Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
Cedh
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:30 am
Location: Tübingen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Cedh »

Arzena wrote:Is there a wordlist of Proto-Habeo floating around? All I see on the wiki is the Proto-Xoronic lexicon. I realized that the Anheshnalaks, over the course of their eastward migrations, could intersect and even live alongside speakers of Habeo languages. From them the Anheshnalaks would learn stories of a great and mighty empire (the Ndak) but be misdirected to the south, hence their collision with the Gezoro and Xšalad.
No, there isn't. I have derived a small number of Habeo words as sources for loans into Kuyʔūn and Ndok Aisô using the sound changes given on the Habeo languages page, and thedukeofnuke has done the same for loans into Ayčasamo, for which there is no lexicon yet though. But that's all there is. (A couple of the Habeo words in Kuyʔūn were actually first borrowed into the Habeo dialects from an early form of Ndok Aisô, but that's a bit too late for you I guess, as the Habeo invasion of Lasomo doesn't happen before c. -400 YP.)

The scenario you describe sounds interesting, and it might work. However, I've always been of the impression that the mountains north of the Wañelín (i.e. between the Western Steppe and the Xōron Eiel) are very difficult to cross; the only known instance of contact across this barrier is the migration of the Ayčasamo speakers around -800 YP, and this migration might even be in conflict with what you have in mind because it happens in roughly the same time period. The easier route from the west to the east is definitely the "Gezoro route" via the plateau south of the Wañelín, which leads to the upper Tjakori directly, not to the Xōron. Of course there are a few passes from Tjakori to the Xōron too, so contact with the Habeo is definitely possible, but it's harder to justify "first crossing the Rathedān south-to-north to live among the Habeo, and then crossing the Rathedān north-to-south to conquer Tjakori", so it might be a good idea to have a closer look at the details of your scenario.

User avatar
Arzena
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:19 pm
Location: ¡California, Tejas, Marruecos!

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Arzena »

Thanks for the reply, Cedh! Good stuff to think about
A New Yorker wrote:Isn't it sort of a relief to talk about the English Premier League instead of the sad state of publishing?
Abi wrote:At this point it seems pretty apparent that PIE was simply an ancient esperanto gone awry.
Shtåså, Empotle7á, Neire Wippwo

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Frislander »

Shoutout to all those working on Rompian: how much should Proto-Muyan be influenced by Rompian, given their relative proximity in Northwest Tuysáfa?

EDIT: Could I also say that I might want to redo the phonology of Proto-Muyan in the near-future, perhaps getting rid of the voiced stop series and adding another vowel or two.
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

Zju
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 11:10 am

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Zju »

Oh man, I should really finish Pyvyy, given how little I have left, and in the recent months I've been getting ideas about redoing my pan-Tuysáfa language family. In the meantime I've been wondering if setting up some DBs would make reconstruction of PR easier.

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Frislander »

OK, I am rethinking Proto-Muyan's phonology, and I'd like to make the following changes:
  • Remove voiced stops
  • Add or remove one or two vowels
  • Add one or two phonation contrasts on vowels
  • add a pitch-accent system (which will probably resemble that of Ancient Greek in its execution)
Edit: I think I've found a nice system, which I'm going to try and implement.
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Frislander »

Just added ejctives to the inventory of Proto-Muyan.

Also, I've been thinking and I'm feeling that with the language as it stands it's getting more and more difficult to justify it being called "Muyan" from an in-world perspective. I'm thinking I should therefore change the name, but without daughter languages I don't feel I can do that yet. I'd probably base any future name off of the relfexes of the proto-form *wawá:k "language".
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

Cedh
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:30 am
Location: Tübingen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Cedh »

