Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

[CatDoom]

I've started posting some Yewedu vocabulary that I've been tinkering with for far too long. So far it's just some verb stems. Do you think it would be better if I posted full conjugations for each? It would be informative since there are a lot of irregularities in the verbal system, but doing so would obviously take up a lot more space, and I'm not sure how exactly I'd format it.

[the duke of nuke]

Fixsme: Thank you - that is a very interesting article. I agree a more massive moon, assuming mostly silicate with a small iron core, is more realistic, and am happy to use your figure; the only reason I went for a lower density was to keep tidal forces to a low level.

[Fixsme]

My computation methods are not good enough yet. I have to fine tune my program. I am using the moon to calibrate this model and I have some troubles: my earth moon is a bit to heavy and the mantle is too heavy with respect to the core. The density should be a bit lower, and I actually rounded the number up to 3.4 g/cm3.

I fear also the increased tidal forces. Are several kilometer wide tides expected in Akana? Plus if the moon is heavier, it should be further out so have a bigger radius so the moon should be heavier and so on and so on...

[CatDoom]

As far as I know, no, tides like that are not to be expected. I imagine that something like that would be a big problem for shipping down the line... maybe everybody uses longship-type vessels they can just haul up on shore?

[Fixsme]

Apparently, the theoretical height of tides in Akana should be 54.6 cm versus 53,5 cm on Earth. I don't know exactly how it translate in real life, since on earth tides go from a few cm to 17 meters. It would depends on location, size of the sea, depth, geographical features...

I also have the time the tide wave need to circle around Akana, if Akana were completely flat with a 3.8 km thick ocean :it is 28 hours and 43 minutes vs 28 hours and 49 minutes on earth. It is basically the speed at which the tide wave would go if the moon disappeared. I don't know yet how this number is usefull.

The last number, more interesting I think, is the time between two tides, 11 hours and 53 minutes on Akana versus 12 hours and 22 minutes on Earth.

I just realized something since Akana's moon is larger than Earth's, shouldn’t the days on Akana be longer than on Earth? The pull of the moon on Akana is larger, so it should slow this planet more.

[CatDoom]

I just realized something since Akana's moon is larger than Earth's, shouldn’t the days on Akana be longer than on Earth? The pull of the moon on Akana is larger, so it should slow this planet more.

I think that the rotation speed of a planet can vary depending on the initial angular momentum of the protoplanetary mass, so we can more or less fudge the day length any way we want.

[Fixsme]

I ran again simulations for Akana and Akana's moon, though I'm still a bit overweight, but here I go :
For Akana, with average radius of 6,339,500 meters. Composed of a iron core (55% of the distance) and a olivine mantle (45% of the distance):
I get a mass of 5.983e24 kg, which means a average density of 5606 kg.m-3 (a bit dense compared to Earth 5,515 kg.m-3).
It should be flattened by a coefficient of 0.00373 (a little too flat)
Which means the polar radius is 6,323,712 meters and the equatorial radius is 6,347,394 meters which is a difference of 23.68 kilometers (On Earth it is 21 kilometers)
For orbital computations (that's what interested me), the J2 coefficient is 0.00129.

Regarding Akana's moon:
Its average radius is 2,195,500 meters. Composed of a iron core (20% of the radius) and an olivine mantle (80% of the radius). I get a mass of 1.504e23 kg, an overage density of 3393 kg.m-3.
Akana's moon should be tidally locked. This means that the moon is flattened by its rotation and stretched by Akana, which means it has three sizes and not two.
The polar radius should be 2,195,474 meters. The first (perpendicular to the Akana to moon line) equatorial radius should be 2,195,497 meters. The second equatorial radius should be 2,195,521 meters.

If you need, I can give you mass, density, flatness of any planet you want. It should work for any rocky planets or ocean planets. I can't do Jovian planets (too much hydrogen), helium planets (too much helium), nor ice giants such as Uranus or Neptune (yet). That will be my next step. After that, I will be doing the same thing for the star and finally testing the stabililty of the Akanean solar system by making it run for millions of years.

