Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #94: Face and Politeness)

[Jipí]

You sounded like a Finn speaking RP English

[Nannalu]

You sounded like a Finn speaking RP English

Omggggggg.
Okay, my name is Swedish and Finnish but I am Australian but my accent has fucked itself up because of travelling to much.

I don't mind sounding like a Finn but yknow.

[Ollock]

You sounded like a Finn speaking RP English

Omggggggg.
Okay, my name is Swedish and Finnish but I am Australian but my accent has fucked itself up because of travelling to much.

I don't mind sounding like a Finn but yknow.

All of this is ok. I'm pretty sure I pronounced your forum name as [nu:nalu], and repeatedly butchered your real name during the episode.

[Nannalu]

You sounded like a Finn speaking RP English

Omggggggg.
Okay, my name is Swedish and Finnish but I am Australian but my accent has fucked itself up because of travelling to much.

I don't mind sounding like a Finn but yknow.

All of this is ok. I'm pretty sure I pronounced your forum name as [nu:nalu], and repeatedly butchered your real name during the episode.

Haha I don't even know how to pronounce my forum name but I am now using your pronunciation. And I wouldn't worry about pronouncing my name correctly because I've had so many people call me "oil" and "ole" like mole.
I just tell people to pronounce my name like they're bull fighting or using high brand moisturisers. OLÉ, OLAY.

[Aurora Rossa]

I believe the double accent mark used on certain vowels in Tseeyo represents an extra-high tone. Some languages in Africa, from what little I have read, have the extra-high tone as an allotone of a high tone preceded by another high tone. Others have developed this into an independent phoneme to some extent and the orthography marks them with the double accent mark.

[Ollock]

I believe the double accent mark used on certain vowels in Tseeyo represents an extra-high tone. Some languages in Africa apparently have the extra-high tone as an allotone of a high tone preceded by another high tone. Others have developed this into an independent phoneme to some extent and the orthography marks them with the double accent mark.

Oh, good to know.

[finlay]

You sounded like a Finn speaking RP English

Omggggggg.
Okay, my name is Swedish and Finnish but I am Australian but my accent has fucked itself up because of travelling to much.

I don't mind sounding like a Finn but yknow.

All of this is ok. I'm pretty sure I pronounced your forum name as [nu:nalu], and repeatedly butchered your real name during the episode.

Haha I don't even know how to pronounce my forum name but I am now using your pronunciation. And I wouldn't worry about pronouncing my name correctly because I've had so many people call me "oil" and "ole" like mole.
I just tell people to pronounce my name like they're bull fighting or using high brand moisturisers. OLÉ, OLAY.

I haven't finished the episode yet, but there's a couple of things I want you, george, to take away from this: basically it's important to give your guest hosts a proper introduction at the beginning of the episode. Tell us where they're from, at the very least. As it happened, you mumbled over the guy's name and didn't tell us where he was from (unless I missed it), leaving me to have to work it out – so at first I thought he was Finnish and speaking with a Finnish accent, until he got a chance to speak for a few moments more and I realised he just had quite a moderate London accent (certainly not RP!) and a bit of a lisp. You tell us every week where Bianca and Will hail from, so it would make sense if you did the same for your guest stars.

Also, it sounded like an exasperating topic to discuss... it got to inverse voices and you kept not getting it, which was a bit exasperating to listen to, I must say...

[Kereb]

Also, it sounded like an exasperating topic to discuss... it got to inverse voices and you kept not getting it, which was a bit exasperating to listen to, I must say...

I was maybe not as annoyed as you with this, but it would be a good example of a time where a little editing could make a lot of difference

[Ollock]

I haven't finished the episode yet, but there's a couple of things I want you, george, to take away from this: basically it's important to give your guest hosts a proper introduction at the beginning of the episode. Tell us where they're from, at the very least. As it happened, you mumbled over the guy's name and didn't tell us where he was from (unless I missed it), leaving me to have to work it out – so at first I thought he was Finnish and speaking with a Finnish accent, until he got a chance to speak for a few moments more and I realised he just had quite a moderate London accent (certainly not RP!) and a bit of a lisp. You tell us every week where Bianca and Will hail from, so it would make sense if you did the same for your guest stars.

