Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

[Radius Solis]

Most of the town names on the old dialect map are in need only of switching to Delta spelling. Here they all are:


Pu'a = Pu'a
Rèjai = Rëya
Mospiñor = Mospiñor
Ngolo = Ñolo
Buruja = Buruya
Ja'n = Ya'n
Lujosja = Luyosha
Nìddola = Nïddola
Momuva'e = Momuva'e
Kèspi = Këspi
Momeddo = Momïddo
Pawe = Påwe

The Aiwa is now the Ya; Kasca is still Kasca; Huyfarah is Puivara; Faralo is called Paralo.

[zompist]

Thanks, Radius. Just to confirm, is the grammar here the up to date one?

http://wiki.frath.net/Naidda

[Radius Solis]

Yes.

However, for the sake of having everything in one place, a couple weeks back I moved the grammar to http://wiki.penguindeskjob.com/Delta_Naidda and I will change the frathnet page into a link to that one.

[dunomapuka]

Some questions for Zetler/pocketful: Impressive work on Proto-Central-Talo-Edastean. But I'm wondering how exactly the family is split up: It looks like you've got Tlaliolz, Habeo and Edastean as one part of the superfamily, but the language of Antagg is coming off another node. But the Antagg are situated in the upper Bwimbai, while the Habeo are further out to the northwest. If any of the four groups is the outlier, it should be Habeo rather than Antagg. But I would prefer if all four branches were co-equal and the family could just be called "Talo-Edastean." What do you think?

Also, how does Qedik fit into this scheme?

Also, what are your thoughts on the evolution from this proto-language to Ndak Ta? What are the sound changes? Should we assume major Ngauro influence along the way?

[Radius Solis]

Well, if we want Habeo to be a recent branch instead of a far-distant branch, then I guess we'll need to have sound changes. Were it me I'd still eschew any protolanging and call the connection with Habeo too far back to reconstruct, but I can see it's going a different way now. That's alright really, but I definitely still think it's the Habeo that should be the first to split away, from an era before the proto-Talo-Ndak settled the Bwimbai. Then we can model our nomenclature after the Algonquian situation: Yurok and Wiyot split away so long ago that even though they form the Algic family together with Algonquian, the latter remains by far the most-mentioned name.

Also, if the Habeo-Talo-Edastean connection was before the T-E group settled in the Bwimbai, then the ultimate urheimat should be west of the Bwimbai rather than east. Therefore there should be little or zero Ngauro influence from that early; the Ngauro were a long, long away away in Kasadgad.

[A pocketful of songs.]

#12, PCTE as proto-Talo-Edastean would be okay by me, but I didn't do that because I wouldn't want to ask Sal to throw out what he's done on Antaggic to derive it from PTE. Still, I don't think having the pre-Antagg on the Bwimbai and PCTE on the mid/lower Aiwa, then having the pre-Habeo migrate up the Aiwa at the front of the Edastean push west would disrupt established history.

Sal, if you don't have anything on Antaggic or little enough that you wouldn't mind getting rid of it or modifying it a great deal, please let us know.

PCTE ➝ Ndak Ta:
- b: ➝ bw / _ or not
- [+plosive]: ➝ [+nasal][+plosive +voice] / _
- q ➝ k / _
- [+plosive] ➝ [+plosive +voice] / [+vowel]_[+vowel]
- h ➝ j / {{a, [+front]}_, _{a, [+front]}} or not
- h ➝ w / {{a, [+back]}_, _{a, [+back]}} or not
- hm ➝ w / _
- l ➝ r / _
- s ➝ l / _
- h ➝ 0 / {[+plosive]_, _[+plosive]}
- h ➝ s/ _
- a: ➝ a, ai / _
- o(:) ➝ o, u, au / _
- u(:) ➝ o, u / _
- i(:) ➝ e, i / _
- e(:) ➝ e, i / _
- ə: ➝ a / _ or not
- ə(:) ➝ 0 / _
- t: ➝ ts / _
- [+vowel]ɴ ➝ [+vowel +nasalization] / _

In grammar,
- the verb's preverbs, negation, and finals have become separate words;
- verbal initials have been lost;
- nouns' adjectival prefixes have become separate words;
- there's a class of determiners with some former prefixes,
- with articles, including former 3rd p. inhuman pron. su (now lu) as the definite;
- these articles take case/number inflection;
- a formal second person has been added;
- collective nouns have merged with the mass nouns;
- obligatorily possessed nouns have lost that distinction;
- the possessive suffixes have been lost;
- the future in -hi has been lost;
- verbs got subject agreement;
- many erg. vbs. became accusative;
and probably some more, but that's what I can think of.

