Flags

Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
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din
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Re: Flags

Post by din »

I've finally come up with a design that I like, so I decided to get a little creative with Photoshop.

National Flag of Miott

Image

Specifications: The dimensions are 12:7, with three horizontal bars of indigo, each 1/7 of the flag's height, separated by two horizontal bars of white, both 2/7 of the flag's height.

Symbolism: Being an island nation in the stormy north Atlantic, the ocean is of great importance. The flag is an abstraction of the ocean, with the three layers representing waves. The bars also represent continuity and endurance.

Here's a regular image:

Image

Let me know what you think.
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Re: Flags

Post by jal »

Love it! Simple yet beautiful. Noone would blink an eye if they saw this flag, which imho is good design (i.e. it fits right in the flags we're accustomed to).


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Re: Flags

Post by Vijay »

Tbh, when I looked at that first picture of the flag on a flagpole, the first thing that came to my mind was "Israel." :D

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Re: Flags

Post by din »

Thanks, Jal!

Vijay, I suppose there's some resemblance, especially in terms of color, but they're still quite different. I mean, the absence of the star of David is the main one, haha, and the blue stripes are much more pronounced on this flag
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Re: Flags

Post by jal »

Or Greece, which is also a (partially) island nation having a blue/white flag. But again, that's good: look at the flags of Europe, there are so many that resemble each other (all the Scandinavian ones, many with red/white/blue, many with red/white), but are still somewhat different. I like this one because it has a design no country has, yet doesn't look completely outlandish.


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Re: Flags

Post by Jonlang »

That's a very good European style flag. Me likey.
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Re: Flags

Post by din »

Thanks guys!

Yeah, the blue and white feels very maritime, which suits an island nation. Plus the horizontal bars should be stronger than vertical ones in the strong wind. The north Atlantic is a pretty windy place.

I'm having too much fun with Photoshop (I'm getting to know the software; I always worked with Paint Shop Pro in the past). I've been using my concountry as an excuse to practice. Here's another 'picture' of the flag flying on a pole. I think it looks more realistic than the first attempt.

Image


And a potential candidate for the coat of arms

Image
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Re: Flags

Post by Jonlang »

That does look pretty good. The flag looks very much like it belongs in the real world. No one would think anything of it if they saw it flying somewhere.

The coat of arms though - as nice as it is - you'll need to come up with some sort of mythological backstory as to why a green dragon and thistle are on the coat of arms, seeing as thistles are very much associated with Scotland and dragons are very european.
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Re: Flags

Post by jal »

That. Also, the dragon isn't coat-of-arms-looking enough. Coats of arms typically are very complex, with all these tiny little details etc. See here for examples and inspiration.


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Re: Flags

Post by din »

Thanks :)

With regards to the coat of arms: I do have a background story. The dragon has been my avatar on this forum since I joined. I wrote the post below 3½ years ago (I'm 100% the post has been pruned, since), in a thread about creation mythsː
Miott) is an island nation. I work from the perspective that the islands actually exist here today. After a long domination of catholicism, their views on the world and its creation are similar to those of other catholics.

They do have traditional mythology, though, involving Emion /'əmjən/, a dragon-like creature (my avatar), who basically personifies the North Atlantic ocean surrounding the island (hence the tail), as well as the weather (hence the wings). The Miott see Emion as the protector of the islands, but at the same time they are at the mercy of his erratic behavior and angry outbursts. Traditionally, the Miott did not have a universal creation myth or a universal god. They believed that different locations on the earth had their own creatures who, like Emion, manifested themselves through the weather and other natural phenomena. The world and the universe were simply 'there'--an eternal given, inhabited by all kinds of creatures, including creatures like Emion (known as node /'noðə/)

Any "end of the world-scenario" would be brought about by the wrath of one of these node, either because of repeated attacks (floods, erosion, storms...), or more violent events (volcanic eruptions, earthquakes) destroying a region. A node lashes out when he wants to protect his home (against another node), or, to put it simply, because he's a hormonal idiot who doesn't know his own strength and can't think straight when he's angry--to the point that he destroys his own home. 
I added the thistle for fun a long time ago (9 years ago, according to the date stamp of the file... damn!), to see how it would balance out the shapes. I never actually used it, but I came across the drawing with the thistle again last week, and decided that I quite liked it.

I had to retrace the original drawing as a vector, because the original was simply a sketch in MS Paint (done with a pen and tablet), and I'd lost access to an earlier vector copy (due to a software change).

Of course, the thistle is a flower that grows on the islands, and over in the Map of Miott thread, we're having a discussion on its possible political history is actually steering towards a long Scottish influence, so in that sense, it actually kind of makes sense to have it in the coat of arms.

jal wrote:That. Also, the dragon isn't coat-of-arms-looking enough. Coats of arms typically are very complex, with all these tiny little details etc. See here for examples and inspiration.