If you listen to the outtakes at the end, you will see precisely why there was so much trouble there. I was quite honestly totally confused about who Nannalu was and when he was supposed to be on. In the future, I think I'll be more selective about choosing guests (no offense), and try to develop some sort of process for getting everyone on the same page about certain things. The last couple times we've had guests on have somewhat irked me.

Also, it sounded like an exasperating topic to discuss... it got to inverse voices and you kept not getting it, which was a bit exasperating to listen to, I must say...

I was maybe not as annoyed as you with this, but it would be a good example of a time where a little editing could make a lot of difference

Trust me, there are real professional podcasts that occasionally have similarly awkward issues. Granted, most of those are live, but to tell the truth, I do not have the time, skill, or patience to do real content editing. I wouldn't edit at all if we didn't have audio problems with every single episode. If I had the money I would buy everyone on the podcast a professional-grade microphone just so I can fix that problem.

[Kereb]

so far the audio quality itself has been mostly just fine
I'm talking about the odd occasion where there was a little bit that coulda been cut out just to improve the flow of conversation ... not so much in this episode but I can think of past ones where there were a few occasions of people talking over one another and then oh sorry i interrupted you etc
all perfectly natural things that happen in a conversation but you might as well snip em out to make the show tighter
like if someone sneezed into their mic, you'd probably cut that out

And I appreciate that you're the one putting time and effort into this thing and I'm the guy sitting here complaining about a free product ... but it can't hurt to suggest

as far as skill / etc ... I do have a *little* experience with editing sound and video (though more video). Maybe I could take a crack at it?

[Ollock]

so far the audio quality itself has been mostly just fine
I'm talking about the odd occasion where there was a little bit that coulda been cut out just to improve the flow of conversation ... not so much in this episode but I can think of past ones where there were a few occasions of people talking over one another and then oh sorry i interrupted you etc
all perfectly natural things that happen in a conversation but you might as well snip em out to make the show tighter
like if someone sneezed into their mic, you'd probably cut that out

True, though I am somewhat limited by the fact that we are all being recorded on a single track (or, in a couple episodes, me on one track and everyone else on the other). Also, with none of us being used to performing in radio, it seems like some times that kind of thing happens right when someone is saying something important (although that may just be because I'm too close to my own product.

And I appreciate that you're the one putting time and effort into this thing and I'm the guy sitting here complaining about a free product ... but it can't hurt to suggest

True. I appreciate the feedback, even if I get a little annoyed with people complaining about a show I do absolutely for free. (I've actually thought about monetizing from the start, but Will and Bianca don't seem to be interested, and I don't really know if the audience is sufficient. Plus, there are several other issues.)

as far as skill / etc ... I do have a *little* experience with editing sound and video (though more video). Maybe I could take a crack at it?

Would you? I'd love for someone else to do editing for me. Can you use Audacity? If you want to give it a try, send me your email over PM and I will send you the raw cut of episode 26 with the other relevant Audacity files (intro/outro music, my "ending spiel", etc). Send me back an MP3 and if I like what you did with it, you can edit for us as often as you're able to.

[Kereb]

k

[finlay]

sorry if i come across as overly negative when i make comments.

[Bob Johnson]

sorry if i come across as overly negative when i make comments.

you're welcome to join the order of pessimists

our motto is omnes merdae

[Gray Richardson]

Do people tell you enough how much they enjoy the podcast?
Because I really, really enjoy your podcast.
Lights my face up whenever I see a new one posted.

[Ollock]

Do people tell you enough how much they enjoy the podcast?
Because I really, really enjoy your podcast.
Lights my face up whenever I see a new one posted.

Haha, thanks. We do get compliments. And I like it. Of course, I take it as compliment that people actually listen and comment/send email (nobody calls, though :'( ).

I don't mind the complaints too much either. Once in a while I get irked, but ultimately all the criticism we've had was constructive. So far no actual trolls.

[finlay]

Sorry, but it's not like I'm going to call an international number. I think voicemail lines are something that you should add in if you have the demand for it – I mean, does it not cost you money to keep it going? Or is it a service provided by skype or something like that?

[Ollock]

Sorry, but it's not like I'm going to call an international number. I think voicemail lines are something that you should add in if you have the demand for it – I mean, does it not cost you money to keep it going? Or is it a service provided by skype or something like that?

It's a Google Talk number. It's free. Otherwise I wouldn't have put it in.

I am aware of the limitations for international listeners -- though more than half of our listeners are in the US. I can't afford to pay for an 800 number or anything like that.