Also, the PCTE words for chair, house, bed, reeds, door, fence, wall, arrow, bow (n.), attack, deer, turtle, horse, and tree have been lost in NT or undergone semantic drifts that made them not common enough to be in the documentation.

So, Ngauro, if possible, should maybe have some of those. I don't know if the influence needs to be terribly strong, as that doesn't seem to me like too extreme a set of changes for like 1,500 yrs or whatever it is.

[Radius Solis]

In fact, let me propose this as our timeline:

-3500: the proto-H-T-E are a diverse and thinly-spread people occupying much of the Eiwel Gouron.
-3300: two dialect regions have emerged, western and eastern HTE.
-3000: the eastern HTE have fully settled the Bwimbai valley.
-2800: Bwimbai group begin to prosper as a settled people and come to absorb non-Bwimbai eastern HTE folk. They no longer see themselves as being a single people with the still-nomadic westerners (who are the proto-Habeo).
-2500: There is no more "eastern HTE" outside the Bwimbai. Bwimbai people are now proto-Talo-Edastean and have diverged into three ethnolinguistic regions: northern, central, and southern, along the river.
-2400: Ngauro occupy the Aiwa as far as the Bwimbai; they control the southern proto-Talo-Edastean but not the central or northern.
-2300: Ngauro rule of this area ends. Their subjects on the southern Bwimbai are now a distinct and somewhat more civilized group, the pre-Ndak, who found their own little kingdom at the confluence of the Bwimbai with the Aiwa, Latsomo.
-2200: Ndak dominance of Latsomo alienates northern and central Talo-Edasteans. The latter, the pre-Tlaliolz, begin moving into the forests and hills east of the Bwimbai in order to escape Ndak rule. And the northern group has by this time developed their own distinct identity as the Andagg. Ndak conquer Kasadgad.
-2000: Ndak dominance of both Latsomo and Kasadgad is entrenched and secure. Their capital moves to Kasadgad and the Akan dynasty (Tsinakan etc.) begins. The Tlaliolz are now pretty isolated in their forest and the Andagg continue to escape Ndak control.
-1900: Tsinakan.

[Corumayas]

Hmm. Mr pocketful, I'm confused by your list of changes. For one thing, the sound changes are listed out of order, which makes it difficult to see what becomes what. For another, this one

- [+plosive]: ➝ [+nasal][+plosive +voice] / _

is either very unlikely or is notated wrong: as I read it, it says that all plosives become clusters of nasal + voiced plosive, in all positions. (Also

- h ➝ s/ _

seems kind of unlikely to me--is it attested anywhere?--but that's not such a problem). Almost all the changes are unconditioned, which is ok for an initial sketch of correspondences but unlikely to be true when you look at the changes in detail. And the various changes followed by "or not"... well, sound changes aren't really as exceptionless as the Neo-Grammarians want them to be, but obviously some more work is needed if that's really what you've got there.

As for the grammatical changes, I think it's unlikely for affixes to become separate words (though that's been done in the relay before). Maybe my instincts here are wrong (I haven't really studied the subject at all), but I imagine grammaticalization as pretty much a one-way street.

My suggestion is that you re-imagine your PCTE as Proto-epi-Habeo, or Proto-Western-Habeo-Edastean, or something. In other words, as a sister (or aunt) to proto-Andagg, proto-Edak, and proto-Talo rather than their ancestor. That way you can keep the correspondences just as they are: the changes that I think are unrealistic diachronically are mostly just fine as correspondences between sister langs. Plus, you can leave the relationships to the other branches (Andagg and Talo) open, and the time depth of the whole family can be greater.

In any case, I don't think you can put your proto-lang's speakers on the lower Aiwa in the fourth millenium, because it's already occupied by proto-Eige-Valley (--> Ngauro and proto-Miwan) speakers.

