Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
User avatar
Legion
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 522
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:56 pm

Post by Legion »

Something I made for fun,a transliteration of the sample text in Kozado's native orthography :

Zē Sinakan, zē kiērō xiezō, zē dizaklax kāxadax zē kiērō ak, zē Zam pen zē Thāl zē mēkat akā, ro aibeis sip:

"Īla i ro a ath zē meiz az zē pākāiti ak aipeige, eiz dizaklax rūlax ro be hiēko īl az. Zāk dizaklax rūlax mazār ro aibeib sip: "Zē meiz ak ro a kie kiērō baphrax. A ro a petheige oph dizaklax akra. Pen a ro a kie nak aiteige. Dau zō si aipeige ak ath zē meiz ak zē pākāiti ak ro si kie dieiph."

Eixe i, zē Zam pen zē Thāl zē mēkat akā, ro a ath zē meiz az zē pākāiti ak aipeige, īla i ro a noneige īl zō be hiēko īl az zāk dizaklax rūlax, i ro tā īl zē Ophai zāk mizāk ak noineige. I ro mizākē ā pen i ro a zē to az īl zē mikāiti malāx uileige. I ro aibe sip: "Edaik az, zāk kiēnarait zē maxuī ak, zō pazait zāk dizaklax mazār i tiēb kie dieiph ro īrapazait i. Pen ā ro aid paxeige zē dizaklax kāitiax ād zāk kālax ak, edaik az! Īēnazapais zāk adōiti!"

Zē Ophai ro ratha zē mab az zāk lieizē ak. A ro a i uileige pen a ro a zē baphō īl zē iitia az xaipheige. I ro a raiph kier lād zō mūkaib akā i peiteige. I ro a ā peiteige. I ro a oph iāitī, āik bū pen āik xār abeige, pen i ro a ā īl zē dizaklax kāhadax plazeige."


Compare with Adāta:

Sinakan, dizaka xezor, dizaka ax las ax Kāxad, mēkat ax Zama on ax Thālo, ro abise sip:

"Īlanu i ro ape ob ōpākātia ax meze ai, eze dizakalas rūlas ro īr hēkon īla in. Dizakalas rūlas kasus ro abin sip: "Meze aka ro a dizaka perā. A ro īrahophian ādizakalas akāran. On a ro tan iu naka. Dal a apeien aka ob ōpākātia ax meze aka ro zasi iu dephi."

Hola i, mēkat ax Zama on ax Thālo, ro ape ob ōpākātia ax meze ai, īlanu i ro nonan atha dizakalas rūlas atheien akā hēkon īla in, i ro zanonan īla zāti ax Ophai. I ro zamizākon ā on i ro habapan ton ai īla mina mala. I ro abin sip: "Edaki ai, khēnu ax āzē, dizakalas kasus papazeien akā īla in iu dephi ro uphōnaphanan in. On ak ro sāten paso ax kālas ax las dōtin ādo, edaki ai! Īēnazapa adōtin!"

Ophai ro rathon lezē ax maba ai. A ro ulan in on a ro saphin baphor īla itian ai. I ro pethan ā ate lād kero mūkeien akā in. I ro pethan ā. I ro abuien āiātī, bū on xāra on i ro pilazan ā īla las ax Kāxad.



Transcription of the Kozado sample text, reflecting actual pronounciation:

Ze Senoko, ze šerú šazu, ze ðezoklo kahodo ze šerú ok, ze Zom pa ze Thal ze mekot oka, ro abes sep:

"Ilo e ro o oth ze mez oz ze pakeþe ok apeža, ez ðezoklo rylo ro ba šeko il oz. Zak ðezoklo rylo mozar ro abeb sep: "Ze mez ok ro o ša šerú bophro. O ro o patheža oph ðezoklo okro. Pan o ro o ša nok aþeža. Do zu se apeža ok ath ze mez ok ze pakeþe ok ro se ša ðeph."

Eša e, ze Zom pa ze Thal ze mekot oka, ro o ath ze mez oz ze pakeþe ok apeža, ilo e ro o noneža il zu ba šeko il oz zak ðezoklo rylo, e ro ta il ze Ophoz zak mezak ok nañeža. E ro mezake a pan e ro o ze to oz il ze mekeþe mola elleža. E ro aba sep: "Adaš oz, zak šenoraþ ze moi ok, zu pozaþ zak ðezoklo mozar e þeb ša ðeph ro iropozaþ e. Pan a ro að poheža ze ðezoklo keþio ad zak kalo ok, adaš oz! Ienozopas zak odeþe!"

