How to design a non-European phonology

[Nortaneous]

And to repeat: there's nothing wrong with having a language with a Euroclone phonology. But there is something wrong with bolting shit on to English and throwing a tantrum when a test says it looks vaguely European, while showing absolutely zero sign that you've so much as skimmed a Wikipedia stub on a non-Indo-Uralic language.

[Chagen]

Name me any non-European natlang with a largish or even a huge phonology--Taa, Dahalo, Arrernte, Hmong, Yeli Dnye, Navajo, Halkomelem, whatever--and I'll show you phonemes, contrasts, entire feature combinations it lacks that SAE languages have. That's because they aren't simply expanded SAE packs. They aren't simply English with extra shit bolted on.

They differ from SAE not just in terms of what they have, but what they lack.

Pazmat seems to lack nothing that European languages have.

That is going to elevate its score on the test, and it is going to heighten the subjective impression of Europeanness.

You keep misconstruing everything about my conlangs into "English with extra shit bolted on". How many times must I tell you that Pazmat is a Split-S language before it sticks in?

Also, you ARE aware that Proto-Pasuu had pre-nasalized plosives, no "pure" nasal stops, two fricatives, twenty stops, and three different vowel lengths, and four syllabic consonants (which also had three different lengths), right?

Also, Azenti, an almost 100% head-initial language with vowel harmony, back unrounded vowels, no verbal-marking of person or number, distinction of dual on all nouns (yeah, yeah, PIE, but it wasn't a SAE language) is obviously SAE amirite?

Also, Ac'eng Ko is clearly a rip-off of German and Italian:

/m n ŋ/
/p pʰ p' t tʰ t' k k'/
/s/
/ts tʃ ts' tʃ'/
/w l ɾ j/
/a i e o u/
/a: i: e: o: u:/

Oh, and Ngith is CLEARLY an SAE rip-off, just look at that phonology!

/p pˤ t tʷ tˤ k kʷ kˤ q qʷ/
/s θ/
/t' k' q'/
/ts ts'/
/ɓ ɠ/
/n m ŋ/
/j w r/

/i a u/
/i: a: u:/
/ẽ õ/
/ẽː õː/

Yes, that looks as SAE as French and German.

Man, it's almost like you're spouting bullshit!

By the way, I should mention that Ac'eng Ko was a direct-inverse language with verbal gender (verbs were marked inversely if the agent was unexpected/strange for the verb--each verb took a certain class of nouns as "normal" for it).

Ngith was/is a polysynthetic language inspired by Tlingit.

MAN putting people on blast and exposing their fraudulence when they spout bullshit is amazing.

while showing absolutely zero sign that you've so much as skimmed a Wikipedia stub on a non-Indo-Uralic language.

This an absolute lie and you know it.

You're committing character assassination and slander at this point. This whole conversation has shown me that you two haven't ever even read anything conlang-related I've posted. You have this bizarre caricature of me in your head that you two are hell-bent on viewing me as and when I obviously don't act like this caricature you distort and bend the facts to apply it to me.

Also, I'll let you know that I currently am pouring over a Tlingit grammar given to me by the wonderful Micamo on the CBB.

I haven't exposed fraudulence this hard in a while.

[KathTheDragon]

Let us say again that the test doesn't care how exotic your grammar or morphology is.

[Nortaneous]

lmfao

[clawgrip]

Japanese using Nortaneous's newer test:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops (half mark because it has affricates and fricatives at one stop)
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents (debatable: counting /r/ as [ɺ])
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever] (uvular has only /ɴ/)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Unless I've messed something up, Japanese scores 62%

[Chagen]

lmfao

Are you laughing because deep down, you know what I said about you viewing me as some Eddy-tier caricature was true?

Let us say again that the test doesn't care how exotic your grammar or morphology is.

That part wasn't about the test. It was about the complete and utter slander and character assassination Nort and Cromulant were doing.

[clawgrip]

Himmaswa:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives (no phonemic voicing on fricatives)
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined (because of glottal fricative)
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] (glottal only has fricative, palatal has no fricative)
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number] (half mark because if affricates count as stops then no, but if they count as fricatives then yes)
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) (6 stops, 8 non-stops including affricates)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] (18)
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] (5)
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing (does allophonic ingressive count?)
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] (allophonic ingressive)
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] (7 basic vowels)
21. Three or more diphthongs (18 diphthongs)
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels (counting the long and short versions of /œ/, since "long" /œ/ is actually /ʏœ̯/
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] (rhoticity, breathy voice, creaky voice)
27. More than three degrees of vowel height (basic vowels no, but with diphthongs and so on yes)
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates) (SSV allowed)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed (SNV allowed)
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates] (4, counting affricates)
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) (initial /ɲ/ and /ŋ/ allowed)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries (because most roots are monosyllabic)
50. No more than two series of fricatives (unvoiced fricatives only)
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony (including diphthongs and phonation types, there are 38 vowels, but no vowel harmony)
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] (no voiced consonants or fricatives allowed)
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA (dental and labial are equal)

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants (allophonic ingressive)
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Total: 57% (again, if I haven't messed anything up)

[Nortaneous]

in a world of rampant character assassination, one man stands alone, a brave warrior against fraudulence and slander,

[Chagen]

Are you going to own up to all the bullshit you spouted or are you just going to be a flippant asshole?

