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Post by Cedh »

Corumayas wrote:Alternatively, we could move the dates in cedh's proposal earlier. For example, they might edge into the Eige valley after Etou II's failed invasion of Lasomo in the third century, 200 years earlier than cedh's dates.

This would be good. Maybe like this:

from 200 on: Expansion of Athalē into the Eige valley
237: Treaty between Athalē and Lasomo, fixing the borders
255: Athalēans cut supply lines of Etou II (as Radius suggested), possibly at the request of the Lasomians
c. 260: Lasomo weakened; Athalē expands its influence
c. 275: Lasomians resent becoming a vassal state and revolt, Athalē invades Lasomo
277: First fall of Enčélade

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Post by Corumayas »

I like that. Furthermore, moving into Lasomo early makes geographical sense. On Dewrad's map of the Rathedan, there are two rivers flowing out of the region-- one going northeast, the other due east but further south. Probably they meet the Eige upstream and downstream from Lasomo respectively. If the Daiadak expanded down both river valleys, the logical next step would be to fill in the territory in between.

EDIT: Also, it makes sense for Athale to exploit the weakness of Huyfarah during the period Radius wrote about by expanding into the middle Eige (previously a buffer zone between the two). Probably the eventual situation would be that Athale controls the upper and middle Eige, maybe as far downriver as Buruja, while Huyfarah holds onto the delta and the coasts. That situation might last a long time with neither side being able to get an advantage over the other. But how long Boieba and southern Kasca could remain independent with two large empires looming over them, I don't know.

EDIT again: This post made me a Gent!
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Post by Radius Solis »

Gets two thumbs up from me.


As far as the clash of two empires thing goes, though... I sorta envisions Huyfarah splintering at least by the time of Puoni. Though I wrote nothing, at the time I was dealing with placenames for the Puoni lexicon I named a couple "nations" of the former Huyfarahan coast. IIRC one of them was called Ragui in Puoni.

My thought had been that Kuaguatia was too underpopulated, out of the way, and unimportant to be conquered by anyone else until maybe a couple hundred years before the Puoni grammar, by which time Huyfarah was no longer in a position to occupy it (or might well have been already dead). Kasca meanwhile, which was independent in 130 (or at least the southern parts were), can't possibly have avoided ended up being at least a client state of Huyfarah for a while. Still, Kasca is the home for my most-loved conlang Naidda and I would just as soon see that land re-emerge as one of the post-Huyfarah independent splinter-states. Even if it ends up small. I very much want a place in the timeline for potential descendents of Naidda that I or anyone else may create in the future.

Buruja in 130 was a transitional zone - and independent city-state (only nominally Kascan), with major trade routes from Lasomo, Rathedan, Huyfarah, and Kasca all connecting there. Realistically I think it would either have to eventually develop into a nation of its own or else be a prosperous province of Huyfarah until that empire splinters. (I think I named it a nation in the Puoni lexicon, but that's easily changeable.) So I don't think it's likely to be the home of a Daiadak language anytime in the first millennium YP. The stretch of river between Buruja and Lasomo, otoh, is wide open.


Another thing to keep in mind from a linguistic perspective is that Naidda and Ndok Aiso were intended to be two distant ends of a dialect continuum stretching along the Eige, with the Burujan dialect being intermediary between them. I don't know what, if anything, can be made of that. Perhaps Buruja ends up Faralo-speaking, I don't know.

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Post by Cedh »

Radius Solis wrote:Still, Kasca is the home for my most-loved conlang Naidda and I would just as soon see that land re-emerge as one of the post-Huyfarah independent splinter-states. Even if it ends up small. I very much want a place in the timeline for potential descendents of Naidda that I or anyone else may create in the future.

I have actually been considering making a Naidda descendant for some time, to be started when I'm done with Orrótx. The resulting language would be spoken in the coastal regions around and south of Pawe, maybe as far south as Tæm Hou on the Huyfarah map.

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Post by Radius Solis »

:D

Hmm. In that case, maybe my next task when I finish Pencek should be to get Naidda in order and actually finish and put online the major revision of the language I've been procrastinating on for almost two years now. This includes a revision of the sound change list and re-deriving all the words, because the original lexicon has a lot of mistakes in it, lots of outcomes I didn't like, and is actually the result of having accidentally used two substantially different sound change lists for two different word sets... ugh. In addition the etymology information is long lost, and so the etymology of every word in the lexicon would have to be figured out by working backwards.

