How to design a non-European phonology

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Zju
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Zju »

Testing Zinazizak‧pqna:

+1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
-2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
+3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)
-4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
-5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
+6. Nasals at multiple POAs
+7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
-8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions]
-9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
-10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops]
~11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
-12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
+13. No lateral obstruents
-14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA]
+15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
-16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
+17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
+18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
~19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
~20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
-21. Three or more diphthongs
+22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
-23. One front rounded vowel.
-24. Two or more front rounded vowels
+25. No vowel harmony
+26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
-27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees]
+28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
~29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]
+30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
-31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
+32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
+34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
+35. CVCC syllables allowed
-36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
-37. CLV syllables allowed
+38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
+39. CCCV syllables allowed
-40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
-41. CCNV syllables not allowed
-42. SNV syllables not allowed
-43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants)
+44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
+45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
-46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
+47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
+48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
+49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
+50. No more than two series of fricatives
-51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
+52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
+53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
~54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
~55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
+S1. No initial velar nasal
+S2. No tone system with more than two tones
+S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
+S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
~S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
+S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
-S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
+S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
+S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

66.5% - a quite high number, but this is only phonology. Still it's a bit surprising that a language without phonemic (or phonetic for that matter) voicing contrast scores that high.

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vec
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by vec »

In descending order of Non-Europeanness:

Uscaniv
absence of phonemic opposition velar/uvular (applies)
phonemic voicing oppositions (/p/ vs. /b/ etc.) as the only distinctions between sounds with the same POA and MOA (no voicing contrast)
initial consonant clusters of the type "stop+sonorant" allowed (applies)
no initial velar nasal (no phonemic velar nasal at all, applies)
a wide variety of allowable clusters that, except for those that contain a sibilant and a stop, all adhere to the sonority hierarchy (applies, mostly)
only pulmonic consonants (applies)
no phonation or secondary articulation contrasts on vowels (applies)
at least three degrees of vowel height (minimum inventory i e a o u) (missing o, but applies otherwise)
lack of lateral fricatives and affricates (has lateral affricate)
two series of coronals (only in fricatives, ś)
lack of a tone or register system (applies)
at least two of each of the following type of consonant: fricative, nasal, liquid, semivowel (applies until the semivowels, only /j/, no /w/)

Imuthan
absence of phonemic opposition velar/uvular (applies)
phonemic voicing oppositions (/p/ vs. /b/ etc.) as the only distinctions between sounds with the same POA and MOA (applies)
initial consonant clusters of the type "stop+sonorant" allowed (applies)
no initial velar nasal (doesn't apply, has initial velar nasal)
a wide variety of allowable clusters that, except for those that contain a sibilant and a stop, all adhere to the sonority hierarchy (some weird ones like /ld Lg/ and more)
only pulmonic consonants (applies)
no phonation or secondary articulation contrasts on vowels (applies)
at least three degrees of vowel height (minimum inventory i e a o u) (four degrees of height)
lack of lateral fricatives and affricates (phonemic, yes)
two series of coronals (only one)
lack of a tone or register system (applies)
at least two of each of the following type of consonant: fricative, nasal, liquid, semivowel (applies)

Kiassan turasta
absence of phonemic opposition velar/uvular (applies)
phonemic voicing oppositions (/p/ vs. /b/ etc.) as the only distinctions between sounds with the same POA and MOA (applies)
initial consonant clusters of the type "stop+sonorant" allowed (only /st/)
no initial velar nasal (no velar nasal at all)
a wide variety of allowable clusters that, except for those that contain a sibilant and a stop, all adhere to the sonority hierarchy (doesn't apply, no clusters save /st/)
only pulmonic consonants (applies)
no phonation or secondary articulation contrasts on vowels (applies)
at least three degrees of vowel height (minimum inventory i e a o u) (applies)
lack of lateral fricatives and affricates (applies)
two series of coronals (doesn't apply)
lack of a tone or register system (applies)
at least two of each of the following type of consonant: fricative, nasal, liquid, semivowel (doesn't apply)

