ConlangDictionary 0.3 - now phonology parsing is faster

Risla · Post by **Risla** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:27 pm

Two problems I've found:

1) It won't recognize multigraphs if the characters in the digraph are already used as monographs. I have a phoneme [tK] that is transcribed as <tl>, along with /t l/ (as <t l>), and when I input a word that has /tK/ in it, it shows it as being /tl/.

2) For some reason it refuses to store the type of the word beyond the first one; I entered a type for most of the words I entered and saved, but upon loading it again, the only word with a type is <alalóua>, the first word.

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:45 pm

EI:

1) I seem to not have put this anywhere where anyone is likely to look (doh) but this is the whole reason you can rearrange the order of the phonemes; it will compare their spellings in the order they appear in the list. Thus, if you want <tl> to be interpreted as /K/ by default, move /K/ so that it comes before /t/ in the list on the phonemes tab.

2) Most of the fields will automatically be saved as you type them in, but with Type and Subtype (and the names of phonemes and spellings of words) you actually have to click the "Change" button in order for it to take. This is because (in the case of names/spellings) it has to update the GUI, or (in the case of type/subtype) it flips out trying to recalculate what should be in the combo boxes every time you add another letter.

Risla · Post by **Risla** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:39 pm

I did click the "change" button, but it didn't save it anyway.

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:42 pm

If you click on another word, and then back to the first, does the type show up again, or is this just something that happens when you save and reload? Are you running Windows, or Linux? Can I see how it wrote the savefile?

Risla · Post by **Risla** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:47 pm

I'm running Windows right now, I'm going to boot into Linux in a couple of minutes to see if it works there. Right now I was trying, and clicking "change" actually deletes the type I entered. Clicking on another word and back to the first deletes the text too.

The text in the tantapi.cdic file is this:

Code: Select all

ts'  ts'  

tS'  ch'  

tK'  tl'  

p'  p'  

t'  t'  

k'  k'  

q'  q'  

ts  ts  

tS  ch  

tK  tl  

p  p  

t  t  

k  k  

q  q  

m  m  

n  n  

s  s  

S  x  

h  h  

w  v u  

j  y  

r  r  

l  l  

a  a á  

e  e é  

i  i í  

o  o ó eu éu  



alalóua[a l a l o w a](noun...)moon goddess

ananaqéutsi[a n a n a q e w ts i](...)humanity

atlatse[a tK a ts e](...)sun goddess

chime[tS i m e](...)chalk

ispilti[i s p i l t i](...)silly

méta[m e t a](...)spirit

móche[m o tS e](...)brown

nán[n a n](...)person, human being

ouskas[o w s k a s](...)gray

pala[p a l a](...)white

raspál[r a s p a l](...)sharp

satli[s a tK i](...)sweet

sepre[s e p r e](...)snake

síkouri[s i k o w r i](...)music

soumi[s o w m i](...)fish

vaka[w a k a](...)man

vela[w e l a](...)woman

yaumatl[j a w m a tK](...)lizard

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:00 pm

Odd - it all seems to work for me, even in Windows. You are clicking the "Change Type/Subtype" button and not the "Change" button next to the spelling, right?

Edit: Also, your /o/ phoneme should probably be listed above /e/, or else <eu> and <éu> will be interpreted as /ew/, same as the whole /tl/ versus /K/ before before.

Risla · Post by **Risla** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:15 pm

Yeah, I posted it while I was changing it.

That is what I was clicking on before, but for some reason it's started working now. I think it just wanted to make it/me look dumb, rrr. Anyway, thanks.

FSI · Post by **FSI** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:13 pm

This piece of software is indeed very handy, thank you!

I downloaded everything and all installed neatly. Apparently everything works just fine, but the Load/Save buttons. It wouldn't do anything when I click the buttons. Now, without these two magical functions the program is mostly useless.

Hjalp meg ?

Cheers

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:14 pm

In order for the save button to work, you have to type a filename into the box next to it (or select something from the list, but the list only comes up if there is a .cdic file in the current directory). The load button only works if there is a file to load in the current directory.

FSI · Post by **FSI** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:06 pm

faiuwle wrote:In order for the save button to work, you have to type a filename into the box next to it (or select something from the list, but the list only comes up if there is a .cdic file in the current directory). The load button only works if there is a file to load in the current directory.

oh yes, it works now!

thanks a bunch!

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:37 pm

So, this is an example of what suprasegmental creation will look like:

Hopefully, that is a lot less blurry on your screen that it is on mine; linux seems to have issues with displaying images on the forum.

The "spelling" part is where you specify how the presence of the suprasegmental is indicated via spelling - in this example, stressed vowels have acute accents over them, and long phonemes are doubled. The "phonemic representation" part is how the suprasegmental will be shown in the "phonology" under the word. In this case we're using XSAMPA notation. Clicking the "edit phonemes" button pops up a dialog where you can check off the phonemes (that you entered on the phonemes tab) that you want the suprasegmental to apply to.

It isn't done yet, though, because making this work is a royal pain in the ass. Another of those things that's simple for humans to figure out, but not so much for computers.

zelos · Post by **zelos** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:11 pm

ive found another error

when i changed a word from starting on F to starting on R it didnt change position to be among those that started with R, but also the next time i added something with Rs in the start it got stuck where that word were now and started collecting there isntead

TaylorS · Post by **TaylorS** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:38 pm

Excellent program so far!