Certain aspects of the grammar will change as well, but not hugely. For one thing I'm going to toss out the animacy hierarchy crap, because I did a very poor job of it and no longer think it fits the language anyway, and replace it with a more robust grammatical-relations system.

The basics of word order - NP and PP and verb complex structure - will stay the same though, as will the overall feel of the language. The phoneme inventory will have only minor changes (merger of /3/ and /I/, for example). The vowel orthography will also change.

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Post by Zhen Lin »

I have just realised that polypersonal marking on the verb is already attested before even Ayāsthi, just not in Adāta... And it seems "conjugated" prepositions are too. (Though, Ayāsthi "conjugated" prepositions are entirely regular [for the moment...] and are presently analysed as clitic + pronoun.) I wonder if I should work that into the history somehow?
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Post by Radius Solis »

Zhen Lin wrote:I have just realised that polypersonal marking on the verb is already attested before even Ayāsthi, just not in Adāta... And it seems "conjugated" prepositions are too. (Though, Ayāsthi "conjugated" prepositions are entirely regular [for the moment...] and are presently analysed as clitic + pronoun.) I wonder if I should work that into the history somehow?


Faralo and Naidda both have polypersonal marking on the verb, yeah. Although Faralo's is only cliticized. Naidda's is fully fused to the point of being defective already. The two languages deliberately share those features, among a few others, as they're adjacent development regions of Ndak Ta. Naidda goes one further and used conjugated prepositions as well, yes; so does Pencek (I confess, I have a fetish for them...).


Incidentally, the Pencek Lexicon is now up.

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Post by Zhen Lin »

I am presently working on the Ayāsthi vocabulary. Much fun - Adāta words reimported via ecclesiastic use of classical, Fáralo words to do with imperialism and governance...

If anybody wants, I have a full list of Adāta words with stress marked (acute for short+stress, circumflex for long+stress) with their etyma, plus verb stems. Glosses are also available, though caveat emptor, since some have undergone semantic shift.

Also... why not have this thread archived and start a new one? It's rather inconvenient to have the current status on page 7. (I wonder if the old threads have already been lost. Ah well.)
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Post by Radius Solis »

Maybe we could prevail upon Legion to link to the family tree post from his first post. Short of that, it may help to keep in mind you can jump to page 7 by editing the URL in your browser's address bar so that the "start" number reads "start=150".

Also I would indeed appreciate the Adata words, in particular the full list of verbs and their stems. I can probably get Dewrad to add the information to the new Adata lexicon page. Also I discovered last night that the word for ox, which is bu:, is absent from the original lexicon page but present in the Adata sample text.

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Post by Corumayas »

It might be useful at this point to have a central repository for information, other than this thread. Maybe someone could put a page on the KQ or FrathWiki, with links to all the langs and maybe some general information about the relay and the world? Or if zompist doesn't mind, maybe such a page could go with the stuff from the first relay on Almeopedia?


I'd like to suggest, in the interest of making a more realistic continuum of languages, that any additional daughters of Adāta should be designed to share developments with one or more of the existing daughters. In other words, a new daughter could be designed as a sister of Æðadĕ, or intermediate between Ayāsth and Mavakhalan, or whatever.

Also, any current or future work on the existing languages-- such as the lexicon expansion project-- could be done in such a way that some early developments are shared. For example, we could agree on some semantic shifts and loans that are shared by several (or all) daughters. I think it would be neat if some of the terminology of Imperial Adāta could be worked out-- words relating to government and the military, names of important provinces, that sort of thing.


Along those lines, here's a short list of geographical names, not already in the lexicon, that I've put through the changes from Ndak Ta to Adāta, with their Faralo equivalents (most of these are places we've been talking about in the history discussion):

Akeladada = Enčélade (Ndok Aisô: Ngahêxôldod)
A'tāx Pētan = Etewg Peidæm (Pencek: Tah Ici)
A'tāx Tali = Lu-Tal (western Huyfárah)
Ēza = Eigə
Hō Tan = Tæm Hou
Mithu, Mōmithu = Miədu (city in S. Huyfárah)
Muphai, Mōmuphai = Muəbaz (Naidda: Momuva'e)
Palie = Palge (Naidda: Pawe)
Ū'sūr = Ussor (capital of Huyfárah)
Xōron Eiel = Eiwəl Gourun
Zi'phē = Boíəba (Ndok Aisô: Oigop'oibauxeu)

And here's a few that were listed at the bottom of the old Adāta lexicon, but don't seem to be on the new page:
Hazīli = Huyfárah
Haralo = Faralo
Kāxad = Kasca
Nara = Naidda
Lasomo = Axôltseubeu
Nokaiso = Ndok Aisô
Kasalad = Xšalad
Kasali = Xšali


Incidentally, is there (or was there ever) a pronunciation guide or phonology for Ndok Aisô? Or anything at all beyond what's on Almeopedia?
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Post by Radius Solis »

Corumayas wrote:Incidentally, is there (or was there ever) a pronunciation guide or phonology for Ndok Aisô? Or anything at all beyond what's on Almeopedia?