Kìn-saŋ
absence of phonemic opposition velar/uvular (applies)
phonemic voicing oppositions (/p/ vs. /b/ etc.) as the only distinctions between sounds with the same POA and MOA (doesn't apply, only has ejective-unvoiced contrast in intitial syllables, no contrast in intervocalic syllables)
initial consonant clusters of the type "stop+sonorant" allowed (doesn't apply, no clusters)
no initial velar nasal (doesn't apply, allowed)
a wide variety of allowable clusters that, except for those that contain a sibilant and a stop, all adhere to the sonority hierarchy (doesn't apply, no clusters)
only pulmonic consonants (doesn't apply, ejective stops and one ejective fricative)
no phonation or secondary articulation contrasts on vowels (applies)
three degrees of vowel height (minimum inventory i e a o u) (doesn't apply, only four vowel phonemes i, e, o, a, and they behave strangely)
lack of lateral fricatives and affricates (applies)
two series of coronals (applies in sibilants)
lack of a tone or register system (doesn't apply, three pitch tones)
at least two of each of the following type of consonant: fricative, nasal, liquid, semivowel (applies)
vec

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by CatDoom »

Ooh, this looks like fun!

Riktas Rammay

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] (assuming /ʔ/ counts)
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series) (Riktas has a series of ejective stops and affricates)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps) (/ʔ/ kind of throws this off; the voiceless plosive and fricative MOAs come close [assuming you count /h/ as a glottal fricative], but Riktas has no velar fricatives)
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] (mostly because /j/ is the only palatal)
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions]
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number] (/k/ but no /x/)
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops] (assuming affricates are considered non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] (there are only three, /a, i, u/)
21. Three or more diphthongs (none, though sequences of vowels and approximants at syllable boundaries may sometimes sound like diphthongs)
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees]
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress] (typically fixed penultimate stress)
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed (though word-initial /ʔ/ may not always be apparent)
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] (little unsure about this one, as Riktas phonotactics don't allow CVCCF, either)
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants) (no syllabic consonants)
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates] (/p, t, ʈ, k, ʔ/)
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) (initial /ŋ/)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries (phonemic gemination at syllable boundaries in stems and particles)
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] (words never end in nasal consonants or any of /t, ʈ, ʔ, h/, and the majority end in open syllables)
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA (Riktas has 8 alveolar consonant phonemes, not including alveolar allophones of the apical postalveolar stops /ʈ, ɖ, ʈ'/)

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal] (6 fricatives, 4-5 phonemic affricates, 2 approximants, 2 liquids)

Total: 53.5% SAE

Seems about right; my inspirations for Riktas Rammay are mostly native Californian languages, and if I'm counting correctly Kashaya Pomo falls at about 54.5%. For comparison, Mutsun (a Costanoan language that lacks Kashaya Pomo's rich inventory of glottalized and aspirated consonants) is actually about 60% SAE.

Bristel
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Bristel »

Proto-Uralic-esque Conlang

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions]
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops]
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] (do /ɕ tɕ/ count?)
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees]
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants) (no syllabic consonants)
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) (initial /ŋ/)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries (phonemic gemination in roots, and morphemes)
50. No more than two series of fricatives (seriously, can't find a definition of "series" anywhere, so I'm confused, please explain OP or wise person :P )
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony (half if I have 8 vowels AND vowel harmony?)
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] (possibly)
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

60.5%SAE

I kinda figured this, because Uralic is a little bit like Indo-European, yet somewhat different. Maybe more points should be given to distinguish languages with vowel harmony? :P This language would definitely differ from SAE in terms of morphology/grammar, as it is agglutinative.
[bɹ̠ˤʷɪs.təɫ]
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Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró

CatDoom
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by CatDoom »

Bristel wrote:60.5%SAE

I kinda figured this, because Uralic is a little bit like Indo-European, yet somewhat different. Maybe more points should be given to distinguish languages with vowel harmony? :P This language would definitely differ from SAE in terms of morphology/grammar, as it is agglutinative.


