Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

[Zhen Lin]

I don't think it conflicts with the picture I had in mind for Peninsular. I think. Can I still have a rice culture there? Papyrus is probably out of the possibility though. Hrm. Maybe I'll have to use some other type of paper... but it seems papyrus is the least technologically advanced.

[Salmoneus]

Here's my impression of what the climate and vegetation would be like on the continent. It's quit an odd shape compared to real-life examples, so I've used a deductive method, which may give inductively odd results in some places

It is generally good. But, there are some specific areas depicted differently than we have already assumed in prior descriptions.

- the delta region of Kasca is forested; this forest should connect to the forest below it.

- Rathedan is forested only in river valleys, and only lightly. It's dry in summer, and wetter in winter.

- The upper Eige valley, east of Rathedan's longitud, is semi-arid steppe. So is the strip immediately east of the mountains just south of Rathedan - the Hitatc lands. All of these areas are in a major rainshadow.

- The big eastern islands should probably be wetter than that... I cannot think of any large mid-latitude islands on Earth that aren't naturally forested.

- I also think the Xsali lands should be much wetter than that, especially in summer and within a few hundred miles of the coast. A decent analog here should be the American South: a large pool of very warm water lies immediately below, which causes a lot of humidity to spread upwards into those regions in the summer. This makes for humid days and very frequent showers and thunderstorms in summer, and a relatively dry winter. The presence of the Gulf of Mexico is the main reason the American South isn't semi-arid or even desert, and I don't see any reason the same wouldn't apply here. The upper Tjakori river valley, say everything north of the big lake, should probably remain steppe, though.

OK, I’ll try to help you out:

- I can just about go with foresting the delta: indeed, that was my original idea before I tried to be more realistic.

- I'm not entirely clear about how this Rathedan rainshadow works. In the summer, you're going to have a high pressure area to the north and east of those mountains, and you're going to have a low pressure area to the south and west of them. The wet air from off the the sea to the east is going to flow over the mountains, dropping its water as rain.
I can go with maybe having the plains beneath the hills being the same grasslands as to the north, but I can't make the mountains semi-arid. Unless they're massively high - which would make the Hitatc area a swamp. The more southern, north-south mountains could probably be made drier, though.
If you want sensible climate, my advice would be to look at geology instead. If the hills of the Rathedan were mostly chalk or limestone, then it could well have dryish forests in the valleys and still have barren hills - just like the downs of southern England, a far wetter real life area. If the Rathedan has eroded less than the Weald, the 'hills' could be a larger proportion of the area, with only a few forested valleys breaking them up.


- OK, thinking about it, these areas only fall into this category at maximum summer, being very far north. So OK, maybe they could be a bit drier.
For the upper Aiwa, I could see semi-arid rainshadow IF those mountains to the west are very high (but then I don't see how the Gezoro cross two lots of them to get to the east). Otherwise, I'm skeptical - we're just not talking a very great distance. But OK, I can go with steppe.

BUT. It doesn't make sense at all to have that area be steppe and yet have the Rathedan have winter rainfall. In winter, rainclouds will generally pass over those mountains from the south-west, while cyclonic systems will pass over from the west. If these two factors aren't enough to stop one area being semi-arid, I don't see how there could be rain in the other.

- We don't have many large mid-latitude islands to go by. Thinking about it, though, most of those islands could probably have an ilectic forest of some kind (I tend to forget about them since they're mostly extinct on earth). These would be forests of things like holly, bay and laurel - evergeen, with leaves somewhere between ordinary and sclerophyllous in hardness. There would be brief wet and dry seasons, and would be mostly damp.
[On earth, much of the mediterranean climate was once covered by these forests, but as the dry season became longer and drier they were replaced. Now they only survive in a handful of places, like the canary isles]

- There are two massive differences between the American South and Xsali. First, the American South is smashed into by the Northern Equatorial Current, whereas Xsali has a smaller current (assuming that that continent to the east descends to about 10 degrees north at least), that travels eastward along its shore (encouraging off-shore coastal winds). Second, the American South is further north than the Xsali coastline, and thus has the moist air off the gulf of mexico blown on shore by the trade winds, while the trade winds in Xsali blow off-shore. In fact, the shore of the gulf of Mexico at similar latitudes to Xsali is indeed semi-arid. And if you look at a similar latitude east-coast that, like Xsali, doesn’t have a strong equatorial current, then you’ll find the Somalian and Arabian deserts.

