Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #94: Face and Politeness)

[Ollock]

Ollock did you receive and upload the smaller mp3?

Haven't uploaded it yet. I'll get to it. Been kinda busy.

[finlay]

What do you mean when you say that Esperanto is obsessed with transitivity? That's not a particular characterisation I've seen of it before....

[Ollock]

We had fun talking to DJP in this one: Conlangery #28: "Correlatives" (well mostly indefinites)

[Jipí]

The file's tag says "Episode #29" BTW.

[Ollock]

The file's tag says "Episode #29" BTW.

Yeah, I know. I made a mistake in tagging it (I finished editing very late last night, after listening to most of it on 1.35 speed). I really don't feel like re-uploading the file to change it at this point. Maybe later, some day when it's not likely to disrupt people's downloading.

Also, i finally uploaded the smaller file for episode 27.

[Přemysl]

I don't think the author of Gomain is L1 English, mostly due to the Slavic vibe George picked up and the typo of "everjone". As for the offensive word in the B's, it is listed as offensive, so the closest word pragmatically does seem to be the one used. I have a conlang with a couple swear that almost mean the same as certain sacre so I used the sacre as the translation instead of the English to get the point across.

And I totally agree on having good sound samples. After a few more weeks of idle practice I can do the intro so much better than what was in this episode, with proper stress and word final h not sounding like I have asthma.

[Jadyndar]

I don't think the author of Gomain is L1 English, mostly due to the Slavic vibe George picked up and the typo of "everjone".

I am L1 English, actually. I just happen to also have Asperger's (and, coincidentally, an elementary-school classmate once told me I sounded Russian, despite my not having any Slavic ancestry at all). Any ‹j› for ‹y› typos in the dictionary are just the result of my most recent orthography update, when I changed the grapheme for Gomain /ʏ/ to ‹y› and consequently had to change /j/ to ‹j›. I just forgot to restrict the Find & Replace in Word to boldface text, so some English words got messed up. Thanks for pointing that typo out, though.

As for the offensive word in the B's, it is listed as offensive, so the closest word pragmatically does seem to be the one used. I have a conlang with a couple swear that almost mean the same as certain sacre so I used the sacre as the translation instead of the English to get the point across.

Right, I definitely wanted to make it clear that that word (bélgjũ; obvious HHGG borrowing is obvious) is offensive, as with the other swearwords in the dictionary, hence my inclusion of the sacres in their definitions.

[Rodlox]

Congratulations, Bianca! May all your days and years be rich, healthy, and enjoyed by you.

have nice days and be well.

[Ollock]

I am L1 English, actually. I just happen to also have Asperger's (and, coincidentally, an elementary-school classmate once told me I sounded Russian, despite my not having any Slavic ancestry at all). Any ‹j› for ‹y› typos in the dictionary are just the result of my most recent orthography update, when I changed the grapheme for Gomain /ʏ/ to ‹y› and consequently had to change /j/ to ‹j›. I just forgot to restrict the Find & Replace in Word to boldface text, so some English words got messed up. Thanks for pointing that typo out, though.

(emphasis mine)

This reminds me -- I really would like someone to do a demographic study of the conlanging community to confirm whether certain groups are overrepresented in the conlanging community:

1) homosexuals (particularly homosexual men)
2) people with autism spectrum disorders
3) atheists

I think it would be very interesting to have the data and actually be able to tell whether my perceptions are correct on that.

[Jadyndar]

This reminds me -- I really would like someone to do a demographic study of the conlanging community to confirm whether certain groups are overrepresented in the conlanging community:

1) homosexuals (particularly homosexual men)
2) people with autism spectrum disorders
3) atheists

I think it would be very interesting to have the data and actually be able to tell whether my perceptions are correct on that.

I agree; that'd be really interesting to find out. (I, personally, only fall into group #2, FWIW.)