Honestly, I think 60% is probably pretty non-European... I tried to answer these questions for Tlingit (pronounced [ɬɪŋkɪ́tʰ] or [ɬɪnkɪ́tʰ], with high tone on the second syllable, in case you were wondering :P), and even that scored somewhere around 50%.

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Nortaneous
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Nortaneous »

Pembrish should come out European:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions]
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops]
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] (do /ɕ tɕ/ count?)
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs

22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels

25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]

27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees]
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed

36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed

43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants)
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)

49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives

51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony (if you count diphthongs, which, well, it's Germanic)
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA


The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]

S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]


Pembrish is 92.5% SAE, as it ought to be given that it's Anglo-Frisian.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.

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Ser
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Ser »

CatDoom wrote:Honestly, I think 60% is probably pretty non-European... I tried to answer these questions for Tlingit (pronounced [ɬɪŋkɪ́tʰ] or [ɬɪnkɪ́tʰ], with high tone on the second syllable, in case you were wondering :P), and even that scored somewhere around 50%.
Yes, just look at the various natlang results that have been posted:
Serafin wrote:I got the following results:
Salvadoran Spanish: 72-78%
Parisian French: 86.5-88.5%
Quebec City French: 82-87.5%
PRC Standard Mandarin: 45.5-51.5%
HK Cantonese: 57-61.5%

Results of other natlangs that have been posted in this thread:
English (Salmoneus): 93%
Swedish (Chuma): 85%
Proto-Indo-European (cedh): 69%
Mandarin: (Ollock): 62%
Ojibwe (Risla): 64%
Haida (Tropylium): 30%
I'd say 75% or more is pretty much European, and less than 65% is certainly not European.

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Nortaneous »

hm let's try danish

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions]
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops]
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] (half mark if exactly 15 counts)
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA]

15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] (do /ɕ tɕ/ count?)

18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing (stød!)
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]

21. Three or more diphthongs (diphthongs are better analyzed as VC clusters)
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony

26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] (stød!)
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees]
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed

36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] (guessing)
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed

40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed

43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants)
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel] (dunno, this might be just half a point, are there any particles with syllabic consonants?)
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)

49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony

52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] (front rounded vowels are only fully distinguished before nasals)
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA (p b f ʋ m = t d s l n)

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]

S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

65%. Danish is about as phonologically European as Ojibwe.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Matrix »

Let's see where Old Zarcosian lies on here.

m n ŋ
p t k q
s z ɕ
ɸ f v θ ð x ɣ χ ʁ ħ ʕ
(w j)
ɬ ɮ
l

i u
e o
a
uʁː
oʁː
aʁː

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives (only on fricatives)
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives (also has voicing on velar, uvular, and pharyngeal)
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays (lateral fricative and lateral approximant both only have alveolar...)
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] (counting sibilant fricative as seperate from non-sibilant fricative)
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops (4 of these lol)
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] (no rhotics)
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] (a whopping 8)
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs (so many diphthongs with allophonic [w, j])
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants) (VIOLATORS OF THE SONORITY HIERARCHY WILL BE PROSECUTED)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Old Zarcosian has a
71.5%
SAE phonology.

Yeah, it's all the fricatives.
Image

Adúljôžal ônal kol ví éža únah kex yaxlr gmlĥ hôga jô ônal kru ansu frú.
Ansu frú ônal savel zaš gmlĥ a vek Adúljôžal vé jaga čaþ kex.
Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh.

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Nortaneous
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Nortaneous »

Wait, wait, why are people still using the old test, I [completely forgot that I] revised it, use this one instead

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Bristel »

If someone would explain "series", because I just winged it every time I saw that term. Searching on the web hasn't been fruitful for a proper definition.
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by finlay »

set of phonemes in one poa or moa, voicing configuration etc. like a row or a column on a phoneme table.. i think nort has changed it so it's less ambiguous and confusing.