However, I think we can compromise here. The eastern shore of Xsali we can have as semi-arid. Then there can be a humid subtropical zone, largest in the east of Xsali (maybe even reaching the east-west mountains), and diminishing in size as we go west, until we reach the western bay.

And while we’re at it I was too enthusiastic in the far south there. That steppe should probably merge into savannah.








Zhen Lin: we don't have to have identical crops to the real world. Nonetheless, rice is, and has for a long time, been grown in spain and northern Italy, so there should be no problem having it on the peninsular. Papyrus as a species I don't know the distribution of, but reeds and rushes grow naturally in the UK - if you have a watery delta, I'm sure you could have a paperfiable reed around.

Anyway, I may make the peninsular wetter, in light of Rad's point about the South.

[Salmoneus]

OK, here's a revised map:

http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... atete5.png


The dark green is similar to the lighter green dry forest, but wamer (and likely wetter).

The light blue are (cool) laurisilva forests.

The gold in the bottom-left is savannah.



Here, the Rathedan is no more arid than the Aiwa valley. I suggest geology - permeable rocks in the rathedan, deep alluvial deposits in the valley.

[Zhen Lin]

The Great Documentation starts here.

[Cedh]

The Great Documentation starts here.

Great! Thank you!

For the upper Aiwa, I could see semi-arid rainshadow IF those mountains to the west are very high (but then I don't see how the Gezoro cross two lots of them to get to the east). Otherwise, I'm skeptical - we're just not talking a very great distance. But OK, I can go with steppe.

For my linguistic maps I assumed that the western peoples crossed the main mountain range somewhat further south, into Tjakori near the large lake, and then moved upriver towards the Rathedan. So the mountains may well be really high in the Upper Aiwa region.

Hmm... the languages the I've worked on so far are either too far into the future (Ko:t) or way too far into the future (?Aghiyi) to allow for a free hand in conworlding (even for Ko:t, so much will have to wait on everyone fleshing things out all the way up to the late second millenium). If no one else has claimed it, then I will request the challenge of deriving Gezoro (and Tjakori, too?) and then working on conhistory for those speakers. The prehistory of the Rathedan has obviously some importance; and, IIRC, we have next to nothing even sketched out for the Tjakori valley. Perhaps I can even fit the migrating Ko:t speakers into there...

Sounds like a good idea.

If it's been claimed, I could work on the Hitatc languages and the history of the upper Milir region before it gets conquered by Athale.

I've started on a language for the Hitatc family already. Details to follow...

[Radius Solis]

I'm not entirely clear about how this Rathedan rainshadow works. In the summer, you're going to have a high pressure area to the north and east of those mountains, and you're going to have a low pressure area to the south and west of them. The wet air from off the the sea to the east is going to flow over the mountains, dropping its water as rain.

But the primary wind pattern, especially in winter, is west-to-east, because it is the northern hemisphere. Northern hemispheric mid-latitude weather is greatly dominated in winter by low-pressure troughs moving progressively eastward. You can google satellite picures of the wintertime north pole and watch huge radial arms of cloud extending from it into the mid-latitudes like a giant pinwheel. This is always the primary inland rainfall mechanism from the 40-ish degree latitude on up.