Not as far as I'm aware, no. :(

This is probably why my temptation is so strong to overrun the region with daughters of better-described languages, so that we don't have to deal with a language we know almost nothing about. Alternatively we could try asking ghur for a grammar, but meh.

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Post by Legion »

Radius Solis wrote:Maybe we could prevail upon Legion to link to the family tree post from his first post.


Done.

I'd like to suggest, in the interest of making a more realistic continuum of languages, that any additional daughters of Adāta should be designed to share developments with one or more of the existing daughters. In other words, a new daughter could be designed as a sister of Æðadĕ, or intermediate between Ayāsth and Mavakhalan, or whatever.



I am actually doing this for Koyek (no online file yet) which is closely related to Old Kozado (though it is extinct at the time of modern Kozado).

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Post by Zhen Lin »

Adāta lexicon (beware of semantic shifts and reimportation)

Fáralo loanwords relating to imperialism, governance and philosophy.

Also, of the Fáralo loanwords, a few are reimported with classical pronunciation to refer to (usually) Athalē:

báumathbaomast Grand Steward (usually of the imperial palace of Athalē)
mómusezamoumušezə the Assembly (usually of Athalē)
séathiaukserčaok the Emperor (usually of Athalē)
sérthiaukhaserčaoksa the Empress (usually of Athalē)
sérinserin the Empire (usually of Athalē)
ubákubák the imperial household (usually of Athalē)

And, at the moment, one Adāta word is reimported as well:

khíara the Privy Council (usually of the emperor of Athalē)

Also, pursuant to the suggestion that Thāras grows in the intervening time, I am creating Thāraspē (Greater Thāras) as an administrative division of the empire, including Nitazē and extending towards Khalanu, which is a small division unto itself.

Currently, the vocabulary is geared towards a Holy Roman Empire structure (lots of little states with "kings" as their sovereigns), with a central (heriditary) constitutional monarchy and a bicameral parliamentary democracy (since pre-imperial Athalē appears to be one). My proposal for the structure of the Athalē empire is as follows:
  1. Constitutional monarchy, in theory at least, with the Emperor (séathiauk) or Empress (séathiaukha) as the sovereign.
  2. Divided into principalities (dízakalas, ← kingdom) with princes (dízaka, ← king) or princesses (dízakā ← queen) at the top of the local nobility. Princes/princesses had limited sovereignty. Some principalities retained their own local legislative bodies.
  3. Bicameral parliament (mómuseza), with the Privy Council (khíara), comprised of nobility from each principality (including the princes/princesses of course) as the upper house, and a House of Commons (zâthar) as the lower house. The lower house, in theory, is supreme.
  4. Ministries theoretically led by the minister (séanat), a member of the Privy Council, but in practice run by the chief civil servant (húiazarabu ásu).
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Post by Cedh »

Zhen Lin wrote:Adāta lexicon (beware of semantic shifts and reimportation)

Fáralo loanwords relating to imperialism, governance and philosophy.

Thank you very much! I guess these lists date from ~400-500 YP when Imperial Adāta was standardized... am I correct?

Zhen Lin wrote:{proposal for the structure of the Athalē empire}

I like! Only I'd like to know the etymology of zâthar "House of Commons" since I can't find it in the word lists ;)

Corumayas wrote:It might be useful at this point to have a central repository for information, other than this thread. Maybe someone could put a page on the KQ or FrathWiki, with links to all the langs and maybe some general information about the relay and the world? Or if zompist doesn't mind, maybe such a page could go with the stuff from the first relay on Almeopedia?

Great idea! There's the KQ article Edastean languages already, which I'm keeping more or less synchronized with the reference post in this thread. We should indeed add articles about the world and history, and collect this in a category of its own. I'm torn whether to prefer using KQ or Almeopedia. This should probably be decided by zompist himself, and by those who helped create the world in the first place (Radius, Legion, Dewrad, ...?)

