Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #94: Face and Politeness)

[Ollock]

Wow, now if we can get more scripts that look as nice as those, we'll be in business. I'd also like a little diversity of aesthetics and form -- I know that there are some logographies out there that would be fun.

[clawgrip]

Wow, now if we can get more scripts that look as nice as those, we'll be in business. I'd also like a little diversity of aesthetics and form -- I know that there are some logographies out there that would be fun.

I'll make some up for you in a couple of my languages later on.

[Jipí]

The same as I posted last night again, but done properly.

[Sortsdam]

Here is conlang in the Klai language. It is pronounced [pˡəːsa̰ː ɟlĩək̚ sʉð̞]

Click the image for a high-def version



Or this one

[clawgrip]

How's this?



Kangwauswa'iap /kaŋ.wɔ̰.swa.iə̯p̚/

[clawgrip]

A couple other languages of mine:

Marag:

Weng Weno Menyyeken /wɛŋ.ɡwɛˈnɒʊ̯ mɛnˈnjɛ.kɛn/build PAS.GEN language-INDF

Hwagak:

Wéng Wén Ŕinggén /ˈweŋ.wen ˈɹɨŋ.ɡen/ build PAS language-INDF

Roojee:

Wathengag Xib Ken /ˈwä.θeŋ.ɡäɡ ˈxib ken/ be.built-ATT language INDF

Beeba:

Tiimbeekhyáyek Ribhwúnuk Dzím /lʊs.tɪ.ɪm.bɛ.ɛˈkʰjä.jɛk rɪˈbʱu.nʊk ˈʣɪm/ construct.PAS.GEN language.GEN art

All four languages and scripts are related to each other, hence the similarity.

Sorry they're a little long.

[Jipí]

Also. Man, I speak one of those languages that's usually quoted as an example for discourse particles natively (i.e. German), but don't you think it's occurred to me to consciously include any in my conlang. Mostly because those words are usually left out in writing (except maybe in dialogs) because they're perceived as superfluous and basically empty of meaning. As William said, they don't change the truth condition of statements, but give subtle hints about a speaker's attitude or expectation.

[finlay]

I find the discourse particles very prevalent in Japanese... some of the Japanese staff that I work with insert them randomly when they're speaking English - they're clearly important, but perhaps they don't know an appropriate way to replicate their use in English.

I also once met a german guy who inserted the german "also" before every sentence when speaking english...

[Ollock]

I find the discourse particles very prevalent in Japanese... some of the Japanese staff that I work with insert them randomly when they're speaking English - they're clearly important, but perhaps they don't know an appropriate way to replicate their use in English.

I also once met a german guy who inserted the german "also" before every sentence when speaking english...

My Taiwanese sister-in-law will insert Chinese particles, though I think it's mostly a playful thing. Though I wonder if this tendency is common. I have consciously remember to replace English hesitation markers with native ones when speaking Chinese or Spanish. Also, there is the whole phenomenon of Singlish discourse particles derived from various Chinese languages.

[clawgrip]

I find the discourse particles very prevalent in Japanese... some of the Japanese staff that I work with insert them randomly when they're speaking English - they're clearly important, but perhaps they don't know an appropriate way to replicate their use in English.

Really? That's odd. I work with many Japanese, Chinese/Taiwanese and Korean people and never hear discourse particles inserted, aside from possibly ne from time to time. I don't think I've ever heard anyone use anything else.

[Ollock]

Just so people know, there is a new banner live for the Conlangery site, and my new album art should start showing up on the feed soon (so far it hasn't changed, but I think I made it work). If people still want to submit their translations, go ahead -- I may tinker with the logo and banner in the coming weeks until it totally suits me.

[Ollock]

clawgrip, what is the name of the language with the logography? Also, if I get more submissions I may remove one of yours, since I just realized I used two of your scripts. Just so you know.

[Whimemsz]

One correction on the most recent episode: Makah and "Nootka" are both Southern Wakashan languages, but they aren't dialects of the same language. I'm not sure to what extent perhaps there's a dialect chain thing going on in Southern Wakashan, but the dissertation you guys are discussing clearly identifies them as two separate languages. Also, note that "Nootka" is the older name; the preferred modern name is Nuuchahnulth.

[The dictionary at the end is of Makah]

[clawgrip]

clawgrip, what is the name of the language with the logography? Also, if I get more submissions I may remove one of yours, since I just realized I used two of your scripts. Just so you know.

The name of that language is Himmaswa.

Feel free to add or remove them as you please. I just put up a few to gave you some options.

[finlay]

I find the discourse particles very prevalent in Japanese... some of the Japanese staff that I work with insert them randomly when they're speaking English - they're clearly important, but perhaps they don't know an appropriate way to replicate their use in English.

Really? That's odd. I work with many Japanese, Chinese/Taiwanese and Korean people and never hear discourse particles inserted, aside from possibly ne from time to time.

That's basically exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. I should note that I don't tend to hear it from those who are actually trying to learn English, only those whose English isn't particularly high-level and aren't actively trying to learn it; they're more just using it because they have to, and it's not necessarily "important" for them to get it "right". One or two of them do it a lot more than others. Like the other day I was talking to one of them and she added desu yo on the end of her sentence, presumably because the English equivalent, perhaps something like y'know didn't come to mind.