[CatDoom]

Does anybody have a backup of Iŋomœ́? The grammar wasn't on the Wiki and it appears that the page it was on went down recently. In retrospect, I've looked at it enough (since one of my languages is a granddaughter) that I really should have saved a backup myself. >_<

[Pole, the]

Wayback Machine has it.
http://web.archive.org/web/201503231116 ... gomoe.html

[CatDoom]

Oh, huh, I tried Wayback Machine, but I must have done something wrong. Thanks Pole!

[Cedh]

I've revisited Hkətl’ohnim and finally finished the sample text, "The young lion". Comments are very welcome!

(Anyone still interested in reconstructing Hkətl’ohnim's parent language Proto-T1? Have a look here...)

Code: Select all

Wahə         həhkē.
Ø-  wahə-Ø   h-     hkeʷ
3SG-lion-DIR 3SG.NP-young
he-is-a-lion he-is-young
The young lion.



Kōnim             qa-t’ī            wahə,
Ø-  kōnim    -Ø   qa= Ø-  t’ī   -a   Ø-  wahə-Ø
3SG-chieftain-DIR of= 3SG-forest-GEN 3SG-lion-DIR
he-is-a-king      of= it-is-a-forest he-is-a-lion
The lion is king of the forest,

ši  nerikēmu                              nəlīku                   nemā,
ši  nəm-       rika          -ːmōrʷ       nə- līku            -Ø   nə-    ːma
and 3PL>3SG.NP-be_subordinate-obviously   3PL-predatory_animal-DIR 3PL.NP-all
and they-are-obviously-subordinate-to-him they-are-beasts          they-are-all-of-them
and all the beasts are clearly subordinate to him,

so      ā          hruskuq,           həšamáłaq,                hčihpēħaq,               həskaħosqoqʷ.
so      ā     -Ø   h-     rusku -aq   h-     <šān>-  hwał -aq   h-     <čīhʷ>- pēħa-aq   h-     <skaħo>-sqoʷ -aq
because 3SG:NH-DIR 3SG.NP-strong-EMPH 3SG.NP-<chest>-thick-EMPH 3SG.NP-<waist>-slim-EMPH 3SG.NP-<foot>- agile-EMPH
because this_one   he-is-very-strong  he-is-very-thick-of-chest he-is-very-slim-of-waist he-is-very-swift-of-foot
because he is very strong, thick of chest, slim of waist, and swift of foot.



Nya  wahti              həhkē.
nya  Ø-  wahə-ti  -Ø    h-     hkeʷ
TOP  3SG-lion-PROX-DIR  3SG.NP-young
look this-one-is-a-lion he-is-young
Well, there is this young lion.

Hēnenyáłəts                 t’īn           ā          nin  həsmīnči,
həm-       se‹›nyał    -ots Ø-  t’ī   -n   ā     -Ø   nin  h-     smēn      -čī
3SG>3SG.NP-go_into_area-HAB 3SG-forest-ACC 3SG:NH-DIR when 3SG.NP-be_morning-DUR
he-always-goes-into-it      it-is-a-forest this_one   when it-is-early-in-the-day
He always goes into the forest when it is early in the day,

ši  həłūyəsquts                       ēħan            nəlikʷák                             nemā                 suču,
ši  həhʷ-            l‹›ūyəsqʷ   -ots ē     -ħ   -n   nə-    <līku>            -ak         nə-    ːma           Ø-  suči    -u
and 3SG>3:DEICTIC.NP-compete_with-HAB 3PL:NH-DIST-ACC 3PL.NP-<predatory_animal>-be_another 3PL.NP-all           3SG-strength-INSTR
and he-always-competes-with-them      those           they-are-other-beasts                they-are-all-of-them with-strength
and he always competes with all the other beasts with regard to strength,

ši  ħqanēyuts                      ut’iłkimostu.
ši  h-     qan-        ēyuʷ  -ots  w-      t’iłk-īmə-ots-ta-u
and 3SG.NP-out_of_area-arrive-HAB  3SG.PST-win  -RES-HAB-VN-INSTR
and he-always-arrives-out-of-there with-him-having-won-as-expected
and he always returns victorious.