Ze Ophoz ro rotho ze mob oz zak llezé ok. O ro o e elleža pan o ro o ze bophu il ze iþio oz hapheža. E ro o raph šar lad zu mykab oka e peþeža. E ro o a peþeža. E ro o oph ieþi, eš by pan eš har obeža, pan e ro o a il ze ðezoklo kahodo plozeža."

User avatar
Zhen Lin
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:59 am

Post by Zhen Lin »

Corumayas wrote:If there are no objections, I think I'll send a pm to ebilein, RHaden, etc. so they know what we're doing, and can join in if they want.
Yes, please go ahead.
書不盡言、言不盡意

User avatar
Salmoneus
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3197
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: One of the dark places of the world

Post by Salmoneus »

By coincidence, I just thought I would re-enter this, after a break of howevermany months/years, and I see Radius has just mentioned me!

If I didn't apologise at the time, then I'm very sorry for disappearing back then. I was getting behind on my language, and then had to take an unintended vacation from the internet for some time - when I got back, you were all massively and intimidatingly ahead of me and getting along perfectly fine in my absence. I intended to explain the situation, but it's possible I didn't - I have a tendency to avoid making difficult posts for so long that I forget I have to make them (and the longer the gap, the harder the explanation). And since I don't think anyone said 'hey, where are you!' for me to directly address, I think I probably sort of slunk out quietly and humiliatedly.

I'd be interested in revisiting the Ndak Ta daughter and doing it properly. On the other hand, this project has ballooned to such a scale that it's almost too terrifying to step into - eighteen pages and a wiki to read through! And I've several other plans in my head at the same time. So don't expect anything too quickly, and feel free to ignore me. I'm terrible at actually getting thing done. On the other hand, if nobody feels a pressing need to take over my islands themselves, feel free to leave them to me to deal with.

But then, I've not read through this mammoth project of yours. For all I know, the islands are taken over by vikings or eaten by monkeys ten years after my people were meant to get there.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

User avatar
Salmoneus
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3197
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: One of the dark places of the world

Post by Salmoneus »

Speaking of which, is there anywhere a sort of ThisProjectForIdiots that could give an overview of geography and history?
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

User avatar
Radius Solis
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1248
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Si'ahl
Contact:

Post by Radius Solis »

Salmoneus wrote:Speaking of which, is there anywhere a sort of ThisProjectForIdiots that could give an overview of geography and history?
Well, not as such, but I can approximate such an overview by linking to the following two things:

1. Almeopedia. On the bottom of the main page there's links to some of the stuff for this conworld, all of it dating from the original "Historical Telephone" game. There is not so much material there you should find it very intimidating - not even a dozen total pages, I think, and half of that is the Ndak Ta grammar. The rest of the Almeopedia material provides a decent summary of the main results of the Historical Telephone conworlding/langing.

2. The Edastean Family Tree.
You can pretty safely ignore the bulk of this thread, we've only really started talking about history and conworlding over the last week or two (last three-four pages). Everything else is people talking about taking turns that were a year ago now. The only thing in the first dozen pages that has any current relevence is the aforelinked family tree post, which provides an excellent list, with links, for all the conlangs produced thus far between both games.


For the "rules"... none of the stuff on the first page really applies anymore. Everyone is welcome participate whenever and however they like.

User avatar
Zhen Lin
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:59 am

Post by Zhen Lin »

Indeed. I suggest, once again, that we start a new thread, and have this one archived somewhere. (Of course, if archiving is not an option then we will simply have to continue using this old thread to keep it alive...)
書不盡言、言不盡意

User avatar
Radius Solis
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1248
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Si'ahl
Contact:

Post by Radius Solis »

Just to kick this discussion back into gear, here is a cleaned-up and expanded chronology (adapted from Corumayas with revisions by cedh; my own new additions in dark red).

Comments/nitpicks/objections?