You can also send a "voicemail" by emailing an audio file. I think it could be valuable who want to make sure their conlang words are pronounced correctly.

EDIT: Oh, BTW, while I have some people's attention here, I could really use some more intros ("Welcome to Conlangery, the podcast about constructed languages and the people who create them" in your conlang). As audio files pleez. You guys know how bad I have done with IPA discriptions.

[finlay]

I'll think about it... I think I posted a transcription but you never recorded it (and my conlang's changed a bit anyway), so it might be best if I send you a new one. On that subject, they are often a bit muffled or they can be over very quickly, and I often miss them altogether by accident

Here's what it might be:
Ypnyykèèsumacaxeel mààn tiy! Epid nun ypnyykèèsuèz nè nu ypnyyk'a mo xòŋaiz xuum àvul zuycbàileex zy. Veanys smiin kix ŋèbmt'e.
invent-language-follower-DEF.BEN welcome IMP! this 3.NOM invent-language-INDEF.DAT and 3.ACC invent-HAB REL person-DEF.DAT about electric listening-show-DEF.ACC IPFV. hopefully 2.FRM.NOM 3.ACC like-INCHO

Because Sentalian has rather strictly left-branching syntax under most circumstances, I've changed the sentences a little bit, to something like "Welcome to Conlangery[the followers of invented languages]! This is the electronic radio show about invented languages and the people who invent them." – and the third sentence is something like "We hope you enjoy the show" or literally "Hopefully you'll start to like it".

IPA for standard-ish Sentalian: [əpnɛikɛːsumaɕaxeːl mɒːn tiə || epid nun əpnɛikɛːsuɛz nɛ nu əpnɛikʼa mo xɔŋaiz xuːm ɒʋul zuəɕbɒileːx zə || ʋeanəs smiːn kix ŋɛbⁿtʼe]
The other dialects might be more interesting. If you want me to record it exactly like this, that'd be fine, or you could pick any of seven accents for me to record it in, all subtly different. say the word.

[there's standard Sentalian, Kanteian, Rempocian, Vidoan, Facurian, Mybutan, and Dotolian at the moment. Actually, I'd be more willing to do some of them than others; I don't particularly like Vidoan much for instance]

edit: wrong pronoun

[Ollock]

I'll think about it... I think I posted a transcription but you never recorded it (and my conlang's changed a bit anyway), so it might be best if I send you a new one. On that subject, they are often a bit muffled or they can be over very quickly, and I often miss them altogether by accident

Well, when I have to record, I generally only record the "Welcome to Conlangery" part. And I always give preference to recordings, which occassionally have audio issues I can't do anything about. In any case, it's not the most important part of the show. But it is fun.

Here's what it might be:
Ypnyykèèsumacaxeel mààn tiy! Epid nun ypnyykèèsuèz nè nu ypnyyk'a mo xòŋaiz xuum àvul zuycbàileex zy. Veanys smiin nu ŋèbmt'e.
invent-language-follower-DEF.BEN welcome IMP! this 3.NOM invent-language-INDEF.DAT and 3.ACC invent-HAB REL person-DEF.DAT about electric listening-show-DEF.ACC IPFV. hopefully 2.FRM.NOM 3.ACC like-INCHO

Because Sentalian has rather strictly left-branching syntax under most circumstances, I've changed the sentences a little bit, to something like "Welcome to Conlangery[the followers of invented languages]! This is the electronic radio show about invented languages and the people who invent them." – and the third sentence is something like "We hope you enjoy the show" or literally "Hopefully you'll start to like it".

IPA for standard-ish Sentalian: [əpnɛikɛːsumaɕaxeːl mɒːn tiə || epid nun əpnɛikɛːsuɛz nɛ nu əpnɛikʼa mo xɔŋaiz xuːm ɒʋul zuəɕbɒileːx zə || ʋeanəs smiːn nu ŋɛbⁿtʼe]
The other dialects might be more interesting. If you want me to record it exactly like this, that'd be fine, or you could pick any of seven accents for me to record it in, all subtly different. say the word.

[there's standard Sentalian, Kanteian, Rempocian, Vidoan, Facurian, Mybutan, and Dotolian at the moment. Actually, I'd be more willing to do some of them than others; I don't particularly like Vidoan much for instance]

I'll see. Exactly which part is "Welcome to Conlangery"? From your gloss it looks like the first three words, but I want to be sure.