Latsu     nehnām          ši  nehkotawānəs                  nəlīku                   nəmā                 yuhtin:
latsu     nəm-       hnām ši  nəm-       hkotawə  -ːnas     nə- līku            -Ø   nə-    ːma           yū     -ti  -n
therefore 3PL>3SG.NP-hear and 3PL>3SG.NP-recognise-OBL      3PL-predatory_animal-DIR 3PL.NP-all           3SG.T/A-PROX-ACC
therefore they-hear-it    and they-recognise-it-as-required they-are-beasts          they-are-all-of-them this-thing
Therefore all the beasts hear these news and recognise:

Nəhrika                         ēħ,             ān  kōnim             qa-t’ī             wahti.
nəhʷ-            rika           ē     -ħ   -Ø   ān  Ø-  kōnim    -Ø   qa= Ø-  t’ī   -a   Ø-  wahə-ti  -Ø
3PL>3:DEICTIC.NP-be_subordinate 3PL:NH-DIST-DIR but 3SG-chieftain-DIR of= 3SG-forest-GEN 3SG-lion-PROX-DIR
they-are-subordinate-to-him     those           but he-is-a-king      of= it-is-a-forest this-one-is-a-lion
They are subordinate to him, but the lion is king of the forest.

Ši  hōnsu     hət’īqanēyuts                          ut’iłkimostu,
ši  hōnsu     h-     <t’ī>-   qan-        ēyuʷ  -ots w-      t’iłk-īmə-ots-ta-u
and every_day 3SG.NP-<forest>-out_of_area-arrive-HAB 3SG.PST-win  -RES-HAB-VN-INSTR
and every-day he-always-arrives-out-of-the-forest    with-him-having-won-as-expected
And every day he returns from the forest victorious,

ši  hwahtimešu                 həhwaq’mə,
ši  h-     <wahə-ti>-  m‹›ešuʷ həhʷ-            aq’məʷ
and 3SG.NP-<lion-PROX>-worship 3SG>3:DEICTIC.NP-be_parent_of
and she-praises-the-lion       she-is-his-parent
and his mother praises the lion,

“Ritsōł!”
rəy-       tsōł
2SG>1SG.NP-be_descendant_of
you-are-my-descendant
“You are my child!”

“Rəmōšinəhētaq,            rəšamáłaq,                  rəčihpēħaq!”
r-     <mōšin>-hēta -aq    r-     <šān>-  hwał -aq     r-     <čīhʷ>- pēħa-aq
2SG.NP-<body>- large-EMPH  2SG.NP-<chest>-thick-EMPH   2SG.NP-<waist>-slim-EMPH
you-are-very-large-of-body you-are-very-thick-of-chest you-are-very-slim-of-waist
“You are large of body! You are thick of chest! You are slim of waist!”

“Nəłənšihni     hołu           ‘Hruskum’!”
nəł-     nšihni Ø-  hołi-u     h-     rusku    -m
1SG>2.NP-grant  3SG-name-INSTR 3SG.NP-be_strong-PERSON
I-grant-to-you  with-the-name  he-is-a-strong-one
“I grant you the name ‘Strong One’!”



Ōni  tərēn həsmīni.
ōni  tərēn h-     smēn      -nī
FOC  now   3SG.NP-be_morning-INC
well now   it-is-very-early-in-the-day
Well, now the morning is beginning to break.