BTW, does anyone have an unlabelled (and possibly larger) version of [url=http://www.almeopedia.com/images/0/05/Ranradius.png]this map?
Image[/url]

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Post by Radius Solis »

I too am in favor of Zhen Lin's propositions for the Empire of Athale. Good quality work! :D

cedh audmanh wrote:Great idea! There's the KQ article Edastean languages already, which I'm keeping more or less synchronized with the reference post in this thread. We should indeed add articles about the world and history, and collect this in a category of its own. I'm torn whether to prefer using KQ or Almeopedia. This should probably be decided by zompist himself, and by those who helped create the world in the first place (Radius, Legion, Dewrad, ...?)


I also would be all for a wiki-type system for storing and keeping track of all this information. If people really want to use the KQ I won't argue too much, but... personally I am hesitant to use it for anything anymore. It seems like a high-risk place, there's a history of instability there. If you want to ask Zompist for his permission to use the Almeopedia, feel free... although I hate to clutter up his Almea wiki with too much stuff about this world. When we first moved the Ndak Ta info etc. there, he told me "dozens of articles is fine, but not hundreds." Neek would probably feel much the same way about it. It would be neat to have the freedom of having hundreds of articles, but I don't know of any good place to do that.

BTW, does anyone have an unlabelled (and possibly larger) version of [url=http://www.almeopedia.com/images/0/05/Ranradius.png]this map?
Image[/url]
That particular map came from Zompist. He likely still has the original somewhere, I have no idea whether it's labelled or larger or what. He'd be the person to ask.

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Post by Zhen Lin »

cedh audmanh wrote:
Zhen Lin wrote:Adāta lexicon (beware of semantic shifts and reimportation)

Fáralo loanwords relating to imperialism, governance and philosophy.

Thank you very much! I guess these lists date from ~400-500 YP when Imperial Adāta was standardized... am I correct?


Uh, well, I suppose so, since the loaning takes advantage of monophthongisation to represent certain Fáralo vowels and affrication of the aspirated fricatives - so certainly, it would make sense to posit that this is from that period.

I like! Only I'd like to know the etymology of zâthar "House of Commons" since I can't find it in the word lists ;)


It's a word found on the culture page.
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Post by Corumayas »

Zhen Lin, those text files don't display properly for me-- all the diacriticked characters come out as things like á, î, ī, and so on.


To the extent that I can make some of them out, I have a few criticisms about the Faralo loanwords... or maybe I'm not quite understanding what's going on here properly.

-Adāta words can only be stressed on the initial syllable or a non-initial long vowel; so loans from Faralo with non-initial stress should probably either have the stress revert to the first syllable, or make the stressed vowel long. (This also means that there's no need to actually indicate stress except when it's on a non-initial syllable).

-There's also no /w/ in Adāta.

-Some of the loans seem unlikely for cultural reasons. The Dāiadak strike me as a nation very proud of their own culture and institutions. Would they really adopt foreign words (from a bunch of infidel barbarians no less) to designate their glorious state and its highest offices? Wouldn't they instead use native words with new, specialized meanings, or coin new words from native roots?


Following up on this, I wonder how the political system you describe (which I like) evolved from the governmental systems of the city-states. Athalē was one of the more democratic ones (though not as much so as Khalanu), so the emperor probably isn't descended from a traditional hereditary monarchy. Maybe the empire was founded by a Pericles-like leader, who came to power through the traditional politics of the city-state. The position of "emperor" might then become an office elected (as well as advized) by the khiara and/or zāthar of Athalē.

At some later point, a reform might extend the right of representation in these councils to all the cities in the Rathedān, or even to the whole empire; maybe this was part of a large reorganization that happened around the same time that Imperial Adāta was codified as the language of all government business. Meanwhile, it's quite likely that the office of emperor tended to become hereditary, and the election increasingly symbolic.


At first glance, I also thought: "The Rathedān is where iron-working was invented, and the Dāiadak are more-or-less direct descendents of the Gezoro who invented it. Why would they need to borrow the Faralo word for iron?" The answer seems to be, because Dewrad didn't provide a native word. Which seems odd, after all that he wrote about it in the culture notes. The Faralo lexicon gives an etymon of "ginig", but no such word appears in Ndak Ta so maybe it's from Faraghin. Anyway, there must surely have been a Gezoro word for iron, probably with an Adāta reflex; but maybe we could come up with a good reason why it was lost or replaced.

