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zompist bboard • View topic - Rangyayo - an East Asian language of the elixir of life

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:51 am 
Avisaru
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This is a fantastic conlang! A lot of culture and historical background, along with a very cool script! Makes me want to do the exact same thing, but then I would know it was just a cheap ripoff and it definitely wouldn't be done nearly as well. Do you have any lessons up for it?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:59 am 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:51 am 
Lebom
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I've just discovered a few days ago that a native Korean conlanger commented on the phonetic values of Rangyayo Yenmun (Hangul) in September. I was a bit excited and thrilled to see how a native Hangul user would react when they see Rangyayo sentences written in mixed script of Hanji and Yenmun (Hanja and Hangul).

Here is his comment,

Is the writing of hangul in Rangyayo correct?
Hello. I'm Korean native and have made artlang marE. I think you have made this conlang with using system of Hanja with Hangul. So I think that this conlang should have natural feelings when Korean users see it. But I think it is not.

in the Korean, ㅋ corresponds into [kh], and ㄱ corresponds into [k] - so you just used ㄲ as [g]. But at the sense of Korean, ㄱ corresponds into /g/ and [g], and ㅋ corresponds into /k/ and [k], and ㄲ is another sound : so that will be make Koreans chaos when you use '食뽀마니외' as [yabomanioi], they will read it as sik'ppomanioe - then will ask to you why use ㅃ as [b].

I think you can change phonetic values of Hangul as you want, but If you have a intend for use Hangul on this language as similar of regular hangul, I recommend change /ㄲ/ to ㄱ, /ㄱ/ to ㅋ, /ㄸ/ to ㄷ, /ㄷ/ to /ㅌ/, /ㅃ/ to ㅂ, /ㅂ/ to ㅍ, /ㅓ/ to /ㅔ/, and so on. - Ellif (talk) 15:01, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

I think in general it's not a very positive comment :(

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:04 am 
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I don't really think it is positive or negative. Take it for what it is. He is making a good point that using the tense consonants (or whatever they call them) as voiced consonants may confuse Korean speakers. However, everything he said rests on a major assumption, which he stated himself: "you have made this conlang ... with Hangul ... So I think that this conlang should have natural feelings when Korean users see it." This is by no means necessarily true, especially considering some of the crazy and seemingly unintuitive ways that the Roman alphabet has been manipulated to suit various languages. So you can either alter your spelling to make it more natural to Korean speakers, or you can keep your system, knowing that it will seem unnatural and "chaotic" to Korean speakers.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:03 pm 
Lebom
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CONLANG Code: C:S/G v1.1 !lafh+>x cN:L:S:G a+ x:0 n4d:2d !B A--- E-- L--- N0 Id/s/v/c k- ia--@:+ p+ s+@ m-- o+ P--- S++ Neo-Khitanese


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:28 am 
Lebom
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Below is my reply to the above comment on Rangyayo Yenmun (Korean Hangul) sent by a Korean conlanger.
I hope it doesn't give him/her the idea that I'm being defensive lol...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seeing that Rangyayo is using a mixed script of Hanji and Yenmun (Hanja and Hangul), how cool is that to have a native Korean conlanger commented on my conlang. :) I was excited and thrilled!

For the phonetic values, you are right that some of them represented by Rangyayo Yenmun are different from that represented by nowadays Korean Hangul. However, somehow there are traces for us to believe that the Rangyayo version of phonetic values may be closer to what the Hangul alphabet were originally pronounced in the document of Hunminjeongeum (corresponding to the Middle Korean language).

First of all, Hunminjeongeum states that the doubled letters were once used to represent voiced consonants 전 탁음 자(全濁音字) - ㄲ /g/, ㄸ /d/, ㅃ /b/... ㅉ, ㅆ, ㆅ. And for vowel letter ㅓ, if we compare the corresponding Sino pronunciations of the Hanja that contains the vowel ㅓ, we are able to conclude that ㅓ is actually closer to /e/ in Middle Korean rather than /ɤ/ in Modern Korean (there could be a vowel shift when Middle Korean has evolved into Modern Korean). For example 선(鮮)is /ɕiɛn/ in Chinese, /sen/ in Japanese and /tiên/ in Vietnamese; and 건(健)is /tɕiɛn/ in Chinese, /ken/ in Japanese and /kiện/ in Vietnamese. And diphthong letters ㅐ ㅔ ㅚ may originally represent diphthongs in Middle Korean but have undergone monophthongization and become monophthongs in Modern Korean. For example, 새(賽)is /sai/ in Chinese, /sai/ in Japanese and /tái/ in Vietnamese.