There were no glosses in the Gomain Reference Grammar? Maybe I gave you the wrong link. I added glosses to all the examples around the time I suggested Gomain as a featured conlang, specifically for the podcast, but the filename changed along the way (to the current Gomain Reference Grammar.pdf).

It's cool that DJP remembered me from LCC2 - and interesting that he underestimated my age (that happens a lot due to my looks); I was 21 at the conference and am almost 26 now. I'd be happy to respond to other comments from the episode over Skype if you're interested (I'll PM you my Skype name if so).

[Ollock]

It's cool that DJP remembered me from LCC2 - and interesting that he underestimated my age (that happens a lot due to my looks); I was 21 at the conference and am almost 26 now. I'd be happy to respond to other comments from the episode over Skype if you're interested (I'll PM you my Skype name if so).

Hmm, maybe. What did you have in mind? If it's going to be relatively short, I could play it during our feedback segment.

[Jadyndar]

Hmm, maybe. What did you have in mind? If it's going to be relatively short, I could play it during our feedback segment.

I was thinking no more than 5 minutes or so, but I could keep it down to whatever length you need it to be. I'll have another listen to the episode to choose exactly which comments to respond to, but off the top of my head, I'm thinking of addressing the whole "first conlang feel" that (I think) Will mentioned, which would also include the lexicon's containing a number of English relexes. I'd be glad to go over my responses with you via Skype before recording. (On that note, recording would have to happen no earlier than this coming Saturday, as I'll be out of town until then.)

[Ollock]

Hmm, maybe. What did you have in mind? If it's going to be relatively short, I could play it during our feedback segment.

I was thinking no more than 5 minutes or so, but I could keep it down to whatever length you need it to be. I'll have another listen to the episode to choose exactly which comments to respond to, but off the top of my head, I'm thinking of addressing the whole "first conlang feel" that (I think) Will mentioned, which would also include the lexicon's containing a number of English relexes. I'd be glad to go over my responses with you via Skype before recording. (On that note, recording would have to happen no earlier than this coming Saturday, as I'll be out of town until then.)

No problem with that here. I'm taking the GRE Saturday, so I figure it's probably best if I limit my time commitments until next week.

[Jadyndar]

Hmm, maybe. What did you have in mind? If it's going to be relatively short, I could play it during our feedback segment.

I was thinking no more than 5 minutes or so, but I could keep it down to whatever length you need it to be. I'll have another listen to the episode to choose exactly which comments to respond to, but off the top of my head, I'm thinking of addressing the whole "first conlang feel" that (I think) Will mentioned, which would also include the lexicon's containing a number of English relexes. I'd be glad to go over my responses with you via Skype before recording. (On that note, recording would have to happen no earlier than this coming Saturday, as I'll be out of town until then.)

No problem with that here. I'm taking the GRE Saturday, so I figure it's probably best if I limit my time commitments until next week.

Sounds reasonable to me. You'll get my Skype name shortly.

[finlay]

I am L1 English, actually. I just happen to also have Asperger's (and, coincidentally, an elementary-school classmate once told me I sounded Russian, despite my not having any Slavic ancestry at all). Any ‹j› for ‹y› typos in the dictionary are just the result of my most recent orthography update, when I changed the grapheme for Gomain /ʏ/ to ‹y› and consequently had to change /j/ to ‹j›. I just forgot to restrict the Find & Replace in Word to boldface text, so some English words got messed up. Thanks for pointing that typo out, though.

(emphasis mine)

This reminds me -- I really would like someone to do a demographic study of the conlanging community to confirm whether certain groups are overrepresented in the conlanging community:

1) homosexuals (particularly homosexual men)
2) people with autism spectrum disorders
3) atheists

I think it would be very interesting to have the data and actually be able to tell whether my perceptions are correct on that.

If you do do it, try not to use the word "homosexual".

"LGBT people (particularly gay men)"

You would also be well-equipped to survey the male/female split, since we have far more men than women. And then see if it correlates with the ratio between gay men and lesbians. (ie if someone is gay, are they more likely to be a man or a woman than they would be if they were not?)