Bianca has said that I should only accept recordings, since I murder the IPA fairly often. But I get so few bites as it is. If my old TC hasn't been pruned I'll look to see if there are any translations I haven't used.

[finlay]

I'll do the recording of the whole thing for you if you want, maybe later tonight, maybe tomorrow or something. And yeah, the first three words mean welcome to conlangery. I've translated conlangery as literally "the followers of invented languages", though, rather than "the practice of inventing languages" – if it's really important that it's the second rather than the first, it could be retranslated as "ypnyykèèsumacul" rather than -macaxeel. -mac is roughly equivalent to -ism, but I've sort of decided that most Sentalians sort of forget that it's a standalone suffix, since it usually appears in conjunction with -ax (the 'follower' part), so one with -macax would be a more naturalistic translation. (u and ee is a noun class/gender thing and -l is benefactive – mààn tiy is "be welcome!"-imperative; mààn (welcome-adjective) goes with a benefactive in Sentalian rather than a dative or something)

[Jipí]

EDIT: Oh, BTW, while I have some people's attention here, I could really use some more intros ("Welcome to Conlangery, the podcast about constructed languages and the people who create them" in your conlang). As audio files pleez. You guys know how bad I have done with IPA discriptions.

Is the original thread where you requested translations still on here? Though to be honest, I was curious if and how you'd mangle mine if you chose to read it sometime.

[Ollock]

I'll do the recording of the whole thing for you if you want, maybe later tonight, maybe tomorrow or something. And yeah, the first three words mean welcome to conlangery. I've translated conlangery as literally "the followers of invented languages", though, rather than "the practice of inventing languages" – if it's really important that it's the second rather than the first, it could be retranslated as "ypnyykèèsumacul" rather than -macaxeel. -mac is roughly equivalent to -ism, but I've sort of decided that most Sentalians sort of forget that it's a standalone suffix, since it usually appears in conjunction with -ax (the 'follower' part), so one with -macax would be a more naturalistic translation. (u and ee is a noun class/gender thing and -l is benefactive – mààn tiy is "be welcome!"-imperative; mààn (welcome-adjective) goes with a benefactive in Sentalian rather than a dative or something)

I would definitely prefer a recording -- send it to conlangery@gmail.com. And translate it as you will. I generally like the presentation of it as "the art of inventing languages" (I saw a Chinese-language mention of Conlangery that translated it as 人工语言艺术播客 -- "man-made-language-art-podcast"). But if the "followers" translation is more natural/common for this sort of thing in your language, then by all means do it. My intention is for everyone to decide how to translate themselves, whether they want to just borrow it outright or create a unique and meaningful local translation.

EDIT: Oh, BTW, while I have some people's attention here, I could really use some more intros ("Welcome to Conlangery, the podcast about constructed languages and the people who create them" in your conlang). As audio files pleez. You guys know how bad I have done with IPA discriptions.

Is the original thread where you requested it still on here? Though to be honest, I was curious if and how you'd mangle it if you chose to read mine sometime.

Do a search for "Welcome to Conlangery" through the board's internal search and see if you find it. If not, you can email those to conlangery@gmail.com. In fact, the email method is really preferred at this point

[finlay]

Is it alright if I just post it here? I've just put it in my dropbox, you see...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15543016/zbb/conlangery-std.wav
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15543016/zbb/conlangery-myb.wav

The first one is the Standard version; the second is the Mybutan dialect, which essentially gets rid of a lot of schwas from the standard version. Here's the idealised transcription:
[pnaikeːsʏmaʃaxeːl mɑːn tiː
ɛpɪd nʏn pnaikeːsuːz nɛ nʏ pnaikʼa mɔ xɔŋaiz xyːm ɑvʏl zyːʒbaileːxs
veːns smiːn kɪx ŋɛntʼɛ]

I'm only fast at doing it because I've been practising for the past half an hour trying to get the perfect recording... and it's still not perfect, because there are bits that I'm definitely not pronouncing quite correctly at that speed. Also, it's weird listening back to the Standard version after practising at the Mybutan for so long, because it now sounds formal and stilted to me, because it's got all these extra syllables that the Mybutan dialect does away with. I'm still rubbish at doing initial ŋ and the ejectives – half of what I've been practising on is actually trying to get the ejectives not to be quite so sharp, because I get the feeling that this is more naturalistic, and also to flow better. Mybutan and Facurian are the only non-standard dialects to keep the ejectives, at the moment, anyway, so maybe I picked badly there.