I don't know yet what the Ngauro words for

chair, house, bed, reeds, door, fence, wall, arrow, bow (n.), attack, deer, turtle, horse, and tree

are; maybe some of them can be back-derived from Ndak Ta as loans (like I've already done with a few words like "city" and "king"). On the other hand, there are words for some of those things in Miwan and Faraghin, and I'd prefer to use cognates as much as possible. In any case, I'm not going to decide that just now, and it'll obviously depend on whether the Ndak Ta words are even possible words in Ngauro, as well as how much I like them, etc.

[dunomapuka]

Hmm. Mr pocketful, I'm confused by your list of changes. For one thing, the sound changes are listed out of order, which makes it difficult to see what becomes what. For another, this one

- [+plosive]: ? [+nasal][+plosive +voice] / _

is either very unlikely or is notated wrong: as I read it, it says that all plosives become clusters of nasal + voiced plosive, in all positions.

You missed the colon: It's long plosives that do this.

And the various changes followed by "or not"... well, sound changes aren't really as exceptionless as the Neo-Grammarians want them to be, but obviously some more work is needed if that's really what you've got there.

I assumed this meant that we're going so far back into the past that the conditioning rules are murky. Of course, this presents a problem with the epistemology of our conworld: Haven't we just been treating everything as known? We've been describing proto-langs in full detail without worrying what the Akanians themselves would be able to reconstruct, and we have not been working from the vantage point of a fixed "present." So I propose to continue in this vein: We, the Akanologists, are omniscient with regards to this world, and terming things "proto-languages" is a matter of convenience -- they aren't actually reconstructions from our perspective (and thus, the sound changes should be specific, yes).

[A pocketful of songs.]

h ➝ s / _ seems kind of unlikely to me--is it attested anywhere?

Maybe h ➝ ç ➝ ʃ ➝ s or such.

I assumed this meant that we're going so far back into the past that the conditioning rules are murky.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Of course, this presents a problem with the epistemology of our conworld: Haven't we just been treating everything as known? We've been describing proto-langs in full detail without worrying what the Akanians themselves would be able to reconstruct, and we have not been working from the vantage point of a fixed "present." So I propose to continue in this vein: We, the Akanologists, are omniscient with regards to this world, and terming things "proto-languages" is a matter of convenience -- they aren't actually reconstructions from our perspective (and thus, the sound changes should be specific, yes).

If that's what we do, I can think of three options of what to do about it: have PCTE not be Ndak Ta's ancestor, just Habeo's and maybe other macro-Edastean families'; discard PCTE for a more precise reconstruction or heavily modify it to be one; or have PCTE be outside the conworld and only as a device for deriving from, not anything we're claiming was actually spoken.

[Corumayas]

You missed the colon: It's long plosives that do this.

OH... that makes a lot more sense.

I assumed this meant that we're going so far back into the past that the conditioning rules are murky. Of course, this presents a problem with the epistemology of our conworld: Haven't we just been treating everything as known? We've been describing proto-langs in full detail without worrying what the Akanians themselves would be able to reconstruct, and we have not been working from the vantage point of a fixed "present." So I propose to continue in this vein: We, the Akanologists, are omniscient with regards to this world, and terming things "proto-languages" is a matter of convenience -- they aren't actually reconstructions from our perspective (and thus, the sound changes should be specific, yes).

I'm not entirely sure about this. Our descriptions of proto-langs do tend to be more complete and certain than is usual with real reconstructions; on the other hand at least some of them do talk about reconstruction issues, including conflicting reconstructions of the phoneme inventories for proto-Peninsular and proto-Hitatc. And the gaps in history are sometimes explained as gaps in historians' knowledge (e.g. what Radius wrote on the wiki about "Dark Age" Kasca last week). Either we're in between somewhere (we sometimes know more than Akanians probably could, but we don't know everything), or we're being inconsistent.

Well, I suppose it's the latter. To fix that, having an official position on this sounds like a good thing; but I'm not sure how I'd rather have it. It makes sense that we'd want to know and describe as much as possible, regardless of what Akanians might be able to figure out (especially about language diachronics, since that's the core of this project). But it's also interesting to create proto-langs that actually look like reconstructions (as I've been somewhat trying to do with PEI).

