zompist bboard

So, I have translated a favorite inspirational piece titled 'Desiderata' into my approximation of undifferentiated, somewhat regularized Vulgar Latin. My aim is to arrive at a putative, common sort of Vulgar Latin that would have been intelligible throughout the provinces circa AD 500, when I assume mutual intelligibility was on the verge of being lost. I am eager to learn about other attempts in this vein, and I would welcome any comments or criticism, as I am striving for authenticity. I'd love to show you, but can't seem to find a document extension is allowed. Any help?

Check the Natural Languages Section.

Didnt know Vulgar latin was a constructed language =O Remarkable coincident it fits IE model then

Leaving aside the terminological difficulties inherent to the name "Vulgar Latin" (of which I am sure you are aware already), I would suggest that the begining of the sixth century is perhaps too late a target date for an "undifferentiated" Vulgar Latin: epigraphic evidence suggests that by this point some of the main isoglosses separating the various Romance varieties were already solidly in place. On the other hand, if you go back to (say) the end of the first century, while you have a largely "undifferentiated" VL, you also have something which is simply a slightly more analytical version of Classical Latin, complete with case inflection, vocalic quantity and all.

Were I to attempt a translation such as this, I'd probably prefer to pick a target place, as well as time. Perhaps Desiderata as translated by someone living somewhere in Provincia Narbonensis. This variety could be considered ancestral to the Gallo-Romance group, comprising the Oïl and Oc dialects of France, Rhaeto-Romance, Catalan and the "Gallo-Italian" languages. Therefore we'd be looking at a variety which has the collapse of the CL vowel system, intervocalic lenition and merger of "palatals" derived from CL /tj/ and /kj/, but before such differentiating changes like tonic diphthongisation of mid vowels.

As an example of what we're discussing, let us take the first sentence of the poem. For the variety described above, I would suggest something like the following translation:
The orthography used is not exceptional in Romance studies: the underdots indicating mid-close vowels, while the caudae indicate mid-open vowels. The prime symbol ′ marks palatalisation. I've tried to stick to those words attested in all of the daughter languages, although I am somewhat dubious about frẹ́χta for "haste", as it only appears to be attested in this sense in Italian fretta.

Dewrad wrote:Leaving aside the terminological difficulties inherent to the name "Vulgar Latin" (of which I am sure you are aware already), I would suggest that the begining of the sixth century is perhaps too late a target date for an "undifferentiated" Vulgar Latin: epigraphic evidence suggests that by this point some of the main isoglosses separating the various Romance varieties were already solidly in place. On the other hand, if you go back to (say) the end of the first century, while you have a largely "undifferentiated" VL, you also have something which is simply a slightly more analytical version of Classical Latin, complete with case inflection, vocalic quantity and all.

Were I to attempt a translation such as this, I'd probably prefer to pick a target place, as well as time. Perhaps Desiderata as translated by someone living somewhere in Provincia Narbonensis. This variety could be considered ancestral to the Gallo-Romance group, comprising the Oïl and Oc dialects of France, Rhaeto-Romance, Catalan and the "Gallo-Italian" languages. Therefore we'd be looking at a variety which has the collapse of the CL vowel system, intervocalic lenition and merger of "palatals" derived from CL /tj/ and /kj/, but before such differentiating changes like tonic diphthongisation of mid vowels.

As an example of what we're discussing, let us take the first sentence of the poem. For the variety described above, I would suggest something like the following translation:

Code: Select all

u̯áða kon kálma tọon kamíno ẹ́ntre el rumọ́re e la frẹ́χta,
e sou̯ę́n′is-te de la pádze kẹ́ pǫ́des enkontrár en silẹ́ntso.

The orthography used is not exceptional in Romance studies: the underdots indicating mid-close vowels, while the caudae indicate mid-open vowels. The prime symbol ′ marks palatalisation. I've tried to stick to those words attested in all of the daughter languages, although I am somewhat dubious about frẹ́χta for "haste", as it only appears to be attested in this sense in Italian fretta.

Thank you so much for your comments. It has been two years since you made them, but I've been away. I've taken my challange up again, and as you are obviously somewhat knowledgable (and thoughtful) over these things, I hope to hear from you again. And yes, I think it would certainly be easier to pick a time and place for my (re)construct. I just don't know if it would be as much fun:)