[Ossicone]

Congratulations, Bianca! May all your days and years be rich, healthy, and enjoyed by you.

have nice days and be well.

Thanks!

[Ollock]

If you do do it, try not to use the word "homosexual".

"LGBT people (particularly gay men)"

You would also be well-equipped to survey the male/female split, since we have far more men than women. And then see if it correlates with the ratio between gay men and lesbians. (ie if someone is gay, are they more likely to be a man or a woman than they would be if they were not?)

Is homosexual offensive now? Yes, LGBT is more inclusive, of course, but I consider "homosexual" as a detached clinical term (though I have heard people use it insultingly.

In any case, I was in no way proposing to do the survey myself. For one, I have no idea whatsoever how to go about it, since the community exists mostly online and the numbers are small and uncertain. I was suggesting it in hopes that someone who does demographic studies would actually do it.

[finlay]

If you do do it, try not to use the word "homosexual".

"LGBT people (particularly gay men)"

You would also be well-equipped to survey the male/female split, since we have far more men than women. And then see if it correlates with the ratio between gay men and lesbians. (ie if someone is gay, are they more likely to be a man or a woman than they would be if they were not?)

Is homosexual offensive now? Yes, LGBT is more inclusive, of course, but I consider "homosexual" as a detached clinical term

this is exactly why it is offensive. Remember it comes from a time when it was classified as a psychological disorder and they tried to 'cure' people with electroshock therapy. Also, http://revealingerrors.com/tyson_homosexual

More modern detached clinical terms that aren't as controversial include MSMs (men who have sex with men) or same-sex relationships (as opposed to homosexual relationships).

[Jipí]

[cynical] Semantic treadmill, yaaaaaaaaaaaay [/cynical]

[Ollock]

Is homosexual offensive now? Yes, LGBT is more inclusive, of course, but I consider "homosexual" as a detached clinical term

this is exactly why it is offensive. Remember it comes from a time when it was classified as a psychological disorder and they tried to 'cure' people with electroshock therapy. Also, http://revealingerrors.com/tyson_homosexual

More modern detached clinical terms that aren't as controversial include MSMs (men who have sex with men) or same-sex relationships (as opposed to homosexual relationships).[/quote]

Could this be partially a regional thing? In my (admittedly limited) experience with LGBT people here in the US, I've never heard anyone specifically mention that they take offense at the term. I suppose I should ask Will about it, and track down a few other gay acquaintances to ask directly.

[finlay]

It's not offensive per se, but more of one that makes people uncomfortable, and is vastly outranked by any other terms. It could be a regional thing, maybe (although the Tyson Homosexual example is from an American organisation).

Also, even if you do want to use a scientific term for it, I don't think this is the place, to be honest.

[Nannalu]

Wait, wait, wait.

How is "homosexual" offensive? It just means a love/lust for the same sex. What else would we call homosexuals in a formal way? Gays, fags, dykes?

This is why we have watch whatever we say nowadays, I can't even say "black" without getting stared at.

[finlay]

it's PC GONE MAD isn't it

It makes me uncomfortable because of the way it's used and has been used, and that's it. It's not necessarily a feeling shared by all other "gay people" or "LGBT people", but few if any of them that I know actually use the word "homosexual".

this is the general idea:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/mind-yo ... homosexual

[Nannalu]

it's PC GONE MAD isn't it

It makes me uncomfortable because of the way it's used and has been used, and that's it. It's not necessarily a feeling shared by all other "gay people" or "LGBT people", but few if any of them that I know actually use the word "homosexual".

Well, I suppose. I would use it in forms and stuff but I would never say to a friend or someone I'm meeting first hand, "oh, I'm homosexual". I'd most likely say gay.

[Risla]

I've never seen issue with "homosexual" used as an adjective, but I've definitely got derogatory (religious) connotations for the use of it as a noun.