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Particles the Greek »

finlay wrote:set of phonemes in one poa or moa, voicing configuration etc. like a row or a column on a phoneme table.. i think nort has changed it so it's less ambiguous and confusing.
It's common for older texts to use "order" for consonants at the same place of articulation and "series" for those with the same manner, thus the "voiced series" and the "palatal order", for what that's worth.
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by prettydragoon »

Nortaneous wrote:Wait, wait, why are people still using the old test, I [completely forgot that I] revised it, use this one instead
Well then. Let's see how Rireinutire fares now.
As a reminder, Rireinutire has a fairly restricted phonology: /p t k Ɂ m n ŋ v s h ɹ j ɑ i u e o/ (C)V(Ɂ)

True - green
Half-true - blue
False - red

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] H
2. Phonemic voicing F
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives F
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives F
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays F
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined T
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] T
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops T
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number] F
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) T
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] F
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] F
13. No lateral obstruents T
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one] T
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] T
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs T
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation] T
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing T
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] T
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] H
21. Three or more diphthongs F
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels] T
23. One front rounded vowel F
24. Two or more front rounded vowels F
25. No vowel harmony T
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] T
27. More than three degrees of vowel height F
28. Phonemic stress F
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages] T
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed T
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic) F
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal) F
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative) F
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop) T
35. CVCC syllables allowed F
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed] F
37. CLV syllables allowed F
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA] F
39. CCCV syllables allowed F
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) F
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed F
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed F
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants) F
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both] F
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes F
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever] F
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates] T
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) F
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries T
50. No more than two series of fricatives T
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony F
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all F
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] F
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables T
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA T

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal F
S2. No tone system with more than two tones T
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides] F
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) F
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants T
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless T
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction] F
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops] F
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal] T

Rireinutire is 42.0% SAE.
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KathTheDragon
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by KathTheDragon »

Let's see how Börtis (another future English) fares:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [...] H
2. Phonemic voicing T
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives T
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives T
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays T (maybe. Depends on the actual existence of /ɲ/)
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined F (see above)
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [...] T
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops T
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (...) stops [...] T
10. More non-stops than stops (...) F (there are the same number)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [...] H
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [...] H
13. No lateral obstruents F (yay for ɬ!)
14. One phonemic rhotic [...] T
15. 5-7 POAs [...] T
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs T
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [...] F
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing F
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [...] T
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [...] T
21. Three or more diphthongs T
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [...] F
23. One front rounded vowel F
24. Two or more front rounded vowels T
25. No vowel harmony T
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (...) [...] T
27. More than three degrees of vowel height T
28. Phonemic stress F
29. No phonemic tone [...] T
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed T
31. CVL syllables allowed (...) T
32. CVN syllables allowed (...) T
33. CVF syllables allowed (...) T
34. CVS syllables allowed (...) T
35. CVCC syllables allowed T
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [...] [...] F
37. CLV syllables allowed T
38. FCV syllables allowed (...), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [...] H
39. CCCV syllables allowed F
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (...) T
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed F
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed T
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (...) T
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [...] F
45. (...) affricates treated as phonemes F
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [...] F
47. No more than four POAs for stops (...) [...] T
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (...) M (depends on whether I let /n/ palatalise)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries T
50. No more than two series of fricatives T
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony (Not sure what this question's asking. Vowel PoA's?) T?
52. No velar (...) nasals at all F
53. Words can end in any consonant [...] F
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables F
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA F

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (...):
S1. No initial velar nasal T
S2. No tone system with more than two tones T
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (...), where all Cs can be non-glides [...] T
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (...) T
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants T
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless F
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [..] T
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [...] F (I think. Not clear on what 'plain' means)
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [...] T

And if I did the maths right, only 70~71 %

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by cromulant »

55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA
Languages don't seem to break this one.

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Nortaneous »

cromulant wrote:
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA
Languages don't seem to break this one.
This is because of /l r/. But Danish still breaks it: /p b f ʋ m/ vs. /t d s l n/.
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by KathTheDragon »

I have a language that breaks it, in addition to Börtis.