[Lyhoko Leaci]

Ancaron: (Do I need to email it too, or is just here okay?)


Sidanaspotcor
[ʃɪˈdanasˈpotkoɚ]
si-create-language
Siconlang
Err.. "Related to conlangs" ... more or less.

Huh, post 666...

[Ollock]

(Do I need to email it too, or is just here okay?)..

Please do. Now that I've made the album art, I'd like new submissions to be all in one place so I can go through them quickly. I may include yours -- it is an interesting one.

[Jipí]

Oh BTW, Trent Pehrson has some cool scripts on his website. Maybe you could ask him if he might want to contribute something for the new Conlangery header image/album art?

And another one in Ayeri, in an old conscript of mine:

[Ollock]

OK, I am done with the new album art. I refuse to edit it any more. So here it is:


You can see an expanation of the languages depicted here: http://conlangery.com/2012/03/15/this-i ... t-for-now/ and a little of the evolution of it over the past couple days in this blog post: http://conlangery.com/2012/03/13/new-al ... te-banner/ To be honest, some previous versions looked better, but I wanted to put in the one vertical script. Hence my saying that I may work on tighting things up visually. Although I have no plans to add scripts to the album art, you can still submit for the site header. Making it a random header means I can put any number of scripts on there (so long as I don't run out of storage, which I probably won't), though realize that it does take me a little time to put together a header image.

Thanks to everyone who contributed!

EDIT: Dangit Jipi, NOW you give me cursive vertical. Ah well, I'll see if I can fit it into the header nicely later, but I can't promise anything (btw, I sent you an email about your other script).

Sorry to be so crabby. I couldn't sleep at all last night, and I've gotten sick of re-editing that stupid album art. I should have waited a few days for submissions to come in, but I was a dumbass.

[Jipí]

EDIT: Dangit Jipi, NOW you give me cursive vertical. Ah well, I'll see if I can fit it into the header nicely later, but I can't promise anything (btw, I sent you an email about your other script).

Nevermind. And I don't think vertical scripts will fit into the header well, since it basically demands horizontal things. Or you have way too much space on either side. Once people have sent you enough examples, you could make a similar collage for the header as with the album art, like you had it as first, except filling out the whole space. Something like what Wordle produces might look neat.

[Ollock]

EDIT: Dangit Jipi, NOW you give me cursive vertical. Ah well, I'll see if I can fit it into the header nicely later, but I can't promise anything (btw, I sent you an email about your other script).

Nevermind. And I don't think vertical scripts will fit into the header well, since it basically demands horizontal things. Or you have way too much space on either side. Once people have sent you enough examples to fill out the whole space, you could make a similar collage for the header as with the album art, like you had it as first. Something like what Wordle produces might look good.

That's a cool idea. I was initially trying to go for the "word cloud" look. I'm sorry I snapped at you there. Maybe some time in the future I'll feel like adding a couple more scripts to the album art. I just got tired of it after a while, plus sleep deprivation has made me cranky. Just so people know, I wasn't able to sleep last night -- at all. My sleep cycle gets screwed up every once in a while this way.

As far as my current header's problems with vertical script -- well, I have a few different reasons that I might want to change my Wordpress theme (the dang search box is annoying as well). But there's other features that I want to keep, and I don't really have the skills to customize my theme.

[Jipí]

But there's other features that I want to keep, and I don't really have the skills to customize my theme.

As far as I can see, you're not using any special features that wouldn't be covered by default widgets and menus, so nothing much should be lost if you changed your theme. You might only need to backup custom-text widgets and drag-and-drop them in place again as desired and tell Wordpress the items you want in your page navigation, but that's all drag-and-drop and menu driven as well. The only thing you might need to put back in by hand is the spam protection on the comment form (possibly one line of code effectively saying "Generate captcha here"). The file that processes the comments should be in your theme's folder. All markup in Wordpress is effectively done with a theme's style.css. How you make child themes so that your changes won't be lost if your theme updates is described here. It's really not that difficult.

[Ollock]

But there's other features that I want to keep, and I don't really have the skills to customize my theme.

As far as I can see, you're not using any special features that wouldn't be covered by default widgets and menus, so nothing much should be lost if you changed your theme. You might only need to backup custom-text widgets and drag-and-drop them in place again as desired and tell Wordpress the items you want in your page navigation, but that's all drag-and-drop and menu driven as well. The only thing you might need to put back in by hand is the spam protection on the comment form (possibly one line of code effectively saying "Generate captcha here"). The file that processes the comments should be in your theme's folder. All markup in Wordpress is effectively done with a theme's style.css. How you make child themes so that your changes won't be lost if your theme updates is described here. It's really not that difficult.

Thanks. Actually the spam protection is a plugin, and the suggestions form is really just an embedded Google Docs form. I'll look at that page later and see if I can work things out.

[Ollock]

Hey, I was too excited about this to wait until a recording: I have a new microphone. Sound sample here: http://soundcloud.com/gacorley/blue

[Jipí]

Sound sample here: http://soundcloud.com/gacorley/blue

Yes, your voice is a lot clearer now. Nice.