Westward monsoon-type winds such as you describe are a likely secondary summertime influence, but I would think the continent would have to be a lot bigger and/or hotter in the middle for them to dominate its climate. The monsoon effect is rarely very strong anywhere north of 40 degrees. And whatever monsoon winds do occur will cause more precipitation near the east coast than far inland. So, the picture I've always had of the entire Aiwa region is that it starts very dry everywhere that's immediately east of any mountains, and then gets progressively wetter the further east you go - just as with North America.

---

I take your point about Xsali, but I do not believe the difference between it and the Gulf of Mexico-influenced subtropical climate is as great as you say. So I think your compromise is a good one, which I am content to go along wtih.

---

Your revised map is a much closer match with prior assumptions, and I think it's sound.

For the upper Aiwa, I could see semi-arid rainshadow IF those mountains to the west are very high (but then I don't see how the Gezoro cross two lots of them to get to the east). Otherwise, I'm skeptical - we're just not talking a very great distance. But OK, I can go with steppe.

For my linguistic maps I assumed that the western peoples crossed the main mountain range somewhat further south, into Tjakori near the large lake, and then moved upriver towards the Rathedan. So the mountains may well be really high in the Upper Aiwa region.

Yes, the original invasion of Westerners across the mountains is - according to previous work by Dewrad and myself - supposed to take place in a single wave that crosses the more southern mountains separating Tjakori from the west coast, with the Gezoro then pushing northwards from Tjakori. (With, possibly, other branches of the group turning south into Xsali and perhaps dominating parts of that region for a time, but without lasting linguistic influence on the more advanced Xsalian peoples). So the mountains separating the West from the upper Aiwa are probably rather on the high side... not necessarily of Andean proportions, but maybe like the Alps.

[Salmoneus]

It wasn't the monsoon I was talking about - I agree that that would be a secondary influence, and it would probably be cancelled out by the montane effect.

I was talking about ordinary seasonal migration of pressure areas. In the summer, the tropical low pressure area will be south of Xsali, with some low pressure probably extending up the Tjakori valley. The mid-latitude high pressure area will be over the sea to the east of Kasca, and to a lesser extent through the Aiwa valley. Low pressure in Tjakori + High Pressure in Aiwa = Winds passing south-west over the Rathedan, dropping moisture as they rise.

However, I accept that that would only matter for the Rathedan at the height of summer.

[dunomapuka]

::humbly steps forward::

I want to congratulate you all on how this project is coming along! It seems to be coming together nicely. cedh's maps are gorgeous. Anyway, I'd like to sign on, to make a language for some small corner of this conworld.

Help me think of some ideas. Kasca/Naidda interests me, for example, because of its "decayed urban glory" vibe, though perhaps Radius and Zompist have that entirely covered between the two of them.

Any other areas that perhaps need substratum languages that are later supplanted by other languages? What's going on on the Isles of Dagæm?

[Zhen Lin]

It would be nice if one of hte Wikipeers could add some CSS...

[Radius Solis]

::humbly steps forward::

I want to congratulate you all on how this project is coming along! It seems to be coming together nicely. cedh's maps are gorgeous. Anyway, I'd like to sign on, to make a language for some small corner of this conworld.

Help me think of some ideas. Kasca/Naidda interests me, for example, because of its "decayed urban glory" vibe, though perhaps Radius and Zompist have that entirely covered between the two of them.

Any other areas that perhaps need substratum languages that are later supplanted by other languages? What's going on on the Isles of Dagæm?

Welcome!

I think most or all of Kasca is pretty much spoken for, I'm afraid. Unless you would like to do something later on in the history, post-Zompist (who said he's setting his language in about the year 1600). The Dagaem islands are being described by Legion... talk to him if you would like to do a substrate langauge there or a derivative of his language.

As far as I can tell, the biggest remaining gap in the iron-age Edak sphere is what happens in Huyfarah after the nasty Etou dynasty in the 300s. Nobody has described it, although we've made some basic assuptions that it will splinter into smaller states in the 800s or 900s. But nobody knows what those states are or what languages they speak or how they came about... and that's a shame because Faralo is a cool language that deserves a few daughters. Sound interesting at all?