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Tropylium »

Nortaneous wrote:
cromulant wrote:
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA
Languages don't seem to break this one.
This is because of /l r/. But Danish still breaks it: /p b f ʋ m/ vs. /t d s l n/.
If secondary articulations do not count as separate POAs, one can even find languages that have a maximum at a non-coronal POA while having both of /r l/. E.g. Hausa, with ten velars /kʲ k kʷ kʲʼ kʼ kʷʼ gʲ g gʷ w/ versus nine alveolars /t tsʼ d ɗ n s z r l/.
[ˌʔaɪsəˈpʰɻ̊ʷoʊpɪɫ ˈʔæɫkəɦɔɫ]

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by CatDoom »

cromulant wrote:
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA
Languages don't seem to break this one.
Rotokas probly counts, if just barely, because it's usually analyzed as having an equal number of bilabial, alveolar, and velar consonants. Pirahã might, for similar reasons, but it depends on how it's analyzed. At the other end of the spectrum, if you count contrasts based on co-articulation and secondary articulation, Abaza (a Northwest Caucasian language) has 16 velar consonants and no more than 15 at any other place of articulation.

But yeah, it's not easy to find languages that qualify; it might make sense to make it more specific. How about:

"55. More dental or alveolar consonants than at any other place of articulation."

At a glance, the romance languages, German, English, and Russian would still qualify, but it would exclude a lot of non-European languages that have a ton of postalveolar coronal consonants.

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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Particles the Greek »

Has anyone done this with actual European languages, to see which ones are the most "non-European"? Might be interesting.
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Hallow XIII »

You mean like Nort's post from two days ago when he concluded Danish was as European as Ojibwe?
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Dē Graut Bʉr »

Bearlandic according to new test:
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops Depends on analysis.
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal][/quote]

83.5% SAE, rather than 89,5% in the previous test.


Xihi:
1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

53.5% SAE.

CatDoom
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by CatDoom »

A revised test you say? This bears further investigation :D.

Riktas Rammay

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] Phonemic /ʔ/
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives A bit of a grey area, but the voiced affricate d͡z does contrast with the voiceless affricate t͡s
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined Labial, dental, apical postalveolar, velar, and glottal stops; alveolar and palato-alveolar affricates; labial, alveolar, and velar nasals.
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops Alveolar and palato-alveolar
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number] 4 POAs with fricatives, 5 with stops
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] About 25, depending on how you count them
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] /l/
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one] /ɾ/
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] Another greyish area, but it's probably most accurate to say there are 7
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] Ejective stops and affricates
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] Only /a, i, u/
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress Fixed penultimate stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed CV(C) only
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) Initial velar nasal permitted
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries Intervocalic consonant length distinction in stems
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] No word final nasals, glottal consonants, dental or retroflex pulmonic stops
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Total: 45% SAE
That's a pretty significant difference!

And, just for fun, this is another language I've been working on that shares areal features with Riktas.

'Ulili

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] Phonemic glottal stop
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays Stops and fricatives
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined 4 POAs for stops, 2 for nasals
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] /j/ is the only palatal phoneme
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] About 27
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] Phonemic /l/ not distinguished from rhotics
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] 6
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing Assuming I'm correct in thinking that voiceless vs. aspirated is a phonation distinction
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] /a, ə, i, ɒ, u/
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed CV syllables only
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates] There are 5, though apical postalveolar /ʈ/ and /ʈ'/ occur only in loanwords and are not pronounced by all speakers
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] No syllable codas
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Total: 35% SAE
Notably further from "European," which was by design, though I was thinking of Riktas as "more Austronesian" rather than "more European." Lisinwalu.

Using the revised test to re-examine a few natural languages I previously looked at, it looks like Mutsun comes in at 50%, while Kashaya and Tlingit are right around 40% SAE.

baradsonoron
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Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by baradsonoron »

Results of other natlangs that have been posted in this thread:
English (Salmoneus): 93%
Swedish (Chuma): 85%
Proto-Indo-European (cedh): 69%
Mandarin: (Ollock): 62%
Ojibwe (Risla): 64%
Haida (Tropylium): 30%
Danish (Nortaneous): 65%

My results:
French 99.5
English 94.5
Armenian 67
Arabic 59
Chinese 46.5
Turkish 61
Bárád-dur!

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