0 --- death of Zārakātias
c 100 --- Dāiadak missionaries in Ici Forest and probably elsewhere too
c 130 --- Classical Adāta; Faralo, Naidda, Ndok Aisô, etc.
from 140 on --- conflicts and battles between Thāras and Athalē
183 --- fall of Thāras; rise of Empire of Athalē begins
from 200 on --- Expansion of Athalē into the Eige valley
late 220s --- Balanin civil war in Huyfarah; first Huyfarahan Golden Age ends
c 230 --- ascension of Etou I in Huyfarah
237: Treaty between Athalē and Lasomo fixes their mutual border
244 --- plague in Ici forest, maybe elsewhere too
c 250 --- ascension of Etou II in Huyfarah
c 255 --- failed Faralo invasion of Lasomo: Athalēans cut supply lines of Etou II, possibly at the request of the Lasomians
c 260 --- Lasomo weakened; Athalē expands its influence
c 275 --- Lasomians resent becoming a vassal state and revolt; Athalē invades Lasomo
277 --- First fall of Akeladada
c 295 --- ascension of Gadein I in Huyfarah
c 310 --- ascension of Etou III in Huyfarah
c 320 --- exodus of the Puoni from Huyfarah
c 330 --- Kasca and Buruja become vassal states of Huyfarah by treaty
c 340-400 --- second Huyfarahan Golden Age
c 350 --- Empire absorbs Xōron Eiel; reaches maximum extent

400s --- Imperial Adāta standardized; Athalēan Golden Age, widespread peace and growing trade and literacy
c 500 --- Old Kozado, Koyek
c 700-1000 --- Aθáta
c 800 --- Mavakhalan; both Empires in serious decline
c 800-1100 --- Old Ayāsthi
886 --- Northern Barbarians sack Ussor, Huyfarah never recovers
900s --- splinter states arise from ashes of Huyfarah

971 --- second fall of Akeladada: Empire loses southern Lasomo, then rapidly collapses
c 1000 --- Puoni
c 1100-1300 --- Pencek, Kozado, Middle Ayāsthi
1289 --- printing press invented
Last edited by Radius Solis on Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Corumayas
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:45 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by Corumayas »

Radius Solis wrote:Just to kick this discussion back into gear, here is a cleaned-up and expanded chronology (adapted from Corumayas with revisions by cedh; my own new additions in dark red).
The first part of your chronology matches perfectly one that I was fiddling with this weekend (just before the board went down). I tried basing the rise of the Empire of Athalē fairly closely on the Pelopponesian Wars (with Athalē as Sparta), and came up with an outline that I think works pretty well:

The decades after Zārakātias' death saw the acceptance of his reformed religion throughout the Rathedān. Along with this went two other developments: an increased cohesion among the city-states of the Rathedān, and the rise in prestige and influence of Athalē, the birthplace of the Prophet. The growing influence of Athalē did not go unchallenged, especially by its traditional rival Thāras; the defeat of a Thārasian army in 64 cleared the way for the formation of what was later called the Dāiadak League, a web of alliances with Athalē at the center.

The period of cooperation that followed saw the Dāiadak city-states taking on a more expansionist outlook. Several of the cities expanded their territories beyond the Rathedān; most notably for our story, Khalanu and Thāras pushed toward the Ēza valley, leading to increased interaction (including occasional border conflicts but also some alliances) with the Nok kingdoms of Lasomo. While this expansion resulted in an increase in power, prosperity, and prestige for the Rathedān as a whole, it also eventually led to a renewal of internal strife. Khalanu's and Thāras's greatly expanded territory and their control of access to the upper Ēza, together with their growing military prowess, led to new rivalries that eventually split the Dāiadak League.

Beginning in 140, the League was rent by a series of conflicts, mostly fought between Khalanu and Athalē, each supported by a shifting group of allies (Thāras switched sides repeatedly, but was most often allied with Khalanu). Though the conflicts were mainly fought among the Dāiadak city-states, occasionally the Nok kingdoms in Lasomo became involved as well. There were stretches of negotiated peace during which the rivals carried on their conflict by proxy, sending their allies against each other or supporting opposite sides in minor wars among the kingdoms of Lasomo. At first Khalanu had the upper hand, but after numerous reversals, it ultimately surrendered unconditionally in 196.

By this time, the Dāiadak League had become the Empire of Athalē; rebellious city-states such as Thāras (captured in 183) and Khalanu lost their political autonomy entirely, and the Athalēan statesman and general "XXX" became de facto Emperor.