I'm not sure if that's the first time I've recorded my conlang, but there haven't been many times!

As for "the art of conlanging", let's just say I can't be bothered trying to record the damn thing again, and I quite like this translation of it. IIRC I need to redo my word for "art" anyway because it doesn't fit my phonotactics very well. Or at least, I don't think it does. It's an ok word, lyyo (/lɛi.o/), but I haven't defined whether it's ok to have a vowel come after /ɛi/ like that. And there are currently no other words like that. In upper-class and southern dialects of Sentalian it'd be /lɨː.o/ instead, incidentally (whence the orthography), and diphthongs starting with short <y> (/ə/ or /ɨ/) aren't permitted. So I'm just slightly unsure. Anyway, that's all a big aside.

It's up to you to choose which one sounds better. Personally I prefer the Mybutan, but if you think the Standard one will sound better on the podcast, go for it! I could do one or two more dialects, perhaps, although not tonight as it's late. I could even try and translate it into another language entirely.........

[Ollock]

Is it alright if I just post it here? I've just put it in my dropbox, you see...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15543016/zbb/conlangery-std.wav
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15543016/zbb/conlangery-myb.wav

The first one is the Standard version; the second is the Mybutan dialect, which essentially gets rid of a lot of schwas from the standard version. Here's the idealised transcription:
[pnaikeːsʏmaʃaxeːl mɑːn tiː
ɛpɪd nʏn pnaikeːsuːz nɛ nʏ pnaikʼa mɔ xɔŋaiz xyːm ɑvʏl zyːʒbaileːxs
veːns smiːn kɪx ŋɛntʼɛ]

I'm only fast at doing it because I've been practising for the past half an hour trying to get the perfect recording... and it's still not perfect, because there are bits that I'm definitely not pronouncing quite correctly at that speed. Also, it's weird listening back to the Standard version after practising at the Mybutan for so long, because it now sounds formal and stilted to me, because it's got all these extra syllables that the Mybutan dialect does away with. I'm still rubbish at doing initial ŋ and the ejectives – half of what I've been practising on is actually trying to get the ejectives not to be quite so sharp, because I get the feeling that this is more naturalistic, and also to flow better. Mybutan and Facurian are the only non-standard dialects to keep the ejectives, at the moment, anyway, so maybe I picked badly there.

Interesting. The Mybutan dialect does sound rather "quicker" than the Standard. Very interesting. Is the Standard mainly a ceremonial register, rather than a true standard? Also, I'm glad you took the time. When I record people's conlangs, one weakness is lack of time or patience to spend more than about 5-10 minutes working on it. That and I can't really get the prosody right much of the time.

I'm not sure if that's the first time I've recorded my conlang, but there haven't been many times!

As for "the art of conlanging", let's just say I can't be bothered trying to record the damn thing again, and I quite like this translation of it. IIRC I need to redo my word for "art" anyway because it doesn't fit my phonotactics very well. Or at least, I don't think it does. It's an ok word, lyyo (/lɛi.o/), but I haven't defined whether it's ok to have a vowel come after /ɛi/ like that. And there are currently no other words like that. In upper-class and southern dialects of Sentalian it'd be /lɨː.o/ instead, incidentally (whence the orthography), and diphthongs starting with short <y> (/ə/ or /ɨ/) aren't permitted. So I'm just slightly unsure. Anyway, that's all a big aside.

OK. As I said, the way you translate the name is up to you. I honestly thought your first translation was quite good -- very thoughtful and creative in terms of how such things are expressed in a language. Quite a few people go for a simple phonetic loan, which avoids that sort of thoughtful semantics. When I did the Aeruyo version I did a phonetic loan as well, with the addition of a term referring to a theatre troop to carry the case marking (since I couldn't think of a nice-sounding way to stick it to "konlángeri".

It's up to you to choose which one sounds better. Personally I prefer the Mybutan, but if you think the Standard one will sound better on the podcast, go for it! I could do one or two more dialects, perhaps, although not tonight as it's late. I could even try and translate it into another language entirely.........

I may use both -- spaced apart a bit, of course. I've already done two Delang versions, one (badly) read by me and another which the creator recorded himself.