About the pronunciations of Rangyayo Hanji, nearly each Hanji has two pronunciations, like 食, the first one is the native pronounciation /ya/ as in 食쁘 /yabu/ "eat", the second one is the Sino pronouncation /jik/ as in 食塩 /jikyem/ "table salt (salt for eating)". The relationships between the two pronunciations can be paralleled with Kunyomi and Onyomi in Japanese :) --Deslee (talk) 12:28, November 12, 2013 (UTC)

The main reason why you were not very impressed with the phonetic values of Rangyayo Yenmun, can be that the Hangul alphabet is only used by one language, the Modern Korean language. If it were used by more than one language like the Latin alphabet, in which many letters represent different phonemes in different languages, the Rangyayo version would be easier to swallow than it is now. For example, the Latin letter Y, has the sound values /j/ /i/ /ai/ in English but /y/ or /ʏ/ in the Scandinavian languages and in German; J has the sound values /dʒ/ in English but it is the palatal approximant /j/ in the great majority of other Germanic languages, Uralic and Slavic languages that use the Latin alphabet, and it is /x ~ h/ in Spanish and /ʒ/ in many other Romance languages.--Deslee (talk) 13:16, November 12, 2013 (UTC)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:43 am 
Avisaru
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it's Hanja


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:49 am 
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not in his conlang


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:53 am 
Avisaru
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EDIT: scratch this post I was just too stupid to read the text properly

NEVERMIND


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:16 pm 
Sumerul
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cia-cia is written in hangul

t d ɗ
ㄸㄷㅌ

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:27 am 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:06 am 
Lebom
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It has been a long time since I last updated this thread. I miss my fellow conlangers :)
I'm now eager to present the debut of my "Learning Rangyayo Vocabulary" course on Memrise app. (my Memrise ID: jangkilee)

To use the course with Memrise, one needs to

1. Create an account. Go to memrise.com and choose a username or sign in with Facebook.

2. Choose a course. In the language section of the site alone there are courses in over 200 languages available, including Rangyayo. Search for keyword "Rangyayo" (http://www.memrise.com/courses/english/?q=rangyayo). Once you've found the "Learn Rangyayo Vocabulary" course, click on 'Start Learning'!

3. 'Grow' your vocabulary. Memrise uses a garden as a metaphor for memory. When you start learning a course, the vocabulary items will be planted as 'seeds'. As you are tested on them through typing and multiple choice tests, they be transferred from your 'greenhouse' (short term memory) into your 'garden' (long term memory).

4. 'Water' your vocabulary. Once an item of vocabulary is in your long term memory, it will need to be watered (tested on) periodically. If you get the answer right in the test, you won't need to water it again very soon, and vice versa. Growing and watering items and creating mems will give you a certain number of points each time.

5. You can also download Memrise app onto your mobile phone to learn Rangyayo.
IPhone app: https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/memrise ... 66718?mt=8
Android app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... nion&hl=en


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:31 pm 
Sanci
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Desmond, I know this is such a horribly late reply; I just want to thank you so much for creating that memrise course! My birthday was on the same day you posted the last post, and so you could not have given me a better gift! Over the last year I have been absolutely obsessed with Rangyayo, creating many flashcards and grammar charts to teach myself; seriously, I write simple Rangyayo sentences every day... I haven't had much time or honestly interest in conlanging myself, and what's more is that I have had this urge to learn an East Asian language more fluently, and I have found myself much more excited over learning Rangyayo than Japanese or Korean or Chinese etc etc.... I just love this conlang so much. Maybe one day when I have kids, I will raise them with this language; I know that is remarkably insane and almost abusive, but it has been a tempting thought for some time.

Recently I made a map of Rangya Islands (simply on paper with pen), but I made sure that each and every city and town properly corresponded to your list on Rangya wiki page. One day I will make a digital version and show you so that I can see if you approve, but until then let me tell you some things about it:

1. I made the main island a long skinny thing much like Okinawa, but more north-south... at the south end of the island is a river delta where the cities of Suiyuchen and Shichen and Senphangtsyu etc lay; that is Shichen county.

2. In the river delta is an island, and that island I thought would be Urarinkhyu, so it sits in the midst of Shichen county. Then south of the delta and the main island, extends a long chain of little tiny islands much like the Florida keys; I thought that would make up the rest of Dotsin prefecture, making it quite remote and resort-like, but with Urarin at its very north and thus part of the Shichen metropolitan area.

3. North of Shichen county, as we go up the island, we find, in order towards the north, Rikuk, Hakhei and Hangphu at the northernmost of the island.

4. Then I drew some smaller, rocky islands east of the main island, in two groups; one being Jakang and the other Dukhyu. I made sure they were far enough from the big island to allow separate languages or dialects to have formed.

Okay so obviously this is your concountry and whatnot, so I would much much prefer if you would make a detailed map yourself... but in the meantime I just had to do it! Soon I will post a picture to see what you think. Of course you will have different ideas, but I am sure some of it will inspire you! :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:10 am 
Smeric
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This is an awesome language! The verbal morphology seems like a simplification of English. Overall, the native words look like someone took a Swahili-esque language generator and mangled it until it looked like Mandarin and Korean had a lovechild which was adopted by Japanese. :-D
Are there any borrowings from Rangyayo into other languages in your world (especially Japanese, Dutch, Portuguese, and English)?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:16 am 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:23 am 
Lebom
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