Crosspost from the CBB because some of you may be interested in what I've just posted in that forum's conlang conversation thread, using Buruya Nzaysa:
Cedh wrote:
Iyionaku wrote: Vat dîyivavælet. Cîyivalai yecidiys palitínacfaun vit palanurvetan yireyʻi.
[vɐt diˌɕiːvaˈvœlət | ˌkiɕiˈvaːlaɪ̯ ʃəˈkida̯iːs paliˈtiːnˌakaʊ̯n vɪ‿ˈpalɐnˌʊɾvɛtɐn ʃiˈrɛʃʔi]
DEM COND-amazing-COP.COND.3SG | NEG-PST-see-1SG never_before language-related-PL
REL people-different-PL PST-make-3PL


That would be amazing. I have never seen related languages by different people. [Conlangers]
Stɔwa ñalta lu lɛga ŋkana ntɔnadɛ.
EMPH.AUX-2SG>3 actually DEF.ACC language Akana examine
You should have a look at the languages of Akana then.

Sah o wilu ɔ oba mvayo lɛga agɛ,
NULL.AUX-3PL at.3 this_place INDEF.ACC many group language exist,
There are several families of languages there,

kwə ɔ lɛga alpula ntɛ u oba maldɔ nzesu:
with.3 INDEF.ACC language create-PATV by.3 INDEF.NOM many person different
with languages created by different people:

lu lɛga ɛdásti, lu lɛga mvəlu, lu lɛga munzava, lu lɛga dumi, lu lɛga rɔŋki, o buda.
DEF.ACC language Edastean, DEF.ACC language Western, DEF.ACC language Peninsular, DEF.ACC language Dumic, DEF.ACC language Ronquian, and yet_again
the Edastean languages, the Western languages, the Peninsular languages, the Dumic languages, the Ronquian languages, and so on.

Saxa tse namə u lɛga ɔ ivrɛ solvo ogu rɛ gasexa enamɛ,
NULL.AUX-3PL>3 that.NOM some of.3 language INDEF.ACC story bring so_as_to.3 SUB.ACC PERM.AUX-1PL>3 compare
Some of them even have texts so that we can compare them,

ño lo rudɔ u "lo de’áxa Tsənaxa" ga "lo nalo o lo xɛvra" mɛsu.
as.3 DEF.NOM model of.3 "DEF.NOM king Tsinakan" or "DEF.NOM horse and DEF.NOM sheep" near.3
for example "The emperor Tsinakan" or "The horse and the sheep".

(Ɛyrɔwa lu lɛwi nodɛ, "pɔlasto tsɛga lu gəsta bədu ena".)
OPT.AUX-2SG>3 DEF.ACC word touch, "COND.PASS.AUX-3PL<2 only DEF.ACC family close_by see"
(You may want to click on "view direct descendants only".)


Dediga, ste’ɔ mvuga tsula?
maybe, PROG.AUX-2SG already be_curious
Maybe you are curious already?

Noneya podɔ ɔ kwəbe ño u bo lɛga fa’alɔ dalmə.
INT.AUX-1SG>3 for.2 INDEF.ACC statement as.3 INDEF.NOM four language Fáralo suggest
I'll show you a sentence in four Fáralo dialects.

Soxena lo xagala lɛwi kwə lo mvosta ŋkə oma kwə lo ako ŋkə ñolu:
NULL.AUX-3.REFL DEF.NOM piece word with.3 DEF.NOM color same also with.3 DEF.NOM source same match
Morphemes with the same color are of the same origin as well (i.e. cognates of each other):

Image

Dē Graut Bʉr
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 593
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:03 pm
Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Dē Graut Bʉr »

I've made a proposal for the history of Huyfárah and Kasca during the second millennium. Feel free to praise or pick apart as you like.

In 1100, the kingdom of Woldulaš controlled the entire Oltu valley as well as the city of Mæmedéi. Apart from that, all of Huyfárah and Kasca was divided into small city-states. The most influential of these was Mɨdu, followed by Azbǽbu and Buruya. Woldulaš was lagging behind a bit economically, though Ussor was on its way to become one of the main trading centres again.