Hyōləhpəhni                    wahti              həhkē,
h-     yōləhʷ         -pəhni   Ø-  wahə-ti  -Ø    h-     hkeʷ
3SG.NP-stretch_muscles-TRAD    3SG-lion-PROX-DIR  3SG.NP-young
he-stretches-his-body-as-usual this-one-is-a-lion he-is-young
The young lion stretches his muscles as usual,

ši  həhmešpəhni                       həhwaq’mə,
ši  həhʷ-               m‹›ešuʷ-pəhni həhʷ-            aq’məʷ
and 3SG.NP>3:DEICTIC.NP-worship-TRAD  3SG>3:DEICTIC.NP-be_parent_of
and she-praises-him-as-usual          she-is-his-parent
and his mother praises him as usual,

“Rəmōšinəhētaq,            rəhonts’aspiq,              rənūwepuq!”
r-     <mōšin>-hēta -aq    r-     <hūm>-  tsaspi-aq    r-     <nū>-  epu  -aq
2SG.NP-<body>- large-EMPH  2SG.NP-<tooth>-sharp -EMPH  2SG.NP-<soul>-brave-EMPH
you-are-very-large-of-body you-are-very-sharp-of-teeth you-are-very-brave-of-soul
“You are large of body! You are sharp of teeth! You are brave of soul!”

“Ramuhamōru                nitun         nəruskʷim                nəwahəlet!”
rən-       kuhə-ːmōrʷ      n-  katu-n    nə-    rusku -īmˀ        nə-    <wahə>-let
2SG>3PL.NP-own -obviously  3PL-arm -ACC  3PL.NP-strong-suitably   3PL.NP-<lion>-belong_to
you-obviously-possess-them they-are-arms they-are-suitably-strong they-belong-to-a-lion
“You really possess the strong arms of a lion!”



Ān  mu   həhmešt’ūmaħqʷ                         ši  hənsāri         yuhtin:
ān  mu   həhʷ-               m‹›ešuʷ-ːtōnʷ-aħqʷ ši  hm-        sāri yū    -ti  -n
but then 3SG.NP>3:DEICTIC.NP-worship-CESS -MIR  and 3SG>3SG.NP-say  3SG:TA-PROX-ACC
but then she-suddenly-stops-praising-him        and she-says-it     this
But then she suddenly stops praising him and says this:

“Šīq  nehkotawānəs.”
šīq   nəm-       hkotawə  -ːnas
truly 1SG>3SG.NP-recognise-OBL
truly I-recognise-it-as-required
“It is true, I must acknowledge it.”

“Ranōməts               nəlikʷák                             suču.”
rən-       ːnōmi  -ots  nə-    <līku>            -ak         Ø-  suči    -u
2SG>3PL.NP-surpass-HAB  3PL.NP-<predatory_animal>-be_another 3SG-strength-INSTR
you-always-surpass-them they-are-other-beasts                with-strength
“You always surpass the other beasts with regard to strength.”

“Rət’īsenyáłəts                  ši  rət’īqanēyuts                          it’iłkimostu,”
r-     <t’ī>-   se‹›nyał    -ots ši  r-     <t’ī>-   qan-        ēyuʷ  -ots y-      t’iłk-īmə-ots-ta-u
2SG.NP-<forest>-go_into_area-HAB and 2SG.NP-<forest>-out_of_area-arrive-HAB 2SG.PST-win  -RES-HAB-VN-INSTR
you-always-go-into-the-forest    and you-always-arrive-out-of-the-forest    with-you-having-won-as-expected
“You always go out into the forest and you always return out of there victorious,”

“ši risēhnits                 yuhu         račīkomōru                         ēn         nemā.”
ši  rəy-       s‹›ēhni -ots   yū-    u     rən-       čīkuň      -ːmōrʷ       ē     -n   nə-    ːma
and 2SG>1SG.NP-prove_to-HAB   3SG:TA-INSTR 2SG>3PL.NP-be_superior-obviously   3PL.NH-ACC 3PL.NP-all
and you-always-prove-it-to-me this         you-are-obviously-superior-to-them those      they-are-all-of-them
“and you always show me that you are really superior to all the other beasts.”

“Šīq  əlkōnim           qa-t’ī.”
šīq   l-  kōnim    -Ø   qa= Ø-  t’ī   -a
truly 2SG-chieftain-DIR of= 3SG-forest-GEN
truly you-are-a-king    of= it-is-a-forest
“You are truly king of the forest.”