I guess an alternate proposal might be to declare a point of view "present" for Akana, but it'd have to be at the time of the last links in the long chains, probably somewhere in the fourth millenium...

If that's what we do, I can think of three options of what to do about it: have PCTE not be Ndak Ta's ancestor, just Habeo's and maybe other macro-Edastean families'; discard PCTE for a more precise reconstruction or heavily modify it to be one; or have PCTE be outside the conworld and only as a device for deriving from, not anything we're claiming was actually spoken.

I guess I'm repeating myself, but of those I really prefer the first option. It would be a shame to discard the work you've done, but I think this lang makes the most sense as a sister to the other Talo-Edastean langs. (Aside from whatever work Salmoneus may already have done, another thing that's in the back of my mind is that I think Radius once had a sketch or wordlist for Tlaliolz, and I'd like us to be able to use it again if it's ever recovered....)

[Cedh]

My suggestion is that you re-imagine your PCTE as Proto-epi-Habeo, or Proto-Western-Habeo-Edastean, or something. In other words, as a sister (or aunt) to proto-Andagg, proto-Edak, and proto-Talo rather than their ancestor. That way you can keep the correspondences just as they are: the changes that I think are unrealistic diachronically are mostly just fine as correspondences between sister langs. Plus, you can leave the relationships to the other branches (Andagg and Talo) open, and the time depth of the whole family can be greater.

Quoted for agreement.

[A pocketful of songs.]

My suggestion is that you re-imagine your PCTE as Proto-epi-Habeo, or Proto-Western-Habeo-Edastean, or something. ...

Quoted for agreement.

Done.

[Corumayas]

Ah, cool, that works.

I'm at a point where I really can't afford to spend much time on conlanging for a while (I'm moving across the country in about a month), so I'm going to open the Eige-Isthmus family up so others can work on it if they want. I'll try to wikify everything I've done so far in the next few days. In addition to what's already on the wiki, I have:

-a combined Miwan wordlist
-more ideas about sound changes, including probable vowel correspondences
-some general ideas about grammar

I was hoping to combine the Miwan and Proto-Isthmus wordlists to get a PEI lexicon, but the sound changes aren't complete enough yet to work out all the proto-forms. (One issue is that the Miwan langs are said to be tonal, so some reading up on tonogenesis is probably a prerequisite for working more on Miwan sound changes.)

I'd still like to reserve Ngauro for myself to do later, though.

[Corumayas]

I don't have time to format this nicely or wikify it, so I'll just copy-paste it here. This, the list of roots on the Proto-Isthmus page, and the list of possible cognates on the Eige-Isthmus Languages page, constitute the total vocabulary for the EI family so far. If anyone wants to design more of PEI or Proto-Miwan or Proto-Isthmus, you now have pretty much all the data there is on them.

There are three languages represented here. Old Eastern Miwan dates from around 0 YP and was the source of loans in Naidda. Eastern Miwan is its descendant from around 1000 YP and loaned into Puoni. Forest Miwan loaned into Pencek throughout the first millenium.

The lexemes are given in SAMPA. These langs have tone and/or phonation too, but that isn't worked out yet; it probably interacts/correlates with vowel length somehow.

(Asterisks mark roots or affixes I've identified from words that appear to be derived. Question marks indicate uncertain glosses.)

Combined Miwan Lexicon

lexeme language gloss

a:ltiw Forest n. belly
a:nda: Forest adj. terrible
arazja Forest n. birch tree
aska:r Forest adj. haunted
askini: Forest adj. painful
asku Forest adj. polite
aspi:ga Forest n. corner
asti:sat Forest n. vagina
atilka Forest adj. ugly
azbu:tal Forest n. toothache

bizgi: Forest v. sacrifice
bju:zga Old Eastern n. a legendary creature that eats people
bli:n Forest n. worm
blita Forest v. kneel
*bu:r Old Eastern v. shine
bu:rju Old Eastern n. "shine-er", dragonfly

dje:zuf Old Eastern n. amber (prob. < Ngauro loan)
dimbal Forest n. wife (vulgar)
di:ndi:n Forest n. metal
ditisu Forest int. "goodbye"
di:za: Forest v. wilt
dre:Xurfi: Old Eastern n. "flow-together speech", chorus; harmony
dwa:d Forest adj. ready
dwa:s Forest n. chest
*dwe:su Old Eastern v. participate
dwe:suXati Old Eastern n. "not participating", misfit