Adding the dates here to your outline, we get this (my additions in italics):

0 --- death of Zarākātias
64 --- Athalē and allies defeat Thāras; Dāiadak League formed
c 100 --- Dāiadak missionaries in Ici Forest and probably elsewhere too; Dāiadak cities expand toward Eige Valley
c 130 --- Classical Adāta; Faralo, Naidda, Ndok Aisô, etc.
from 140 on --- conflicts and battles between Thāras, Khalanu, and Athalē
183 --- fall of Thāras; rise of Empire of Athalē begins
196 --- fall of Khalanu; Rathedān united under Athalēan rule
from 200 on --- renewed expansion of Athalē into the Eige valley

etc.

I'm also thinking there would be some political developments within Lasomo during this period. Maybe the Nok kingdoms form one or more leagues of their own in response to the Dāiadak expansion. Almost certainly, after the fall of Akeladada the remaining small kingdoms would be absorbed by Boieba/Ziphē (either annexed outright or as vassals)... which might itself later become a client of Huyfarah (along with Kasca and Buruja).

Any ideas about the Athalēan Emperors' names?
Hüwryaasûr, priestess of the four hegemons, wrote:Ryunshurshuroshan, the floating lizard

Akana Wiki | Akana Forum

User avatar
Zhen Lin
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:59 am

Post by Zhen Lin »

Radius Solis wrote:0 --- death of Zarākātias
Ah, there we go with Zārakātias vs. Zarākātias again... question, what is the outcome of the c. 275 invasion of Lasomo? Aside from the capture of a few cities, did Lasomo survive as a political entity? What about as a nation?
Corumayas wrote:Several of the cities expanded their territories beyond the Rathedān; most notably for our story, Khalanu and Thāras pushed toward the Ēza valley, leading to increased interaction (including occasional border conflicts but also some alliances)
A problem with this is the description of Khalanu as "isonomous"... would it really be right for them to be busy colonising?
書不盡言、言不盡意

Corumayas
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:45 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by Corumayas »

Zhen Lin wrote:
Radius Solis wrote:0 --- death of Zarākātias
Ah, there we go with Zārakātias vs. Zarākātias again...
Yeah... it would be nice to have that resolved...
Zhen Lin wrote:question, what is the outcome of the c. 275 invasion of Lasomo? Aside from the capture of a few cities, did Lasomo survive as a political entity? What about as a nation?
In the Ndok Aisô description, Axôltseubeu (= Lasomo) is said to be divided into many small kingdoms, the most important of which are Oigop'oibauxeu (= Boíəba/Ziphē) and Ngahêxôldod (= Enčélade/Akeladada). My interpretation is that after the fall of Ngahêxôldod, all or most of the southern/Eigə valley kingdoms are absorbed into the Empire of Athalē, probably becoming a new province; meanwhile the northern/Boíəba valley ones remain outside the empire, under the rule or protection of Oigop'oibauxeu.
Zhen Lin wrote:
Corumayas wrote:Several of the cities expanded their territories beyond the Rathedān; most notably for our story, Khalanu and Thāras pushed toward the Ēza valley, leading to increased interaction (including occasional border conflicts but also some alliances)
A problem with this is the description of Khalanu as "isonomous"... would it really be right for them to be busy colonising?
Is that really a problem? I don't think there's necessarily a connection between the internal organization of a state and how it interacts with its neighbors. Athens was fairly isonomous (at least in theory)-- which is actually why I decided to cast Khalanu in the role of quasi-Athens here-- and the US is much more so.... Anyway, it seems to me that Khalanu's geographical position makes it the natural center for expansion into the Upper Eigə region.
Hüwryaasûr, priestess of the four hegemons, wrote:Ryunshurshuroshan, the floating lizard

Akana Wiki | Akana Forum

User avatar
Radius Solis
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1248
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Si'ahl
Contact:

Post by Radius Solis »

Zhen Lin wrote:Ah, there we go with Zārakātias vs. Zarākātias again...
Fixed.
Zhen Lin wrote:question, what is the outcome of the c. 275 invasion of Lasomo? Aside from the capture of a few cities, did Lasomo survive as a political entity? What about as a nation?
My understanding of the situation matches Corumayas' - Lasomo is rent into an independent northern half and an Adata-speaking southern half belonging to the Empire.
Zhen Lin wrote:
Corumayas wrote:Several of the cities expanded their territories beyond the Rathedān; most notably for our story, Khalanu and Thāras pushed toward the Ēza valley, leading to increased interaction (including occasional border conflicts but also some alliances)
A problem with this is the description of Khalanu as "isonomous"... would it really be right for them to be busy colonising?
I don't see why they couldn't keep themselves apart from the other Daiadak, who they regard as close to equal, but still be eager to expand into more territory to the north, filled with godless barbarians as it is.