[clawgrip]

Nortaneous: You flippant asshole! Stop with all the bullshit spouting already, man! Geez!
Chagen: Your language scored high because you included things in it that the test specifically scores for, and you also pointed out that the test is not perfect and I think everyone agrees on that!

Now let's call it even and talk about phonologies again.

[Nortaneous]

the latter. anyway here's standard enzielu

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops (half mark because it has affricates and fricatives at one stop)
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] (exactly 15)
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] (<r> isn't a rhotic in standard)
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony (very limited in scope, but)
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever] (uvular has only /ɴ/)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] (not sure yet but)
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) (9 unless you count diphthongs)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

68%

was expecting higher, since it's a Basque clone. many dialects preserve /b d/ and some even preserve /g/ and develop /o/ and voiced affricates (standard has b d g > v r r/0) so they'd probably score well within the European range

[Nortaneous]

speaking of Basque:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives (only on the phoneme represented by <j> and only in some dialects, so I'm not counting it)
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] (Spanish-influenced dialects with j > x wouldn't get this point)
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel (except Souletin)
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities] (some dialects do have a full nasal series)
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever] (only velars are /k g/ except in dialects with j > x)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] (/p b d g m 4 L/)
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides] (glides means approximants, right?)
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) (9 unless you count diphthongs)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops] (if you call /j/ a fricative this gets all five points)
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal] (again, if you call /j/ a fricative...)

68%, exactly the same as my clone of it, how about that. although there's like a ten-point spread across dialects

[Hallow XIII]

mon crâne est rempli de la terrine de foie gras

No, I have not done "research" into your langs, but I have read your posts on them. And from what I've seen, not only do your langs have stapler phonologies, but you do similar things with your morphosyntax as well. Case in point: cases are not a European feature per se, but fusional case morphemes in multiple declension classes is basically a defining IE family feature.

Et cetera.

PS: also you should probably not respond to "your phonology is European" with "PAXNUT IS SPLIT-S"; these have nothing to do with each other and make you look even more like a discombobulated maniac.

[CatDoom]

Trying out ʔösleömös, my work-in-progress Akana language.

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar] Phonemic glottal stop
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives There are voiced affricates as well... not sure which way to go on this one
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives Phonemic distinction between /h/ and /ɦ/
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] 41 consonant phonemes
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] A little iffy on this; ʔösleömös contrasts plain and preglottalized alveolar lateral approximants,
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one] As above, contrastive plain and glottalized alveolar flaps
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs 5: labial, alveolar, palato-alveolar, velar, and glottal
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing Phonemic aspirated consonants
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series] Phonemic ejectives
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] 6 vowel qualities
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel No front rounded vowels
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony Vowel height harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height Only 3 phonemic degrees, though allophones cover a wider range
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed] CVCCC syllables are rare, but may end in a liquid or /h/
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed Certain SNV clusters are allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both] No syllabic consonants
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) Initial velar nasal
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables Depends on dialect and idiolect, and even then only in certain social registers
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Total: 55% SAE

[Chagen]

No, I have not done "research" into your langs, but I have read your posts on them. And from what I've seen, not only do your langs have stapler phonologies, but you do similar things with your morphosyntax as well. Case in point: cases are not a European feature per se, but fusional case morphemes in multiple declension classes is basically a defining IE family feature.

And is that such a bad thing? Jesus.

And in any case, "you do similar things with your morphosyntax as well" clearly shows that you are spouting complete lies once again. I suggest you actually read my Heocg and Azenti threads and compare the two languages, and you'll see that they are quite different.

And christ almighty what the fuck does "stapler phonologies" even MEAN? Are you just making up bullshit in an attempt to validate your point?

PS: also you should probably not respond to "your phonology is European" with "PAXNUT IS SPLIT-S"; these have nothing to do with each other and make you look even more like a discombobulated maniac.

By the time I started saying that I was defending myself from blatant attacks on my conlangs and lies about them all being SAE-rip offs.

Also good job ignoring the Ngith and Ac'eng Ko phonologies, but of course you'd selectively deny the existence of things that make it difficult for you to spread lies.

Anyway:

Heocg, using the old test because I didn't notice that it WAS the old test until after I already finished working on it.