ezdunda Old Eastern n. splinter

farka Forest n. chin
fa:lwin Eastern n. meeting place; a town of western Kuaguatia
famva Eastern n. rose
fa:Rili Eastern n. bad water; swamp
fi:kravwan Eastern n. ceremony
fja:ki Old Eastern v. copulate
fli:li: Forest int. (expression of sexual desire)
fli:s Forest n. hip
flu Forest adj. worthless (vulgar)
fra:m Eastern n. berry
fu:ftu: Forest n. evil, abomination
*fur both n. tree
furzin (Eastern), furzi:n (Forest) n. tree-life; elm
fwi:k Forest n. vagina; woman (vulgar; cf. 'cunt')
fwilja:n Eastern n. cooperation; teamwork
fwipju Eastern ?v. move, n. motion; alive

grunat Forest n. son
guljad Forest v. defeat
gu:s Forest v. behave, act
gwa: Forest v. use
gwastu Forest n. dump
gwa:?iti Old Eastern adj. "not important"

ibla Forest n. daisy
iki: Forest n. pivot, fulcrum
ili: Forest n. groin
ilka: Forest n. forearm
in Forest n. berry
i:nku:na: Forest n. disaster
intal Forest n. violence; adj. violent
ipra:f Forest adj. disgusting, disturbing
is Forest n. spouse
iskefli Old Eastern n. lice
isti: Forest v. have sex (vulgar)
i:tul Forest n. petal
iz Forest n. head

ja:rik Old Eastern n. twine, string
ja:seXi Old Eastern n. treaty, compact, accord
*jesk Old Eastern v. whistle
jeskju Old Eastern n. "whistle-er", songbird
-ju Old Eastern agent nominalizer
jun Forest n. thigh
jus Forest n. music

ka:fti:w Forest adj. dark
kaleste: Old Eastern adj. alive
ka:lma: Forest adj. confusing
ki: Forest int. "oh!"
kim Forest n. recipe, spell, algorithm, prescription
ki:mat Forest n. comprehension
ki:mul Forest n. branch
kimvatri Eastern n. brook, small stream
ki:Rnom Eastern n. robin
klu:n Forest n. wind
kuda:rm Forest adj. very bad (vulgar; cf. 'fucking')
kwaXjur Old Eastern n. measles
kwintas Forest n. bird
kwuli: Forest int. "thank you"

la:skurna: Forest n. wasting disease (any)
*le:p Old Eastern adj. black
le:psuru Old Eastern n. "black water", ink
li Forest n. song
li:fku:ti Forest v. roast
lufuk Forest n. pox, skin rash

*me Old Eastern v. boil
*me:g Old Eastern v. be loud, be rowdy
me:gju Old Eastern n. "noise maker"
mija: Eastern n. cat, feline
minka Forest n. kink
mi:ti: Forest n. note, chord (music)
miw Old Eastern n. Miw
mul Forest adj. oblivious

*ne:sju Old Eastern n. leg(s), ? < *ne:s + -ju
ne:sjuten Old Eastern n. "many legs", centipede
nidri: Forest v. feel warm towards
nidri:stu Forest v. regret
ni:glu Forest adj. feeble
ni:s Forest n. milk

*Nwe: Old Eastern v. give birth
Nwe:Xas Old Eastern v. "not give birth", miscarry

pa:lintu: Forest n. bellybutton
*pa:n Eastern n. music
pa:ntun Eastern n. music-red; guitar
pasta Forest n. cloth, fabric
pif Forest int. "tsk-tsk"
pjaza:r Eastern n. magnolia
plaj Eastern n. bead
pri:f Forest n. calf (of leg)
pru:n Eastern v. to buy
pu:ni:m Eastern ?v. burrow

*qwa: Old Eastern n. leaf
qwa:meti Old Eastern n. "leaf-boiling"; tea
qwe:san Old Eastern n. "leaf dream", drug trip (especially atropine)

ra:fa Forest n. penis (vulgar)
ragwi:k Forest n. gravel
rak Forest n. ankle
*re: Old Eastern v. speak
re:sti Old Eastern n "everyone speaking"
ru:mu:t Forest adj. rotten
ruz Forest n. cold, flu