“Ān səresu  həntluhnəhk,          ritsōł!”
ān  səresu  h-     ntluhonʷ-ihk   rəy-       tsōł
but someday 3SG.NP-happen  -PROSP 2SG>1SG.NP-be_descendant_of
but someday it-will-come-to-pass  you-are-my-child
“However, a certain day will come, my child!”

“Mu  rət’īsenyáłəhk,”
mu   r-     <t’ī>-   se‹›nyał    -ihk
then 2SG.NP-<forest>-go_into_area-PROSP
then you-will-go-into-the-forest
“Then you will go out into the forest,”

“ši rəheqāyəhtērə                        šihmūltin                 həseč       hkohka,”
ši  rəh-          ēq-   āyəh     -tēr    Ø-  šihmūlu    -ti  -n    h-     seč  h-     kohka
and 2SG>3:DEICTIC-there-encounter-ACCID  3SG-game_animal-PROX-ACC  3SG.NP-weak 3SG.NP-naked
and you-will-accidentally-meet-him-there this-one-is-a-game-animal he-is-weak  he-is-naked
“and you will meet a small naked creature there,”

“halt                ši  hənłūših                       tohan.”
h-     altˀ-         ši  hm-         łūšihʷ             Ø-  toha-n
3SG.NP-stand_upright and 3SG>3.SG.NP-carry_on_shoulders 3SG-head-ACC
he-stands-upright    and he-carries-it-on-his-shoulders it-is-a-head
“which stands upright and carries his head above his shoulders.”



“Rihnāmimē,                  ritsōł!”
rəy-       hnām-īmˀ     -ē   rəy-       tsōł
2SG>1SG.NP-hear-suitably-IMP 2SG>1SG.NP-be_descendant_of
you-must-listen-to-me   you-are-my-child
“Listen to me, my child!”

“Rəšamáłaq,                 rəčihpēħaq,                rəskaħosqoqʷ,              rəhonts’aspiq!”
r-     <šān>-  hwał -aq     r-     <čīhʷ>- pēħa-aq     r-     <skaħo>-sqoʷ -aq    r-     <hūm>-  tsaspi-aq
2SG.NP-<chest>-thick-EMPH   2SG.NP-<waist>-slim-EMPH   2SG.NP-<foot>- agile-EMPH  2SG.NP-<tooth>-sharp -EMPH
you-are-very-thick-of-chest you-are-very-slim-of-waist you-are-very-swift-of-foot you-are-very-sharp-of-teeth
“You are thick of chest! You are slim of waist! You are swift of foot! You are sharp of teeth!”

“Ān həntluhnəht,               rəhāyəh                 šihmūltin                 həseč       hkohka,”
ān  h-     ntluhonʷ-aht        rəh-          āyəh      Ø-  šihmūlu    -ti  -n    h-     seč  h-     kohka
but 3SG.NP-happen  -ADVERS     2SG>3:DEICTIC-encounter 3SG-game_animal-PROX-ACC  3SG.NP-weak 3SG.NP-naked
but it-will-sadly-come-to-pass you-will-meet-him       this-one-is-a-game-animal he-is-weak  he-is-naked
“However, it will come to pass that you meet this small naked creature,”

“ši łohumu              heməqēhəhk                       nalmaqun          tlak,”
ši  Ø-  łohu-mu  -u     hm-        mə-     qēh    -ihk   Ø-  nalmaqʷ-n     Ø-  tlak-Ø
and 3SG-day -DIST-INSTR 3SG>3SG.NP-towards-go_down-PROSP 3SG-horizon-ACC   3SG-sun -DIR
and with-that-day       it-will-go-down-towards-it       it-is-the-horizon it-is-the-sun
“and on that day the sun will go down to the horizon,”

“ān hahtaq        rət’īqanēyonēhaħqʷ.”
ān  hahtaq        r-     <t’ī>-   qan-        ēyuʷ  -ːnē-aħqʷ
but unfortunately 2SG.NP-<forest>-out_of_area-arrive-NEG-MIR
but unfortunately you-will-unexpectedly-not-return-from-the-forest
“but unfortunately you will not return from the forest.”