In northern Kasca, a flooding had created a new, navigable canal through the delta. This greatly changed the economic prospects of that poor region. Soon the city-state of Wippwo appeared along the new channel, and it quickly grew to become one of the strongest city-states in Kasca. The other Kascan city-states, feeling threatened, attacked Wippwo, but Wippwo defeated them all and unified all of Kasca. During the following centuries, the Republic of Wippwo started continued to grow stronger and stronger, and by the fifteenth century, the economic power of Mɨdu was overshadowed by that of Wippwo.

The people of Mɨdu weren’t particularly pleased with this development. In the early sixteenth century, an intelligent young man named $$$ came up with an ambitious plan to make Mɨdu the centre of the world, both economically and culturally. This included strengthened cooperation with Azbǽbu and Buruya, the latter of which helped circumventing the Aiwa valley’s dependence on Wippwo, and a brand new university whose purpose was to educate the best traders, craftsmen and navigators. Merchants and craftsmen from all over the then-known world were invited to Mɨdu, and sailors from Mɨdu sailed far beyond the existing colonies and founded trading posts as far away as southern Peilaš and eastern Tuysáfa.

This started a rivalry between Mɨdu and Wippwo which would continue for centuries. Mɨdu used its alliances with Buruya and Azbǽbu to gain more power, while Wippwo made use of its control over both the delta and the Dagæm islands to try to control as much of the trade in the Aiwa valley and the Bay of Kasca as possible, and both tried to make their own trading posts – Wippwo had followed in Mɨdu’s footsteps and started founded trading posts in distant lands too – the most powerful. Although they never admitted it in public, both sides also paid pirates to attack the other’s trading ships.

Meanwhile, in Woldulaš, which was lagging behind again, a new king had come to power who wished to make Ussor Great Again. Unfortunately, he turned out to not be a very competent leader, and after he’d tried following Mɨdu’s and Wippwo’s examples and failed, he went on trying to find Ussor’s wealth within the kingdom instead. What this basically meant in practice was that the other cities within the kingdom had to pay enormous tributes to contribute to Ussor’s wealth, and at the same time, he started expanding Woldulaš to the north and the east, so those areas could start paying tributes too.

Soon afterwards Mæmedéi declared itself independent from Woldulaš and joined the confederation of Mɨdu instead. Following this, Woldulaš declared war on both Mæmedéi and Mɨdu, and Wippwo then saw its chance to crush their rivals, and so they joined Ussor in the war. However, as people elsewhere in Woldulaš rebelled too, Ussor was quickly captured by rebels from the inland parts of the Oltu valley and subsequently Mɨdu and its allies – Buruya and Azbǽbu now also got involved in the conflict – attacked Wippwo. This war severely damaged the economy of both sides, and soon afterwards they declared peace.

Woldulaš was no longer a single political unit. It was split into several city-states which all joined the confederation, which by this time, rather unoriginally, became known as ze Tselas “the One-country”, and which in English will be referred to as “the Union”. All members agreed that Wippwo would not be allowed to be part of it, though Wippwo didn’t want to, anyway. For a while Wippwo and the Union continued to fight for dominance, but eventually, when a few generations had passed and the conflict had cooled down quite a bit, both sides realized it would be better to cooperate and then Wippwo joined the Union too.

Following its accession to the Union, Wippwo adopted Nåmúþ its main trade language, and as a consequence, there has for the past century or so been a more general language shift from Wippwo to Nåmúþ.

User avatar
Arzena
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:19 pm
Location: ¡California, Tejas, Marruecos!

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Arzena »

Nice sketch.

When does Peilaš get the printing press? Has the date of that invention been canonized yet?
A New Yorker wrote:Isn't it sort of a relief to talk about the English Premier League instead of the sad state of publishing?
Abi wrote:At this point it seems pretty apparent that PIE was simply an ancient esperanto gone awry.
Shtåså, Empotle7á, Neire Wippwo

Dē Graut Bʉr
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 593
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:03 pm
Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Dē Graut Bʉr »

Glad you like it.

According to the timeline, the printing press was invented in 1289, "probably" in Rathedān.

Zju
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 11:10 am

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Zju »

When does writing reach West, Central and East Tuysáfa?