Ramkuri (Eastern), rakuri: (Forest) n. oak

*(i)san Old Eastern ?n. or v. dream
*sa:v Old Eastern ?reciprocal particle
sa:vre:Xati Old Eastern n. "not speaking to each other"
sla:m Forest n. crippled person (vulgar; cf. 'retard')
sli:nga Forest adj. uncertain
*suru Old Eastern n. water
su:tra: Forest v. lose, misplace
su:Xeflu Old Eastern n. bladder, sack, bag
swa: Forest v. burp

talgu: Forest v. remember
ta:mal Eastern n. cliff, bluff
-ten Old Eastern "many, much"
*te:sen Old Eastern ?v. be like a beehive...
te:senju Old Eastern n. beehive
-ti Old Eastern action nominalizer
ti: both ?adj. funny
timpi:za Eastern n. necklace
ti:nda Forest adj. pleasant
ti:vur both n. funny-tree; hickory
ti?ak Old Eastern n. spiderweb
tjerizme Old Eastern n. pine pitch
*traf Old Eastern n. fire
traften Old Eastern n. "much fire", bonfire
trak Forest n. feast
*tu Old Eastern ?n. number, v. count
tu:l Eastern n. acorn
tulka Forest n. cord, cable
*tun Eastern ?adj. red
tuntun Eastern n. red-red; a cardinal
tur Forest n. acorn
tuXas Old Eastern n. "no number", myriad, multitude
*twa:k Old Eastern ?v. fall down
twa:ksuru Old Eastern n. "fall-down-water", waterfall
twa:na Forest v. screw over (vulgar)
twa:nka Forest n. gold
*twi Old Eastern adj. hot
twi:m Forest n. chant
twiXas Old Eastern ?adj. "not hot"
twuz Forest n. palm of the hand

uf Forest n. shit (vulgar)
upla:f Forest v. fry
urti Forest n. wall
urtim Forest n. yesterday
uslit Forest n. cheek
u:zbi: Forest adj. sticky

varja (Eastern), varja: (Forest) v. dance
vi:ntu: Forest n. shoulder
vi:zwal (Eastern), vi:zwar (Forest) n. pine or larch tree
vuf Forest n. personal honor
vu:ntuval Eastern n. grove; stand of trees; the largest town of Kuaguatia, in the south
vurka Forest n. snake
vuwan Eastern v. fall, drop

wifki: Forest n. mouse
wu: Forest int. "hi"

-Xas Old Eastern negation
*Xurfi: Old Eastern ?v. flow (together)

*za: Old Eastern v. die
zafwita: (Eastern), zafwi:ta (Forest) n. nest; a mess or tangle
za:ju Old Eastern n. "die-er": dead, broken
za:ska: Forest n. war
zi Forest n. apple
*zin (Eastern), *zi:n (Forest) n. life
zinti: Forest n. taboo
zugi:r Forest v. swallow
*zuka Eastern n. fruit
zukatun Eastern n. fruit-red; tomato
zuma Forest v. bite
zumi: Forest v. chew
zwi:ki Eastern n. moon; month

*-?i Old Eastern ?"-less", "un-...-able"

I might as well add some brief grammatical notes too. Based on some things that are said about Proto-Isthmus and its descendents, I believe the family is postpositional, probably with SOV and GN word orders in at least Proto-Isthmus. (Adjectives could come before nouns though.) PI also has an animate/inanimate distinction in its pronouns, and case marked by prefixes; both could easily apply to nouns too. Affixes may be mostly derivational rather than inflectional... I'd like to have a particularly rich set of derivational processes for this family.

Also, I was thinking about having PEI be a mood-prominent language, where verbs have a basic realis/irrealis distinction, with various aspects marked by particles or something, and no tense marking. This could evolve into a future/nonfuture tense system in some daughterlangs. I don't know enough yet about mood-prominence to do a good job with such a system though.


Unrelatedly: the current Ghaf page is going to go down soon, since I'm moving and cancelling my local web service. I'll put it up again when I have a chance; as far as I know nobody is working on a descendant of it so I don't think it should inconvenience anyone if it's gone for a few weeks.

[kodé]

BUMP.