Or perhaps those barbarians threatened the city-state one too many times, and the Khalanese conquest of them is motivated more by wanting to secure their borders than wanting to expand all over.

Or both!

User avatar
Radius Solis
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1248
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Si'ahl
Contact:

Post by Radius Solis »

Hmm. I had taken "isonomous" to be a synonym for "isolationist", but I just looked it up and it turns out to mean "having equal political rights" instead.

Which one of these is meant to be the case for Khalanu?

Cedh
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:30 am
Location: Tübingen, Germany
Contact:

Post by Cedh »

Corumayas wrote:Any ideas about the Athalēan Emperors' names?
A while ago I named the emperor who conquered Akeladada Tēmekas II...

Corumayas
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:45 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by Corumayas »

Radius Solis wrote:Hmm. I had taken "isonomous" to be a synonym for "isolationist", but I just looked it up and it turns out to mean "having equal political rights" instead.

Which one of these is meant to be the case for Khalanu?
I assume that when Dewrad wrote that (it's in the Adāta culture notes) he knew what the word meant. (Like you, I had to look it up.)

Meanwhile, I'm having second thoughts again about the emperors... Athalē being fairly democratic/republican itself, I think it wouldn't turn into an autocracy overnight. My feeling is that it'd be a gradual process, beginning with powerful politician-generals during the inter-Dāiadak wars in the second century, and culminating after the conquest of southern Lasomo in 277.

If we went with that, cedh's Tēmekas II might be considered the first actual emperor. (Tēmekas I could be his... uncle, say; a previous general who was powerful earlier in the century-- cf. Caesar's uncle Marius, or Caesar and Octavian... maybe they'd be called "the Elder" and "the Younger" rather than I and II...?) I'm imagining him maybe being installed as king in Akeladada, then returning to Athalē to be granted all kinds of honors and powers in perpetuam... or something.

Does that seem ok to you guys?
Hüwryaasûr, priestess of the four hegemons, wrote:Ryunshurshuroshan, the floating lizard

Akana Wiki | Akana Forum

User avatar
Zhen Lin
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:59 am

Post by Zhen Lin »

Yes, we do need to explain that little problem. That scenario is plausible, I think.
書不盡言、言不盡意

User avatar
Radius Solis
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1248
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Si'ahl
Contact:

Post by Radius Solis »

Well, since I was already writing up a history... I propose a compromise: not so much a gradual shift as a period of conflict between the ideals of the two systems of monarchy and oligarchy. This seems natural development from the pre-existing governmental diversity in Rathedān.




By the time of Rathedān's unification in 196, the general responsible for much of the unification, Semōn the Elder, had accumulated so much power that despite calling himself only "general", he was the de facto dictator of the fledgling nation. Upon his death in 199, his son Semōn the Younger was the first to proclaim himself ruler by right of inheritance. This did not sit well with the nobility of Athalē, who were accustomed to a more republican form of government. In 201 Semōn the Younger was assasinated, and governance of Rathedān gradually returned to normal.

The idea of royalty was far from dead, however. In 207 and again in 213, powerful politicians nearly succeeded in setting themselves up as absolute rulers. The khiara of Athalē remained in power, however. The final blow to true oligarchy was not immediately obvious when it came: Aiathi, head of one of the most powerful noble houses of Athalē, succeeded in gradually exiling all his political rivals from the khiara. The five other remaining members were all firmly in his pocket by 228. Matters came to a head early the next year, when Aiathi - in control of the army - ignored the zāthar's attempted veto of his decision to invade the lands of the Hitatc. This was not well-received by the public, and riots occurred that spring.