Cedh
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:30 am
Location: Tübingen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Cedh »

That hasn't been worked out in detail yet, I believe. Let's see:

- By 0 YP, the Katapaki are probably the most advanced civilization in Tuysáfa in many regards. However, thedukeofnuke writes about "the lack of a real writing system" in their culture.

- Deraighaw is said to be attested in a native writing system ("Deraighaw-A") that was in use for a few centuries and died out around -1000 YP. If it died out, it probably wasn't adopted by any relevant other ethnic groups.

- A couple of other Leic languages around 0 YP (Wih, Vij, LL) have a verb for "write". In Wih and Vij this word also means "draw", which is likely the original meaning. Vijiš also has a related noun for "writing system".

- Cednìtıt, also spoken about 0 YP, has two verbs for "write", both of them with other primary meanings ("etch, carve" and "arrange"), and a derived noun for "diary, journal".

- Fáralo ships explore the Ttiruku archipelago and probably the southwestern edge of Tuysáfa around 400 YP, but stop doing so soon afterwards because of internal conflict in Huyfárah. Regular contact between the Eigə sphere and Tuysáfa is probably not (re-)established before 800-1000 YP or so, at which point in time Peilaš should still have a small but significant technological advantage compared to at least western Tuysáfa.

- The Kennan colonise the northwestern tip of Tuysáfa between 400 and 600 YP and bring writing with them, in the form of an alphabet that's probably ultimately derived from the Ndak Ta script, but with several intermediates (most importantly the Takuña abugida, I would think). I've always assumed the target region to not have known writing before this.

- There's an independent native invention of writing in Anatolionesia (Ōmishiman alphasyllabary is mentioned to exist at c. 2500 YP), but it's not known when this occurred, and it need not have affected continental Tuysáfa all that quickly either, although it could.


I'm personally sceptical about the Leic and Cednìtıt words for writing. First of all, they were coined without serious previous discussion about the spread of technologies. Second, if the Katapaki are the most advanced civilisation in Tuysáfa at this time (urbanised but not yet a centralised political entity; just starting to adopt the first iron tools), it seems a bit unlikely to imagine a native invention of writing somewhere else, and any writing system in Tuysáfa at this time must be native because systems from Peilaš would only be able to be imported about 400 years later. Third, the Leic and Cednìtıt words could easily be redefined to just their non-writing-related meaning, as nothing depends on them.

In my opinion it would indeed be best to redefine those words, and have writing be introduced to the continent later, from three directions at a similar time: the Kennan alphabet from the northwest (Wendoth & Ronquian languages, starting c. 500 YP), the Fáralo alphabet from the southwest (Mbingmik & Leic languages, starting either c. 400 YP or c. 800 YP), and a native Hazāka syllabary that's closely related to the Anatolionesian script (Dumic & T1 languages, then spreading westwards, starting at some point between 300 and 1000 YP).

User avatar
Pole, the
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:50 am

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Pole, the »

I'm personally sceptical about the Leic and Cednìtıt words for writing. First of all, they were coined without serious previous discussion about the spread of technologies. Second, if the Katapaki are the most advanced civilisation in Tuysáfa at this time (urbanised but not yet a centralised political entity; just starting to adopt the first iron tools), it seems a bit unlikely to imagine a native invention of writing somewhere else, and any writing system in Tuysáfa at this time must be native because systems from Peilaš would only be able to be imported about 400 years later. Third, the Leic and Cednìtıt words could easily be redefined to just their non-writing-related meaning, as nothing depends on them.
Yes, sure.
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.

If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Frislander »

About the Three Waves Theory: what is the current consensus on Ultimundic? And if Proto-Isles is not Ultimundic, then what languages are being referred to?

Also just a reminder that for half of the Isles languages the grammar is still only accessible by external link, so probably should be put onto the wiki for safekeeping. And could someone do the same for Dimana Lokud, currently the backup link goes to Web Archive.