[Radius Solis]

It would be nice if one of hte Wikipeers could add some CSS...

This is beyond my ken. However, I'll ask Neek about it next time I see him.

[tron cat]

I'd also like to extend congratulations to everyone who has worked on this project!

In fact, I'd really like to get involved at some point.. if that's possible I could start when my exams finish in about 2 weeks. However, I'd need to crawl through all the maps and histories first, before I can say exactly what/where/when I'd like to begin, since I'm completely new to the entire world.

----

edit: what's going on with that unlabelled island/ couple of islands south-east of Dagæm (or is it part of Dagæm)? Half of it gets taken by Huyfárah in the most recent map, but why only half? Who's there? Can I haves it?

What does Y.P stand for?

Also, has anyone done any script work yet?

[Cedh]

Welcome to you too!

what's going on with that unlabelled island/ couple of islands south-east of Dagæm (or is it part of Dagæm)? Half of it gets taken by Huyfárah in the most recent map, but why only half? Who's there? Can I haves it?

When Radius suggested a while ago that Huyfárah should spread to this island, I simply decided they wouldn't conquer it whole. On the -2000 linguistic map it's empty because I thought it might not have been settled at that time. The natives / original settlers would likely be Peninsular people, given that the language family spreads to Lotoka (on the mainland east of Huyfárah) by sea between -500 and 0.

What does Y.P stand for?

Year of the Prophet. It refers to the death of Zārakātias, a prophet of the Adāta-speaking Rathedān. More info here and here.

[Corumayas]

As Zhen Lin is clearly thinking about writing in another thread, I've had a thought.

In Eurasia, writing was only invented independently something like twice or so, all other scripts derive from one of these two, either directly or in concept. Rather than us all inventing scripts willy-nilly, I suggest that we follow the same idea and add a "script relay" to the language side of things.

I believe that we have already established that the first people to engage in writing in the Edak sphere were the Ngauro. Let's say that the concept (but not the forms) was transferred to the Peninsular people (I envision some early maritime trading going on along the coast there). So we have two "centres" for scripts to develop. All we need is Ngauro to be developed (hint ) so we can get on and make some logograms for it!

This is something I've had in the back of my mind for a long time, and it's the main reason I've gotten so interested in Ngauro and the Eige-Isthmus family recently. I was going to propose a script relay after I had done a bunch of work on Ngauro; I didn't want to get people excited about it and then find that it took me months to get the language to a functional state.

But maybe with a little help (and peer pressure ) I can get it done faster than I would otherwise. I want to give it a good diachronic grounding, so I'm starting with the little we know about other Eige-Isthmus languages. Suggestions, advice, etc. are solicited!

Edit: My current plan is to model it to some extent on what I can find out about Old Chinese, and perhaps also somewhat on Sumerian (obviously because they're the two original Eurasian written languages as Dewrad was saying). I've been looking at the wikipedia pages on older Sino-Tibetan langauges (Old & Middle Chinese, Tibetan, Burmese) for ideas for the Eige Valley family (e.g. tone and tonogenesis, as Radius said the Miwan langs were tonal).

[dunomapuka]

::humbly steps forward::

I want to congratulate you all on how this project is coming along! It seems to be coming together nicely. cedh's maps are gorgeous. Anyway, I'd like to sign on, to make a language for some small corner of this conworld.

Help me think of some ideas. Kasca/Naidda interests me, for example, because of its "decayed urban glory" vibe, though perhaps Radius and Zompist have that entirely covered between the two of them.

Any other areas that perhaps need substratum languages that are later supplanted by other languages? What's going on on the Isles of Dagæm?

Welcome!

I think most or all of Kasca is pretty much spoken for, I'm afraid. Unless you would like to do something later on in the history, post-Zompist (who said he's setting his language in about the year 1600). The Dagaem islands are being described by Legion... talk to him if you would like to do a substrate langauge there or a derivative of his language.