The Hitatc invasion took two years, but was a victory. Aiathi's son Phanal was the popular hero of the war and - unlike his father - the darling of the zāthar. Aiathi installed Phanal in the khiara (to keep him under his thumb, some historians say) and the two of them ruled their fledgling empire. Thus when Aiathi died in 234, it was a natural transition for Phanal to come to power. Smarter than Semōn the Younger, Phanal did not call himself a king, or even a ruler - he simply exercised control through the machinery of the khiara.

The Thārasians saw this ruse for what it was. Thāras was always been a monarchy before its incorporation into the Daiadak league, and its disaffected royal family had quietly waited for decades for its chance. That chance came in 244 when Phanal died unexpectedly, leaving behind only a young son. Tēmekas, head of the Thārasian royal family (the house of Mir) and Phanal's best general (and grandson of Semōn the Younger as well), stepped into the gap. The Athalēan khiara was by this time unaccustomed to any actual power, and gave way to Tēmekas with little fight. Tēmekas was the first to proclaim himself Emperor and succeed. To prove the point he disbanded the zāthar and fought a series of campaigns extending the Empire's borders to the east and north.

When Tēmekas died in 253, the throne passed to his son Mikha. Mikha ruled for four years as a weak emperor, notable only for his military intervention in Lasomo when Huyfarah invaded it. He was assasinated by Phanal's son Uremas, who was eager to return the Empire to the Athalēan control. When Thāras threatened to break from the Empire, risking civil war, Uremas was forced to marry Mikha's sister Naiōla to pacify the Thārasians by uniting the Houses of Aiathi and Mir.

Uremas died in 274, his 16-year-old son took the name Tēmekas II and ascended the throne. Tēmekas II was the first to study the model of Huyfarah and apply many of its methods to the ruling of an empire. In 275 he invaded Lasomo in response to a revolt there, culminating in the First Fall of Akeladada in 277. This made him popular at home, but rather less so in the Empire's newest province. Tēmekas II ruled 36 years and fathered numerous children.

Tēmekas III, eldest son of II, took the throne in 310 upon his father's death, but died later that year in a plague. He was succeeded by his brother Uremas II. Uremas II ruled another fifteen years.


Dates of accession:

House of Aiathi - House of Mir - House of Uremas

228 - Aiathi (approximate)
234 - Phanal

244 - Tēmekas I
253 - Mikha

257 - Uremas I

274 - Tēmekas II
310 - Tēmekas III
310 - Uremas II


Edited to correct spelling of Tēmekas
Last edited by Radius Solis on Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Radius Solis
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1248
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Si'ahl
Contact:

Post by Radius Solis »

Here's a cute little family tree of the dynasty.

Code: Select all

Athalean nobility        Tharasian nobility     
       |                     |                   Semo:n the Elder
       |                     |                      |
       |                     |                   Semo:n the Younger
    Aiathi                   |                      |
       |                 Idores ---------------- Maki:la
       |                              |
    Phanal                        Te:mekas I
       |                        ______|_____
       |                       |            |
    Uremas I -------------- Naio:la        Mikha
                  |
               Te:mekas II
         _________|_________
        |                   |
    Te:mekas III         Uremas II
Edited to correct spelling of Tēmekas
Last edited by Radius Solis on Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Zhen Lin
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:59 am

Post by Zhen Lin »

şeıə ər-àtş éımmı! (Curiously, that's essentially valid old, middle and late Ayāsthi, even in spoken form.) Or perhaps more appropriately in imperial/classical Adāta, SEIE RO ATHE ĪMO! (And while I'm at it, Mavakhalan: sêje raþe jemo!)

It also nicely explains the loaning of Fáralo words, though, it does leave the fate of the zāthar hanging, since Huyfárah does not seem to have a lower house either...
書不盡言、言不盡意

User avatar
Radius Solis
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1248
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Si'ahl
Contact:

Post by Radius Solis »

I ro ūiamīxēn don zō duieien ōbo ādo!

Corumayas
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:45 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by Corumayas »

Xezor! I ro siman an.
Zhen Lin wrote:It also nicely explains the loaning of Fáralo words, though, it does leave the fate of the zāthar hanging, since Huyfárah does not seem to have a lower house either...
The zāthar could be reinstated by Uremas I when he comes to power. I imagine he won the support of various Athalēan factions by promising to restore the oligarchy, so he had to make some gestures in that direction to keep them happy.