I'm just wondering what's happening with this project. Is it in stasis, or should I assume people are working on their own individual parts?

For myself, I've been really busy with school, but have pretty much finished the sound changes from Proto-Western to Gezoro (late negative 3rd millenium YP). Hopefully I'll have a list of all the Gezoro words borrowed into Adata, along with their P-W roots, by the end of this week.

[Zhen Lin]

I've been thinking about other things lately. I don't think I could start conlang work again without feeling guilty about it until about July. But I'd very much like to continue.

[Legion]

Working on stuff. I'll have various issues to adress here in a few week.

[Corumayas]

I've just (in the last couple of days) started working on this stuff again, now that I'm moved. I shouldn't be spending a lot of time on it until I'm more settled; but I'm trying to tie up some of the many loose ends of PEI, and with luck I'll be able to start on Ngauro fairly soonish.

[Corumayas]

I just added a whole bunch of history from this thread to the timeline.

In the process of doing that, I ran across some stylistic issues, and it seems to me we should probably sort of standardize the way we do things on the wiki.

The major one is language: what version of the (sometimes many) names of various cities, regions, rivers, etc. should we use? Often we've been using the language of whatever group we're talking about at the time, so that the river is "Aiwa" in Ndak times, "Eigǝ" when we're talking about the Fáralo, and "Ēza" when we're writing from the Dāiadak point of view. The same happens to Kasadgad/Kasca, Latsomo/Axôltseubeu/Lašumu/Lasomo, Bwimbai/Boíǝba/Ziphē, Gauron Emwel/Eiwǝl Gourun/Xōron Eiel, Momïddo/Miǝdu, Påwe/Palge, Nkeladadn/Ngahêxôldod/Enčélade/Akeladada/Akelodo... I think it's clear that we need to decide on a standard way to handle this, if only to keep things from getting too confusing.

[Zhen Lin]

Hmmm, is it really a problem? The use of different names in different periods of history is probably not unprecedented in the real world. For example, Koryŏ and Korea refer to approximately the same geographic area but Koryŏ also indicates a specific period of history. However, I agree that it can get confusing.

Because the "present" is ever-moving even in the conworld, it would probably be difficult to use "modern" names to refer to entities (geographical, political and otherwise) - so perhaps a suitable classical language?

[Dewrad]

The major one is language: what version of the (sometimes many) names of various cities, regions, rivers, etc. should we use?

Well. During the original relay, we tended to use the Faralo names, given that they were the dominant power during that period. In private conversations with Radius, we've tended to use the Ndak Ta names for the Aiwa Valley and Adata terms for the Rathedan area- were the idea of the original relay not to reconstruct Ndak Ta, I think we probably would have used the NT terms as "external" names.

For our purposes, I think the best thing to do would be to let a natural consensus evolve. For those areas in which we're generally focussed on the Adata period, I'd recommend using Adata names, and so on.

[dunomapuka]

I have been in stasis, suffering a sort of conlanger's block. Really, I've just been concentrating on other things, such as writing a screenplay. And school. So Namidu has stalled out. But, I assure you, more of it already exists than has been put online yet.

Waiting for a surge of inspiration.

[dunomapuka]

Having just said the project has stalled, I've now gone and filled in a bunch of stuff on Namɨdu. If I keep going at this pace, a more-or-less complete sketch should be up in a few days!

What remains is the syntax section and a complete Tsinakan text. The lexicon will indefinitely remain a work in progress, and I suppose will grow with each little bit we formulate about the history of surrounding cultures and languages. Other Fáralo dialects, Naidda and even Tlaliolz will play a role here.

[Radius Solis]

Syntax sections are always the killers. Notice that there is still none for Naidda, and even Zompist skimped on Faralo's. #12, I recommend that even if you do not get to finishing a syntax section soon, you still please post/publish whatever else you have of Namidu. Even with little or no mention of syntax, it will still be more than is provided for a number of other Akanalangs. And its not like you can't return to it later.

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OMG, Namidu looks awesome. I can't wait to see some text and lexicon for it! I can promise with absolute verity that I will toy with deriving a daughter from it. (Whether I get one actually published, and how extensive its description will be if I do, are another question...) Speaking of which, at some point I should return to Puoni. It's been almost a year now.