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:48 pm

Zelos wrote:ive found another error

when i changed a word from starting on F to starting on R it didnt change position to be among those that started with R, but also the next time i added something with Rs in the start it got stuck where that word were now and started collecting there isntead

Yeah, I noticed that too; it'll get fixed. If it really annoys you, for now you can fix it by opening the savefile in a text editor and rearranging the word entries into alphabetical order.

Risla · Post by **Risla** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:26 pm

faiuwle wrote:So, this is an example of what suprasegmental creation will look like:

-snip-

I am anticipating this rather eagerly.

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:13 pm

Decision time!

So I have the suprasegmentals tab done (finally), plus some other stuff, and bugfixes and whatnot, and I basically just have to write the code to save and load the new file format (which will not take long). However, since the program only encodes words as a string of phonemes at this point, said suprasegmentals are not actually suprasegmental, and only apply to one phoneme. Ideally, the program would know about syllables and be able to apply some suprasegmentals to syllables (e.g. stress/tone/pitch) and others to individual phonemes (e.g. length). I don't think doing this will be hard per se, and I definitely intend to do it eventually, but it's going to be a lot of annoying interface crap, and there will have to be a new tab, and "Edit Phonology" dialog will have to be taken apart and put back together again, and the word-representation class will become yet more bloated, and in short lots of stuff will have to be broken and rewritten, and it will take a while.

Meanwhile, I do have this program that actually works - save that you can't edit suprasegmentals with the "Edit Phonology" dialog (because it's just going to have to be rewritten again) and also if you, say, add the "stress" suprasegmental shown in my last post, it's represented in the phonemic transcription with the " before the vowel, and not before the syllable - e.g. /f"atSia/ and not /"fatSia/.

So, I can write the save/load functions for the new version, package it up and upload it either tonight or tomorrow, or I can start rewriting things to make it syllable-compliant and update it whenever I get done with that. Which would you guys prefer?

zelos · Post by **zelos** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:51 am

faiuwle wrote:Decision time!

So I have the suprasegmentals tab done (finally), plus some other stuff, and bugfixes and whatnot, and I basically just have to write the code to save and load the new file format (which will not take long). However, since the program only encodes words as a string of phonemes at this point, said suprasegmentals are not actually suprasegmental, and only apply to one phoneme. Ideally, the program would know about syllables and be able to apply some suprasegmentals to syllables (e.g. stress/tone/pitch) and others to individual phonemes (e.g. length). I don't think doing this will be hard per se, and I definitely intend to do it eventually, but it's going to be a lot of annoying interface crap, and there will have to be a new tab, and "Edit Phonology" dialog will have to be taken apart and put back together again, and the word-representation class will become yet more bloated, and in short lots of stuff will have to be broken and rewritten, and it will take a while.

Meanwhile, I do have this program that actually works - save that you can't edit suprasegmentals with the "Edit Phonology" dialog (because it's just going to have to be rewritten again) and also if you, say, add the "stress" suprasegmental shown in my last post, it's represented in the phonemic transcription with the " before the vowel, and not before the syllable - e.g. /f"atSia/ and not /"fatSia/.

So, I can write the save/load functions for the new version, package it up and upload it either tonight or tomorrow, or I can start rewriting things to make it syllable-compliant and update it whenever I get done with that. Which would you guys prefer?

i say fix it so we can see quickly and then fix up the new stuff

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:32 am

Actually, on reflection I think I'd rather get the syllable representation working first. I've got a lot of free time today to work on it.

zelos · Post by **zelos** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:33 am

faiuwle wrote:Actually, on reflection I think I'd rather get the syllable representation working first. I've got a lot of free time today to work on it.

sounds good to me D: you should get IM!

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:43 am

I'm not social enough for IM.

zelos · Post by **zelos** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:39 am

faiuwle wrote:I'm not social enough for IM.

unaccaptable =P do it anyway

ketske · Post by **ketske** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:32 pm

My breath is bated.

roninbodhisattva · Post by **roninbodhisattva** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:51 am

I'd like to try using this application on Mac OS X, but I'm a little confused on how to compile it using QT...I have no knowledge about any of this stuff. I've downloaded QT for mac and the source code, but am having trouble figuring it out. Any help?

Tengado · Post by **Tengado** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:11 am

roninbodhisattva wrote:I'd like to try using this application on Mac OS X, but I'm a little confused on how to compile it using QT...I have no knowledge about any of this stuff. I've downloaded QT for mac and the source code, but am having trouble figuring it out. Any help?

I have a mac too, but even less knowledge than you about this sort of thing, but I hope you get it working! I'd help if I could...

julianallees · Post by **julianallees** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:14 am

OH MY GOD faiuwle,

This would by far have to be the most best idea I have ever seen printed on the zompist forum. I cannot believe that I didn't think of even mentioning such a program, and the fact that you are creating it yourself is amazing. Are you going to include a sound button in your dictionary program in which you can hear a 'native' say the word ... correctly; because that would be amazing.

Anyway, well done, I cannot believe how brilliant your idea is, well done again.

Yours truly,

julianallees