I just had this idea: I think that in some iron-age cultures, the working of iron was a kind of religious secret, with smiths acting as shamans. Maybe there was such a cult in the Rathedān until Zarakātias' time, surviving from Gezoro times, and the word for "iron" was also the name of a god; and maybe this name was even taboo for religious reasons. And maybe this cult was antithetical to Zarakātias' reformation, and was wiped out; the old word for iron might then become taboo (even if it wasn't before), and a new word would be needed. Though if so, it seems doubtful they'd go to Faralo, a language also associated with an unholy religion. Maybe we could coin a word for it, like the taboo-avoidance words for "bear" in different IE language families...?

Or maybe the word "ginig" is Ndak Ta, and we could derive a regular Adāta reflex of it (I think it'd be "ianix").

Or maybe I'm thinking about this way too much and should go away from the computer for the rest of the evening.
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Post by Radius Solis »

Ah, ginig. I remember that word. That's one of the handful that, out of sheer disorganization and hurry at the time, never made it into the NT lexicon... :oops:

It was supposed to be a borrowing from Gezoro into Ndak Ta. Faralo and Naidda both have reflexes, but yes, it's strange that Adata wouldn't.

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Post by Zhen Lin »

Corumayas wrote:Zhen Lin, those text files don't display properly for me-- all the diacriticked characters come out as things like á, î, ī, and so on.


Change encoding to UTF-8, of course.

- Adāta words can only be stressed on the initial syllable or a non-initial long vowel; so loans from Faralo with non-initial stress should probably either have the stress revert to the first syllable, or make the stressed vowel long. (This also means that there's no need to actually indicate stress except when it's on a non-initial syllable).


I don't see why this should be a problem - English once also only permitted stress on initial syllables (root-initial for verbs, word-initial for nouns, IIRC) but has since evolved to have free stress. That said, lengthening stressed vowels does make sense, although, for Ayāsthi I will keep them short.

-There's also no /w/ in Adāta.


Call it /u/, then.

-Some of the loans seem unlikely for cultural reasons. The Dāiadak strike me as a nation very proud of their own culture and institutions. Would they really adopt foreign words (from a bunch of infidel barbarians no less) to designate their glorious state and its highest offices? Wouldn't they instead use native words with new, specialized meanings, or coin new words from native roots?


Yes, that is a problem. However, look again at the Fáralo - ethnically Edak, but they claim Faraghin heritage to the extent of calling their language Faraghin as well. One possible rationalisation is that the empire consciously modelled itself on Huyfárah, which, regardless of national pride, was the greater power at the time. Or perhaps, some Etúgə priests came over and converted the leader of the time, thereby triggering the imperialist expansion in the first place. (After all, Etúgə emphasises action...)

That said... it is possible to calque some of the Fáralo loans via Ndak Ta, though that would obviously cause collisions - for example, the verb epé (to meet, of councils) would merge with ápe (to sit), and the noun léga (law, decree) would merge with its cognate lezê (word).

Following up on this, I wonder how the political system you describe (which I like) evolved from the governmental systems of the city-states. Athalē was one of the more democratic ones (though not as much so as Khalanu), so the emperor probably isn't descended from a traditional hereditary monarchy. Maybe the empire was founded by a Pericles-like leader, who came to power through the traditional politics of the city-state. The position of "emperor" might then become an office elected (as well as advized) by the khiara and/or zāthar of Athalē.


Or, it could be a Julius Caesar scenario. Actually, one element I forgot to mention was the option of having a theocratic element. After all, Athalē is the hometown of Zārakātias.

At first glance, I also thought: "The Rathedān is where iron-working was invented, and the Dāiadak are more-or-less direct descendents of the Gezoro who invented it. Why would they need to borrow the Faralo word for iron?" The answer seems to be, because Dewrad didn't provide a native word. Which seems odd, after all that he wrote about it in the culture notes. The Faralo lexicon gives an etymon of "ginig", but no such word appears in Ndak Ta so maybe it's from Faraghin. Anyway, there must surely have been a Gezoro word for iron, probably with an Adāta reflex; but maybe we could come up with a good reason why it was lost or replaced.


Hmm, yes.

I just had this idea: I think that in some iron-age cultures, the working of iron was a kind of religious secret, with smiths acting as shamans. Maybe there was such a cult in the Rathedān until Zarakātias' time, surviving from Gezoro times, and the word for "iron" was also the name of a god; and maybe this name was even taboo for religious reasons. And maybe this cult was antithetical to Zarakātias' reformation, and was wiped out; the old word for iron might then become taboo (even if it wasn't before), and a new word would be needed. Though if so, it seems doubtful they'd go to Faralo, a language also associated with an unholy religion. Maybe we could coin a word for it, like the taboo-avoidance words for "bear" in different IE language families...?