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing [half mark if voicing is only part of the distinction]
3. Two and only two parallel series of phonemes at each POA at which at least one stop is present (glottal, if present, excluded from the series) (a series still counts if it is missing only one phoneme from the expected series)
4. At least two series distinguished by voicing alone (i.e. at each POA where one of the series occurs, the other occurs and the only difference is voicing) (up to one POA where this is not true allowed) [half mark if voicing is one feature distinguishing the series].
5. At least two series with identical POA arrays (i.e. at least two series not showing any gaps)
6. Nasals at multiple POAs
7. No single MOA (stops, fricatives, nasals, liquids) found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. Voicing distinction on all fricatives (one gap permitted) [half mark for some other distinction between fricatives at same POA, or for more than one gap, or voicing can be distinctive in some circumstances but isn't the only distinction - but no more than one of these exceptions]
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops) [half mark if this is true counting nasals as non-stops]
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one, or if there is a phonemic lateral not distinguished from a rhotic at the same POA]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. No systematic double-articulation (i.e. double-articulation limited to a few 'random' phonemes, not a cohesive pattern)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel.
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height [half mark for three degrees]
28. Phonemic stress [half mark for fixed initial stress]
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for pitch-accent or two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA.
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. SSV or CSSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCNV syllables not allowed
42. SNV syllables not allowed
43. Syllabic consonants only in word-final (not including compounds!) position (includes no syllabic consonants)
44. All words must include at least one vowel [half mark if all content-words include at least one vowel]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. If an MOA exists or an MOA/phonation combination, it exists at a coronal POA (not including approximants)
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel qualities AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Words can end in any vowel [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation disticntions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Heocg is roughly....53% SAE

Wait, what the fuck? I intended for Heocg to be Old English and Sanskrit's lovechild (though it ended up being way more different with sentences like Wreccaði, ek macgar writoyo mṛdhokkibhu, stoya fecgur gaccayo). Yet according to this test it is LESS SAE than New Pazmat.

Must've been the lack of voicing on the fricatives and the preponderance of stops and breathy voice distinction.

[Astraios]

No, it was definitely Nort's faulty testing methods. You should absolutely make your own test so that your results match what you decide they should be.

[cromulant]

It was about the complete and utter slander and character assassination Nort and Cromulant were doing.

Oh, I see. You're a lunatic.

Also, you ARE aware that Proto-Pasuu

no one cares

[Chagen]

I was not criticizing the test that one time. I was merely pointing out the objective fact that Heocg scored lower than Pazmat when it was built to score high at the beginning.

But of course that wouldn't be very good for slinging around snarky bullshit would it? So you, like most of the people on this forum, made up up this imaginary complaint from me solely so you could slander me AGAIN.

I don't know why you flippant fucks think that you will EVER make me acquiesce to your bullshit, so just give up now.

Oh, I see. You're a lunatic.

No. They are lying, spreading lies about me, making things up and then trying to pull some "we've always been at war with Eastasia" bullshit, among various other things. I'm pointing out their lies, though they're not ever gonna own up to them.

no one cares

>you lie
>I point out your lie
>"no one cares"

yeah fuck you too. You've stacked the odds to disadvantage me in every aspect, but that won't stop me.

You guys have been trying to bully me off of this forum but it's not gonna work. GIVE UP.

Also I love how you STILL refuse to even acknowledge the existence of Ac'eng Ko and Ngith solely because they don't fit the bullshit caricature you have of me in your head. Denial's a bitch, ain't it?

[Nortaneous]

[R.Rusanov]

Chagen, didn't you have a different signature of late?

[ęzo]

To return to phonologies — Mîrkšam:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays (plosives and nasal plosives)
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs] (fricatives)
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops (alveolopalatal, interdental)
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40] (17)
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one] (no laterals)
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one] (r)
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs] (6)
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs (p t c k)
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing (no phonemic phonation distinction at all)
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more] (10)
21. Three or more diphthongs (no diphthongs)
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels] (has ɯ)
23. One front rounded vowel (two of them)
24. Two or more front rounded vowels (y, ø)
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height (exactly 3)
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both] (no syllabic consonants)
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes (no affricates)
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal) (velar and palatal nasals can be initial)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries (no gemination anywhere)
50. No more than two series of fricatives (one series)
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony (10, but vowel harmony)
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] (not /w/)
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

Total: 63%. Not very European by natlang standards, but not exactly exotic either.

[cromulant]

To return to phonologies —

Yes.

[clawgrip]

Chagen, I recommend you use Nortaneous's newer test rather than the older one you have been using. The older one has some errors in it, namely #6 and the contradictory #39 & #41.

[finlay]

Japanese using Nortaneous's newer test:


Unless I've messed something up, Japanese scores 61.5%

You know, I'm not gonna let you count Japanese as having tone. 61%.

[clawgrip]

Did you switch it to phonemic stress?