(I'd really rather not do this myself because I have exams starting on Wednesday which will keep me busy for more than a month.)
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

Cedh
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:30 am
Location: Tübingen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Cedh »

Frislander wrote:About the Three Waves Theory: what is the current consensus on Ultimundic? And if Proto-Isles is not Ultimundic, then what languages are being referred to?
In my opinion, Proto-Isles is Ultimundic. The alternative theory was put forward by Basilius at a time when no other language on Tuysáfa had been described yet. Now, we have lots of other language families on the continent, many of which have been speculated to be distantly related to each other (most importantly Wendoth, Mbingmik, Ronquian, and Leic, i.e. all non-Isles families in the western third of Tuysáfa apart from your own Muyan, which may of course be related too). Basically, if all these languages are Mediundic, the only reasonable scenario where Proto-Isles could ever not be Ultimundic would be that it's a Primundic leftover instead, and Ultimundic would either consist of a (few) yet undescribed language(s) of the southwestern mountains or else not exist at all. Having PI as Ultimundic is much better IMO.
Also just a reminder that for half of the Isles languages the grammar is still only accessible by external link, so probably should be put onto the wiki for safekeeping. And could someone do the same for Dimana Lokud, currently the backup link goes to Web Archive.
Thanks for the reminder! We actually have backups of all the original documentation for these languages on the Akana server already (under http://akana.conlang.org/files and http://akana.conlang.org/user); it's just that the backup links have only been pointed to these backups when the original location was dead. Note that using a backup has been preferred to wikifying for both historical value and copyright reasons whenever the original creator was not active anymore. Is there any link other than the Dimana Lokud one which is currently accessible through archive.org only, or not accessible at all?

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Frislander »

Cedh wrote:most importantly Wendoth, Mbingmik, Ronquian, and Leic, i.e. all non-Isles families in the western third of Tuysáfa apart from your own Muyan, which may of course be related too
It could be, but I'd need input fron someone who knows about the relationships more than I do to help me out. EDIT: I hint at the start of my article that Muyan came from further south near where Tsemekhiooni, Numəsūr and T1 are due to grammatical similarities, so they're probably its closest relatives, but the problem is that Tsemehkiooni hasn't got comprehensive wiki articles on it yet (for instance is missing person-marking information), Numəsūr could probably do with some additional work done on it and Proto-T1 hasn't even been reconstructed yet, so that'll need sorting out before we can move on. I'll update the Todo list.
Also just a reminder that for half of the Isles languages the grammar is still only accessible by external link, so probably should be put onto the wiki for safekeeping. And could someone do the same for Dimana Lokud, currently the backup link goes to Web Archive.
Thanks for the reminder! We actually have backups of all the original documentation for these languages on the Akana server already (under http://akana.conlang.org/files and http://akana.conlang.org/user); it's just that the backup links have only been pointed to these backups when the original location was dead. Note that using a backup has been preferred to wikifying for both historical value and copyright reasons whenever the original creator was not active anymore. Is there any link other than the Dimana Lokud one which is currently accessible through archive.org only, or not accessible at all?
A quick search has also brought up Yād as being archived for Edastean, the Ingomœ backup link is broken apparently due to some bot program or something and I think the Šetâmol grammar document downloads from there as well. Aside from that it appears to be pretty OK.
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Frislander »

Suggestion: we put the descendants of Proto-Muyan on the western penninsula, across the channel from where Rrób Tè Jĕhnò is on this map (see below). We posit that they had a formerly wider distribution further to the east, but that they were pushed back by Rompian speakers.

Image

And then we explain the more radical developments/retentions of Rrób Tè Jĕhnò (retroflex stops, a three-way tenius/aspirated/ejective contrast in stops, word-final tone, the prefix-based expansion of the verbal complex) as being down to substrate effects from former Muyan languages in the territory the Rrób Tè Jĕhnò speakers now reside in, since Muyan shares many of those features.