One of the main gods is the smith-god, so it seems unlikely that iron would be a taboo divine name.

Or maybe the word "ginig" is Ndak Ta, and we could derive a regular Adāta reflex of it (I think it'd be "ianix").


Replacing it with a reflex seems like a good idea. I'm not sure whether it should have a final /x/ or /g/ - one of the Gezoro words to do with metalworks that did make it through has a final /g/ instead of /x/.
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Post by Dewrad »

It's actually possible that I didn't derive a native word from "ginig" because I didn't like the Adata reflex. However, a native word is probably needed. Given the religious significance of metalworking, I suggest a reflex of Gezoro lo:jaig, which is lo:jai "god" (seen in lo:zera "religion") with the same suffix as seen in xekha:g "ore", and which I assume to be an inanimate nominalising suffix (actually, it might be a fossilised Gezoro case form, IIRC). So Adata for "iron" is lo:za:g.
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Post by Corumayas »

Zhen Lin wrote:Change encoding to UTF-8, of course.

Oh, right. I'll look at it again when I get home.

I don't see why this should be a problem - English once also only permitted stress on initial syllables (root-initial for verbs, word-initial for nouns, IIRC) but has since evolved to have free stress. That said, lengthening stressed vowels does make sense, although, for Ayāsthi I will keep them short.

Ah, that makes sense, it's a small enough change. Only a very few loanwords would have noninitial stress on a short vowel then, but I guess that's actually fine.

Yes, that is a problem. However, look again at the Fáralo - ethnically Edak, but they claim Faraghin heritage to the extent of calling their language Faraghin as well. One possible rationalisation is that the empire consciously modelled itself on Huyfárah, which, regardless of national pride, was the greater power at the time. Or perhaps, some Etúgə priests came over and converted the leader of the time, thereby triggering the imperialist expansion in the first place. (After all, Etúgə emphasises action...)

That said... it is possible to calque some of the Fáralo loans via Ndak Ta, though that would obviously cause collisions - for example, the verb epé (to meet, of councils) would merge with ápe (to sit), and the noun léga (law, decree) would merge with its cognate lezê (word).

Calquing via Ndak Ta seems less than ideal, yeah. I was thinking some already-existing Adāta words could be coopted for those kinds of meanings; for example, there are two verbs for "defeat", maybe one of them could be the root of words like province ("conquered territory") and emperor or general ("conqueror"), or something like that.

Loaning from Faralo is fine too, I'm sure; we just need a good explanation, given the cultural animosity/rivalry there.

Or, it could be a Julius Caesar scenario. Actually, one element I forgot to mention was the option of having a theocratic element. After all, Athalē is the hometown of Zārakātias.

That seems very likely, yes.

One of the main gods is the smith-god, so it seems unlikely that iron would be a taboo divine name.

Right! I forgot about that. Anyway, this is resolved now; thanks Dewrad!

BTW, Dewrad, I've been wondering: is it Zārakātias or Zarākātias? It's spelled the first way most of the time, but the second way on the culture page (three times, so it doesn't look like a mere typo).
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zompist
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Post by zompist »

Just as a note on borrowing: cultures are happy to borrow words from the infidel-- look at all the Spanish words from Arabic (or the Arabic words from Greek).

Corumayas
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Post by Corumayas »

True; but as far as I know the Spanish king was never called "calif" or "emir". I think words like that may be more likely to be treated as culture-specific terms.
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Legion
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Post by Legion »

Corumayas wrote:True; but as far as I know the Spanish king was never called "calif" or "emir". I think words like that may be more likely to be treated as culture-specific terms.


On the other hand, see how many different cultures are using derivatives of the word "khan".

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Post by Radius Solis »

Legion wrote:
Corumayas wrote:True; but as far as I know the Spanish king was never called "calif" or "emir". I think words like that may be more likely to be treated as culture-specific terms.


On the other hand, see how many different cultures are using derivatives of the word "khan".


And "Caesar".

Edit: for that matter, I really don't see why Athale shouldn't consciously model itself on Huyfarah to some extent. Nothing succeeds like success... and ambitious rulers, if they're smart, will examine what other countries previously did to become successful.
Last edited by Radius Solis on Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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