As far as I can tell, the biggest remaining gap in the iron-age Edak sphere is what happens in Huyfarah after the nasty Etou dynasty in the 300s. Nobody has described it, although we've made some basic assuptions that it will splinter into smaller states in the 800s or 900s. But nobody knows what those states are or what languages they speak or how they came about... and that's a shame because Faralo is a cool language that deserves a few daughters. Sound interesting at all?

Is Legion doing the native language of Dagaem, or the dialect of Faralo that supercedes them, or both?

And you're suggesting that I plot what happens to Huyfarah after the empire's collapse, and do a descendant lang? Sounds good to me...I'm trying to figure out the full history of the country now. But a bit confused...all the data is scattered all over this thread. But sure, I'd love to do a descendant. Once I make sense of things.

[Legion]

Is Legion doing the native language of Dagaem, or the dialect of Faralo that supercedes them, or both?

I'm making tha native language, which is an Edestaen language (like Fáralo, Adata and others) but constitutes its own branch.

The linguistic situation on the islands is a bit complex, let me summerised it:

(number df native speakers/number of total speakers)

Edastean languages:
-Ðaleglo [the native language I'm working on]: 85%/95% - despite Huyfárah's rule, Ðaleglo largely remains the dominant language of the islands, being used as the primary language in education almost everywhere.
-Adāta: 20%/35% - almost all native speakers are fluent in Ðaleglo as well. The common practice to raise children bilingual in Adāta and Ðaleglo (Adāta, being both the sacred language of the Lōzera religion and the native language of the missionaries who brought this religion, is a very prestigious language) in several parts of the islands, explains the high number of native speakers [the vast majority of these speakers are not ethnic Daiadak, but native Ðawi converted to Lōzera].
-Fáralo: 18%/41% - spoken natively mostly in around the administrative center, a good 12% of these speakers have been raised bilingual in Ðaleglo (they mostly came from mixed mariages).

Isle languages:
-Thokyunehota: 6%/6% - only in a small autonomous area.
-Mûtsipsa': less than 1%/12% - as a native language, only use by a few families in the town of Kumǫslo (autonomous Thokyunam area). Understood as a liturgical language by the Ntû'a/Etúgə clergy in other parts of the islands.

Eige-Isthmus languages:
-Doroh: 3%/3% - some communities remain in small islands in the north. These communities have returned to a very simple (not to say primitive) way of life, and they are mostly ignored (if even noticed) by the rest of the population.

[dunomapuka]

Is Legion doing the native language of Dagaem, or the dialect of Faralo that supercedes them, or both?

I'm making tha native language, which is an Edestaen language (like Fáralo, Adata and others) but not constitutes its own branch.

The linguistic situation on the islands is a bit complex, let me summerised it:

(number df native speakers/number of total speakers)

Edastean languages:
-Ðaleglo [the native language I'm working on]: 85%/95% - despite Huyfárah's rule, Ðaleglo largely remains the dominant language of the islands, being used as the primary language in education almost everywhere.
-Ad?ta: 20%/35% - almost all native speakers are fluent in Ðaleglo as well. The common practice to raise children bilingual in Ad?ta and Ðaleglo (Ad?ta, being both the sacred language of the L?zera religion and the native language of the missionaries who brought this religion, is a very prestigious language) in several parts of the islands, explains the high number of native speakers [the vast majority of these speakers are not ethnic Daiadak, but native Ðawi converted to L?zera].
-Fáralo: 18%/41% - spoken natively mostly in around the administrative center, a good 12% of these speakers have been raised bilingual in Ðaleglo (they mostly came from mixed mariages).

Isle languages:
-Thokyunehota: 6%/6% - only in a small autonomous area.
-Mûtsipsa': less than 1%/12% - as a native language, only use by a few families in the town of Kum?slo (autonomous Thokyunam area). Understood as a liturgical language by the Ntû'a/Etúg? clergy in other parts of the islands.