This arrangement gives handy space for contact with Wendoth languages as well as Rompian, though it does make the migration theory hard to the explain, though still perfectly plausible (maybe Muyan speakers were the vectors of the arrival of agriculture from further east?). The contact considerations make this my preferred choice over placing it, say, just west of where A-Rox Ŋʷoskʷuɣmʲa is situated, but still keeps it well within the maritime-European climate zone I wanted for it.
Last edited by Frislander on Mon May 15, 2017 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Frislander »

Also, would it be OK, if I started a stub article for Koyek? Because right now the only way to get to the information on it is to go through a tiny numbered and nigh-on invisible external link next to the redlink on the Edastean languages page, when it probably deserves at least a small introductory article on the wiki like that for its sister Kozado.
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

Cedh
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:30 am
Location: Tübingen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Cedh »

Frislander wrote:Suggestion: we put the descendants of Proto-Muyan on the western penninsula, across the channel from where Rrób Tè Jĕhnò is on this map (see below). We posit that they had a formerly wider distribution further to the east, but that they were pushed back by Rompian speakers.
[...]
This arrangement gives handy space for contact with Wendoth languages as well as Rompian, though it does make the migration theory hard to the explain, though still perfectly plausible (maybe Muyan speakers were the vectors of the arrival of agriculture from further east?). The contact considerations make this my preferred choice over placing it, say, just west of where A-Rox Ŋʷoskʷuɣmʲa is situated, but still keeps it well within the maritime-European climate zone I wanted for it.
Sounds good to me. With the minor adjustment that the most significant factor pushing Muyan speakers to the northwest would probably be expansion of Wendoth rather than Ronquian, at least for the period -2000 to -1500 YP. (Pre-Wendoth covered a relatively small area near the southeastern corner of the later Wendoth sphere, not far from where Wihəs is on the map, before expanding rapidly towards the west through military conquest. Ronquian expansion was much slower, less violent, and probably happened a bit later; starting from the region between Əktoś Duəmeuk and Rof Njiŋe Wek.)
And then we explain the more radical developments/retentions of Rrób Tè Jĕhnò (retroflex stops, a three-way tenius/aspirated/ejective contrast in stops, word-final tone, the prefix-based expansion of the verbal complex) as being down to substrate effects from former Muyan languages in the territory the Rrób Tè Jĕhnò speakers now reside in, since Muyan shares many of those features.
Substrate effects in the strict sense probably aren't needed, because there's enough motivation in Proto-Ronquian already. (Note that all these features are shared with at least one other Ronquian language.) It still makes a lot of sense as an areal development anyway though.
Also, would it be OK, if I started a stub article for Koyek? Because right now the only way to get to the information on it is to go through a tiny numbered and nigh-on invisible external link next to the redlink on the Edastean languages page, when it probably deserves at least a small introductory article on the wiki like that for its sister Kozado.
Sure, go ahead! The only reason there's no stub article for Koyek yet is that nobody ever got around to creating it.

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Frislander »

I'll just throw this out there: I currently don't have an etymology for the word "Muyan". It's definitely not an endonym, because Muyan as a family lacks bilabials, so it has to come from some other source. I'd like some suggestions for possible alternatives (with their etymologies) or possible origins for the currently form if you want. I'm thinking the name is/will be of Ronquian and Wendoth origin, because those are the two closest language groups.
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Frislander »

I'm dead angry right now because I just wrote up some interesting stuff on Proto-Muyan's moods and questions and I misclicked somewhere and it was all lost! It takes way to long to do those examples, and now I'm gonna have to go write them up again :cry:
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Frislander »

The original proto-NT grammar PDF link is now broken, and would rather the "more updated" version to be in a more accessible file format, preferably PDF.
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

Cedh
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:30 am
Location: Tübingen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Cedh »

Frislander wrote:The original proto-NT grammar PDF link is now broken, and would rather the "more updated" version to be in a more accessible file format, preferably PDF.
Fixed.

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Frislander »

Someone should probably go through the wiki and add to the "Articles" category all those articles which haven't yet been added there, because the link to that page is labelled "All Articles" when it isn't.
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

User avatar
Pole, the
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:50 am

Re: Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Post by Pole, the »

I don't quite see the point of having such a category as a list of all the pages can be accessed by Special:AllPages…
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.

If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.

Post Reply