Some things that occurred to me while I was reading this...

-I suspect that the Dāiadak preferred exile rather than execution as punishment, including for defeated political rivals. (Maybe execution of co-religionists was considered impious.) This is why the Thārasian royal family was allowed to survive, and why Uremas son of Phanal wasn't killed by Tēmekas I.

-Probably Semōn the Elder had a policy of removing the government of defeated cities and replacing it with puppets loyal to him-- in this way he laid the foundations for the Athalēan empire. So after the fall of Thāras in 183 the surviving members of the royal family were exiled from their home city and forcibly removed to Athalē. Though they were essentially hostages, they were actually treated as guests by Semōn and his son; the two families even became allied through the marriage (ca. 90) between Idores, nephew (or niece? not that it matters much either way) of the last king of Thāras, and Makīla, daughter/son of Semōn the Younger.

-Athalē probably had, like Rome and Athens, a traditional opposition between a conservative/aristocratic party (identified with the khiara) and a populist one (identified with the zāthar). Savvy politicians exploited the tensions between the two; few managed to unite them. The only potential examples of the latter in our time period are Semōn the Elder and Phanal. During Tēmekas I's rule this old division was replaced by a new one: monarchist vs. traditionalist.

-Was Phanal's sudden death in 244 related to the plague of that year?

-When Tēmekas I (I think we should keep cedh's spelling) came to power, he might well have exiled Phanal's young son Uremas (probably not a child but a teenager at that point, given the chronology) from Athalē, just to be safe. At the same time, though, he needed to keep him close where he could watch him; perhaps he moved him to another city, and kept close tabs on him but forbade him to enter the capital.

-Tēmekas dominated the khiara but failed to appease the zāthar-- so he disbanded it, and openly took the royal title of his Thārasian ancestors (which was presumably dizaka "king", also translated "emperor" in Dewrad's examples).

-In any case, Uremas allied himself with the anti-monarchist opposition in Athalē after Tēmekas' death (and once he came to power he followed through on his promise to restore the zāthar); but upon marrying Tēmekas' daughter, he became king of Thāras himself and used that title as well. The Athalēans surely objected, but as the zāthar now owed its existence to him, it had no power to censure him. From then on the councils of Athalē were no longer sovereign; they became advisory bodies to the emperor, which met at his pleasure.

-I still like the idea that Tēmekas II was installed as king of kings (maybe eudêxeheu aktsoib?) in Akeladada; this would help legitimate his conquest in the eyes of the conquered. And the Ndok belief that kings became gods after death, and their consequent glorification of the king in life, could have a huge influence on him, especially as he was quite young (~19) at this point. Maybe Lasomo was just as important a model as Huyfárah (which was actually at kind of a low point during his reign).

-Is Uremas II the last of the dynasty? What happens next? :D


It also occurs to me that we've left religion out of this. Should there be a role for the priesthood and the fire temples in these events? What's their position in the empire?
Hüwryaasûr, priestess of the four hegemons, wrote:Ryunshurshuroshan, the floating lizard

Akana Wiki | Akana Forum

User avatar
aardwolf
Sanci
Sanci
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:15 pm
Location: Nice, France

Post by aardwolf »

I have nothing to add, except that I follow this thread semi-religiously. I commend what you guys have done - it surely is one of the greatest contributions to Conlanging out there. Bravo! Encore!

zompist
Boardlord
Boardlord
Posts: 3368
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Location: In the den
Contact:

Post by zompist »

It's nice to see some conworlding in addition to the conlanging. A couple comments...

-- I gather that the main power for some time is Athale. IIRC from Radius's map, it's located on a minor-looking tributary of the Eige. Though big cities aren't always in strategic locations, this one seems very unpromising. Is the river even navigable so close to its source? It looks like the only place easily reachable from there is Nitaze. Remember that rivers are the highways of premodern times.

-- Is the intent to fill out the Edastean tree more? Or do descendants of Adata largely take over the subcontinent? (Naturally I'd like to see something descend from Faralo. But logically the high-density Naidda region should have descendants too.)

-- Somewhere I have my notes on Faraghin. Would someone like to have them?