Eige-Isthmus languages:
-Doroh: 3%/3% - some communities remain in small islands in the north. These communities have returned to a very simple (not to say primitive) way of life, and they are mostly ignored (if even noticed) by the rest of the population.

Okay, this all sounds cool, but enormously complex (reminds me of Sicily in the real world) and I suppose I'll leave you to what you're doing. So Faralo it is! Radius, you already did a descendant language called Puoni, right? What information do you have about that? For example, geographical area is it situated in, how is it tied into the history of the empire, etc. etc.

[Radius Solis]

And you're suggesting that I plot what happens to Huyfarah after the empire's collapse, and do a descendant lang? Sounds good to me...I'm trying to figure out the full history of the country now. But a bit confused...all the data is scattered all over this thread. But sure, I'd love to do a descendant. Once I make sense of things.

And during the latter half of the Empire's heyday as well. We have a good five-ish centuries unaccounted for before it collapses, too.

The definitive history of Huyfarah up to the year 130 YP is detailed at Zomp's Faralo page. More details about its history over the subsequent two centuries can be found in this post.

EDIT:

Er, looks like you asked more questions while I was posting. Hopefully the above links answer most of it!

[Zhen Lin]

I present the redacted (integrated) history of the Empire of Athalē.

I have also taken the liberty of inventing a new demonym/adjectival form for Athalē: Athalēran, taken directly from the Adāta derivational morphology.

[dunomapuka]

YAY I've begun some work. First, of course, I'm setting up some historical/cultural context before I do a conlang in depth. I'm not even sure which post-Huyfarahan group I'm going to do the language for yet -- first I'll just bounce around some ideas.

My first installment is about the remnant 'Epuonim' who did not migrate into the Kuaguatia with the main group, now referred to as the Talo.


Etou III's heir (name?) did not share his father's hatred of the Epuonim. Those who had been sold as indentured servants retained their religious beliefs and within a generation -- by the middle of the 4th century -- many were able to buy their emancipation from their masters, and once free, formed close-knit communities in the major Huyfarahan cities such as Miədu and Ussor. The absorption of Kasca and Buruja as client states (328) prompted some to emigrate those areas as well.

They shyed away from areas that remained outside of Huyfarahan control. The city of Momuva'e, for example, was far too dangerous for Talo sensibilities, its economy resembling a giant, freewheeling, unstable black market, and its crime rate disastrously high.

It was generally understood that these were essentially the same people as the Puoni who had been expelled, though they always spoke the local language (with some distinct slang and religious terms) and conformed to some extent to the local culture (meanwhile, the Puoni proper developed their distinct language and culture in isolation). They called themselves Epuonim under whatever local pronunciation, or as a poetic epithet "The Children of Daodas," while outsiders usually called them Talo, or less politely the "Dotters" or "Triclopses" (after the bindi-like dots they wore on their foreheads).

As a community the Talo were self-contained but not isolated from society, and soon found a niche in certain areas of work that were off-limits to devout Etugəists (but what WERE they? what does Etugə prohibit?). Their separation both encouraged and was encouraged by their integration into these professions, comparable to the situation of the Jews in Europe working in money-lending and similar fields.

Thus the Talo communities enjoyed famous material success by the late 300's (during the Second Huyfarahan Golden Age), and at least marginal acceptance by society. Tensions with the majority Etugəists would sometimes flare up, but rarely to the point of violence.

[Radius Solis]

So you're positing a Jews or Roma type of dispersed minority group? Interesting... I'm curious to see what others say about it.

Also, I have little idea what the specifics of Etuge are. I'm not sure that has ever been gone into.

[Legion]

Also, I have little idea what the specifics of Etuge are. I'm not sure that has ever been gone into.

Etuge is the Huyfarah version of the Ntua religion created by Rory. There is a long description of its philosophical principles in the grammar of the Mûtsipa' language: http://www.r0ry.co.uk/mutsipsa%27.html

[zompist]

Also, I have little idea what the specifics of Etuge are. I'm not sure that has ever been gone into.