“Həhmōra                      šihmūltin                 həseč       hołu           ‘Čīm’.”
həh-             mə-     ōra  Ø-  šihmūlu    -ti  -n    h-     seč  Ø-  hołi-u     Ø-  čīm   -Ø
1PL>3:DEICTIC.NP-towards-call 3SG-game_animal-PROX-ACC  3SG.NP-weak 3SG-name-INSTR 3SG-person-DIR
we-call-it                    this-one-is-a-game-animal he-is-weak  with-the-name  he-is-a-person
“We call this small creature ‘Man’.”

[/size]

[Corumayas]

That's nice, Cedh! I like the way Hkətl'ohnim turned out.

I noticed recently that Radius' web pages are gone... and that led me to a whole project of finding broken links on the wiki and trying to fix them. I've now repaired most of them, but there are a few things I couldn't find backups for at all:

the Delta Naidda lexicon (http://staff.washington.edu/salmiak/aka ... nary2.html)
the Pencek lexicon (http://staff.washington.edu/salmiak/akana/penlex.html)
the Aríe sample text (http://tzirtzi.ipage.com/conlanging/ArieText.pdf)
(also some old maps that were on imageshack – most of them not valid anymore anyway – and a few links to non-Akanaran conlangs and translation relays)

I wonder if someone has saved copies of any of these. In particular the Naidda lexicon; it'd be a shame if that was lost.

[Cedh]

Thanks a lot!

I think I have saved copies of at least some of the missing pages; I'll have a look tonight or tomorrow.

[Zju]

(Anyone still interested in reconstructing Hkətl’ohnim's parent language Proto-T1? Have a look here...)

i so would, but have more pressing conlang things to do, such as deriving Áżädgä and Pyvyy. Oh, well..

[Cedh]

I think I have saved copies of at least some of the missing pages; I'll have a look tonight or tomorrow.

I haven't found the Aríe sample text, but most of the other stuff is now available again (i.e. the broken links have been updated to point to the backup files).

[Corumayas]

Fantastic! Thanks, Cedh!

[Frislander]

May I ask a question: how is progress in the reconstructions for Proto-T1 and Proto-Leic coming on?

[communistplot]

May I ask a question: how is progress in the reconstructions for Proto-T1 and Proto-Leic coming on?

Still looking for people willing to reconstruct Proto-T1, tho there's at least one person on CBB who's made an attempt recently.

[KathTheDragon]

Proto-Leic won't be the easiest to reconstruct until I can get my langs done, but like a genius I made it really complex and I keep getting bogged down in trying to work out the grammar. Heh, maybe I should made a simpler sibling so I can actually churn out a language.

[vec]

Proto-Leic so far boggles my mind. Although the recent work done by Cedh and some others made it a little easier for me. I'd love to get on it again soon.

[KathTheDragon]

Haha, good!

[Fixsme]

Rompian is hard too. These reconstruction relays are actually pretty hard. I just got a few etymologies and a few obvious sound changes since I began a year and half ago.

[Zju]

May I ask a question: how is progress in the reconstructions for Proto-T1 and Proto-Leic coming on?

Still looking for people willing to reconstruct Proto-T1, tho there's at least one person on CBB who's made an attempt recently.

Will maybe give it a shot after several months, depending on how things with the 2014 relay turn out. I look forward to mostly reconstruct PR first.

[CatDoom]

I know I've been pretty quiet lately, but I've actually been working on a revision of Rrób tè Jĕhnò. Initially my motivation was mostly that I've never been happy with the butt-ugly orthography, and I wanted to change a couple of sound changes that I kind of regretted, but the more I've tinkered with it the more I've found I wanted to change. The current draft is different enough that I might consider "forking" the language like Pole did with Endayin, but for now I'm mostly focused on finishing up the new version and getting it online. Whether I decide to keep the old one or not, the revised version should give people a *little* more data to work with.

[communistplot]

So, uhh, I broke the tables on my lang's page and was wondering if anyone with a better grasp of coding than me could fix it. http://akana.conlang.org/wiki/Northeast ... l_Pronouns Danke.