User avatar
Radius Solis
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1248
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Si'ahl
Contact:

Post by Radius Solis »

zompist wrote:-- I gather that the main power for some time is Athale. IIRC from Radius's map, it's located on a minor-looking tributary of the Eige. Though big cities aren't always in strategic locations, this one seems very unpromising. Is the river even navigable so close to its source? It looks like the only place easily reachable from there is Nitaze. Remember that rivers are the highways of premodern times.
The river Athale is on probably isn't navigable. The city itself was small-ish in Dewrad's culture notes (having prestige only for being a regional religious center) and probably didn't grow to be huge even while it was the capital of a burgeoning empire. Even though the empire was named after it, it was really more built by the Daiadak as a whole than just by the city of Athale. Capital cities don't necessarily need to be massive, just prosperous and prestigious, provided there's a sufficiently large and loyal population base elsewhere in the home region. Persepolis and Hattusa are examples.

-- Is the intent to fill out the Edastean tree more? Or do descendants of Adata largely take over the subcontinent? (Naturally I'd like to see something descend from Faralo. But logically the high-density Naidda region should have descendants too.)
Ultimately yes, filling out the family tree would be nice... I wish there were more interest in Faralo and Naidda too. C'mon people! So far all there's been is Puoni, my daughter of Faralo that is sitting on the hard drive of a dead Mac and needs to be rescued and finished (quite a lot is done, it mostly just needs to be put into html format).
-- Somewhere I have my notes on Faraghin. Would someone like to have them?
That would be very cool. Something else you hopefully still have that would be nice: your sound changes for Faralo. I did try reconstructing them, once, but it's not something I'm good at. Or perhaps Corumayas might like to try? He did an excellent job reconstructing Adata's sound changes when Dew lost them.

User avatar
Radius Solis
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1248
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Si'ahl
Contact:

Post by Radius Solis »

Corumayas wrote:-Is Uremas II the last of the dynasty? What happens next? :D
I sought only to explain the necessary early stuff, but yeah, it's fun. Want to have a go at filling in the next couple centuries?
Corumayas wrote:-Was Phanal's sudden death in 244 related to the plague of that year?
It is now! Thanks for noticing the correspondence of dates.

User avatar
Zhen Lin
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:59 am

Post by Zhen Lin »

Radius Solis wrote:
zompist wrote:-- I gather that the main power for some time is Athale. IIRC from Radius's map, it's located on a minor-looking tributary of the Eige. Though big cities aren't always in strategic locations, this one seems very unpromising. Is the river even navigable so close to its source? It looks like the only place easily reachable from there is Nitaze. Remember that rivers are the highways of premodern times.
The river Athale is on probably isn't navigable. The city itself was small-ish in Dewrad's culture notes (having prestige only for being a regional religious center) and probably didn't grow to be huge even while it was the capital of a burgeoning empire. Even though the empire was named after it, it was really more built by the Daiadak as a whole than just by the city of Athale. Capital cities don't necessarily need to be massive, just prosperous and prestigious, provided there's a sufficiently large and loyal population base elsewhere in the home region. Persepolis and Hattusa are examples.
Indeed. Nitazē, sitting at the confluence of two rivers, is likely to be the major trading port of the region. Modern analogies... New York City, or perhaps Hong Kong? As such, the post-imperial Rathedān economy will likely be dominated by the daughter state that controls Nitazē.

On the other hand, Khalanu also sits at the confluence of two rivers, which joins up the the major Ēza (Eigə) river...
Dewrad wrote:The trading of the products of this expertise in metallurgy are the foundation of Rathedān's wealth- Zophīs and Hiphago trade weapons and armour across the Eige valley, even all the way to Huyfarah- although most trade routes terminate in the Kascan city of Buruja, the valley's principal trading entrepôt- while Athalē and Khalanu are famous for their fancy goods. In addition, much trade goes south-west to the Xšali, and trade caravans supply Rathedān and the north with exotic goods and spices, delicate olive oils and fragrant perfumes from the far south. Due to the difficulty in reaching the ports of Xšalad by sea, much of the north-south trade passes through the Rathedān- particularly through Radias, which guards the largest pass through the mountains. It is notable that this quasi-monopoly of the Dāiadak is one of the factors which have spurred Huyfarah's push southwards and the growing importance of the ports of the Eige delta.
It seems that Radias may also become a major trading post, since the inland regions seem inaccessible by waterways. At least until they develop air transport.
書不盡言、言不盡意

Post Reply