Etuge is the Huyfarah version of the Ntua religion created by Rory. There is a long description of its philosophical principles in the grammar of the Mûtsipa' language: http://www.r0ry.co.uk/mutsipsa%27.html

Ayup. Once you get to Mûsaso you can stop reading. The Fáralo were converted by followers of Sútupaj and didn't follow later developments.

[tron cat]

Welcome to you too!

what's going on with that unlabelled island/ couple of islands south-east of Dagæm (or is it part of Dagæm)? Half of it gets taken by Huyfárah in the most recent map, but why only half? Who's there? Can I haves it?

When Radius suggested a while ago that Huyfárah should spread to this island, I simply decided they wouldn't conquer it whole. On the -2000 linguistic map it's empty because I thought it might not have been settled at that time. The natives / original settlers would likely be Peninsular people, given that the language family spreads to Lotoka (on the mainland east of Huyfárah) by sea between -500 and 0.

...

Cool, thanks for that info. Makes sense that peninsular people occupy it.. Austronesian sea exploration usually happened west-to-east, if we draw parallels from that.

What are the scales on those maps, or roughly how big are the islands and continents?

I like the idea of taking Peninsular language and culture and going from there, so I suppose I'll need to talk to Zhen Lin about this. What I'd like to do for the island then (which really needs a name, y'know) is derive a daughter of a peninsular language and use that as a substrate for a daughter of Fáralo that gets spoken there when Huyfárah expands. If Zhen Lin would rather, I could do a language isolate for more original inhabitants that retain their language when the Peninsular people come, and then use that as the substrate, depending on how the Peninsular family is going.. So there's one daughter for Fáralo, and possibly one for Lotoka. The other alternative is if the speakers of Ðaleglo that Legion is working on reach this island, in which case I could do a daughter of that, but I think it'd be more interesting working from Peninsular.

Zhen Lin: If this is good with you, could you make up a name for this place in the Peninsular language you want me to derive from?

Either way, by the time Huyfárah arrives, there will be a distinct culture on the islands. Sufficiently warlike and independent enough to drive back their imperial aggressors to that border cutting the island by +500. I could develop religion, distinct cultural practices and politics (I have some old notes about tribal systems from my alternate-history New Zealand culture that I could use for this instead) but technologically these people would probably take a backward turn, being so isolated from the mainland. When Huyfárah collapses, then things could get interesting. I suppose by that point the entire island would be technologically and linguistically Fáralo but culturally Peninsular, and constitute it's own warlike state with an independent identity.

What sort of climate and biology would apply to the island, by the way?

As far as writing systems go, I'll wait to see what Corumayas comes up with, and then I'd like to possibly create something for Ndak Ta either directly descended from it or related to it by inspiration, if nobody else is planning to.

[Zhen Lin]

We'll be starting from proto-writing, so you will likely have to work with a logographic system...

What I'd like to do for the island then (which really needs a name, y'know) is derive a daughter of a peninsular language and use that as a substrate for a daughter of Fáralo that gets spoken there when Huyfárah expands. If Zhen Lin would rather, I could do a language isolate for more original inhabitants that retain their language when the Peninsular people come, and then use that as the substrate, depending on how the Peninsular family is going.. So there's one daughter for Fáralo, and possibly one for Lotoka. The other alternative is if the speakers of Ðaleglo that Legion is working on reach this island, in which case I could do a daughter of that, but I think it'd be more interesting working from Peninsular.

That is fine, however, there is a condition: I design the sound changes up to -500 Y.P. - but you are free to design grammar etc., and, the Peninsular language that comes to dominate the island pre-Huyfárah is from a branch adjacent to Lotoka, rather than from the same branch.

Now, as for the name... *ŋutax-n-ptalu (forest-ATTR.GEN-island) perhaps? After sound changes it should be something like /mutA:nA~:tOju/.