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Believe me, I know what coats of arms look like ;) What you're thinking of is the elaborate supports and frills they put around them to make things look more important. If you look at the actual shield (the escutcheon), though, they aren't much more complex than what I proposed above. In fact, many of them are a lot simpler (just look at Argentina and Albania on the very first page of the link you posted).

Let's look at Luxembourg (because of its relative similarity).

What you're thinking of is this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... mbourg.svg

And what you should be thinking of is this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... rg.svg.png


Sure, it's not a typical European dragon, nor does it look anything like an east Asian dragon, but as you can read above, its form does have a history.
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Re: Flags

Post by jal »

din wrote:What you're thinking of is
You're mind-reading skills are a bit off, because I was actually thinking about only the coat of arms itself :). But never mind, it's your coat of arms :). It's just that though the flag looks superb, the coat of arms looks... still a bit amateurish (note: not that I could do it better, mind you!).


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Re: Flags

Post by din »

Fair enough. You did say it lacked "lots of little details", which most of them lack, so that was the source of miscommunication. What would make it less amateurish, for you? I'm fully aware that the style I drew it in is not very serious or menacing looking, and that the dragon doesn't look as strong as we're used to from heraldry. It was a style I picked on purpose (a decade ago) for the traditional folk art. I guess it's too cutesy?



I'd also like your opinion on Argentina's hat-on-a-stick, though: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... na.svg.png ;)
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Re: Flags

Post by jal »

din wrote:Fair enough. You did say it lacked "lots of little details", which most of them lack, so that was the source of miscommunication. What would make it less amateurish, for you? I'm fully aware that the style I drew it in is not very serious or menacing looking, and that the dragon doesn't look as strong as we're used to from heraldry. It was a style I picked on purpose (a decade ago) for the traditional folk art. I guess it's too cutesy?
It's... difficult to explain. The lines are off, like it's a quick hand drawing. It needs some polishing. And perhaps less thick lines.
I'd also like your opinion on Argentina's hat-on-a-stick, though: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... na.svg.png ;)
Totally rediculous, but I couldn't draw hands like that (or a hat like that). They still look like professionally drawn hands.


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Re: Flags

Post by Jonlang »

The only issue I can see with the Emion backstory is that Emion seems to be a benevolent dragon, something which doesn't really occur in European dragon mythologies, dragons are nearly always malevolent, evil and/or selfish.
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Re: Flags

Post by din »

jal wrote:
din wrote:Fair enough. You did say it lacked "lots of little details", which most of them lack, so that was the source of miscommunication. What would make it less amateurish, for you? I'm fully aware that the style I drew it in is not very serious or menacing looking, and that the dragon doesn't look as strong as we're used to from heraldry. It was a style I picked on purpose (a decade ago) for the traditional folk art. I guess it's too cutesy?
It's... difficult to explain. The lines are off, like it's a quick hand drawing. It needs some polishing. And perhaps less thick lines.
Oh, if that's all, that should be doable. You're right though, it was a quick drawing done by hand, traced digitally (which is a slow process, but at least you can manipulate the lines later on.
dyolf wrote:The only issue I can see with the Emion backstory is that Emion seems to be a benevolent dragon, something which doesn't really occur in European dragon mythologies, dragons are nearly always malevolent, evil and/or selfish.
Well, I don't know how clear this was from the story I wrote, but he is very selfish. The island and the surrounding water is his home, so he does what he likes, often with little regard for the consequences, so the people are at his mercy, to a large extent. So he's short-tempered and foolish, but at the same time, he's hostile towards outsiders, so he also protects the island against attackers.

Other than that, I didn't intend it to be a typically European myth. It's kind of a more distantly related culture in the periphery, and I want some room for creativity :P
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Re: Flags

Post by mèþru »

I was thinking a nice cross might Miott fit the whole Northern Periphery of Europe Club (Nordic Cross, St. Andrew's Cross, St. Patrick's Cross). It would fit nicely under the latest ideas about the nation's history I posted on your thread.
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Re: Flags

Post by din »

Hm, I don't think the people of Miott would be so happy about being closely associated with the Nordic countries. I think they're too proud and nationalistic for that ;)
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Re: Flags

Post by shanoxilt »

Image

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Re: Flags

Post by KathTheDragon »

All I can think of is "bees"

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Re: Flags

Post by jal »

Haha, yeah, bees without bees.


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Re: Flags

Post by Pole, the »

The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.

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Re: Flags

Post by shanoxilt »

KathTheDragon wrote:All I can think of is "bees"
Well, the English name of the language is "Common Honey", so that is to bee expected.

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