɐ̰̃ɪ̯/ <eı ei oı ǫı oi ǫi aı ąı ai ąi>
Backing: /ɨʊ̯ ɨ̰ʊ̯ əʊ̯ ə̰ʊ̯ ə̃ʊ̯ ə̰̃ʊ̯ ɐʊ̯ ɐ̃ʊ̯ ɐ̰ʊ̯ ɐ̰̃ʊ̯/ <eu eu̇ ou ǫu ou̇ ǫu̇ au ąu au̇ ąu̇>

When surrounding a consonant, nasal and creaky vowels cause non-aspirate, non-ejected obstruents to nasalize and/or become creaky, respectively. If the previous nucleus is nasal but the current is oral, the consonant is pre-nasalized. However, if the previous nucleus is oral but the current nasal the consonant is pre-stopped/post-nasalized.

stolen from Kaingang

Phonotactics:

parenthesis indicates an optional variable

Syllable: CV(C)

Any consonant may occupy any position. Any vowel may occur as V.

Root: (CV(C))CV(C)

Clicks and the labio-velars /kp kpʷ kpʰ kpʷʰ/ would only be found root-initially or root-finally.

Affixes: (C)V(C)(V)

Clicks and labio-velars would not occur in this structure.

No stress, tone, or other prosodic features as of yet. If I missed anything crucial, please let me know.
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Pogostick Man »

Clicks, creaky voice, and ogoneks. That rocks.
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by WeepingElf »

clawgrip wrote:Are there any glaring problems here?
Not very glaring, but labialization behaves oddly. In natlangs, it behaves as an extra place rather than a manner of articulation.
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by clawgrip »

Any suggestions on what I might change the labialization to if you think that's weird? I don't mind changing this.

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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Herr Dunkel »

I don't think the labialisation's bad, but an alternative could be palatalisation (and yes, co-articulated /kp/ can also have palatalisation though it's just the tiniest bit difficult)
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by R.Rusanov »

Palatalization is so eurocentric. Telling a man to change labialization for it is like telling him to drop a natural past tense for a synthetic one.
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Re: Post your conlang's phonology

Post by Nortaneous »

rusanov you aren't funny

anyway i guess you could have ejectives -> pharyngealized stops as may or may not have happened in some branches of afro-asiatic, and then pharyngealization -> labialization... but it's not that likely. if you need another series, aspirate or ejective
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