Sound Change Quickie Thread

[WeepingElf]

You're asking if ɔ > wɑ by itself is an exceptional change. Why not? Spanish had o > we without affecting its other vowels.

Actually, ɔ > we; the closer vowel /o/ remained unchanged.

[CatDoom]

Also the example languages are the Northwest Caucasian family.

I I've read that there are a few Papuan and Australian languages that do something similar as well.

You're asking if ɔ > wɑ by itself is an exceptional change. Why not? Spanish had o > we without affecting its other vowels.

Actually, ɔ > we; the closer vowel /o/ remained unchanged.

I'd never heard that! That's almost exactly the change I was looking for, thank you!

[gach]

Also the example languages are the Northwest Caucasian family.

I I've read that there are a few Papuan and Australian languages that do something similar as well.

That's certainly said of a number of languages from the Sepik area, specifically that all or most of vowel frontness in a given language comes from adjacent palatal consonants and vowel roundness from adjacent /w/. In Iatmul, the one such language I've actually taken a closer look at, this specifically isn't the case and you really have to suppose the vowel qualities phonemic.

[Aili Meilani]

How can I get rid of /z/ in an interesting way?

[Whimemsz]

How can I get rid of /z/ in an interesting way?

Some options (and you can use different ones for different environments, if you like!): drop it completely, change it to [h], change it to [s], palatalize it before or after front vowels, change it to [r] (either intervocalically or everywhere).

[Aili Meilani]

Thanks, but these are obvious enough, even for me, that they're not exactly what I had in mind when I wrote "interesting".

[ObsequiousNewt]

Thanks, but these are obvious enough, even for me, that they're not exactly what I had in mind when I wrote "interesting".

Debucallize it, then use it to cause lenition of the next consonant. Bonus: mutation.

[gach]

How can I get rid of /z/ in an interesting way?

Maybe /z/ > /ð/ > /j/. Still not too exotic but at least a bit less expected.

[Nortaneous]

z > l > ɗ
z > l > ɫ > ʕ
z > l > n
z > r > ʀ
z > r > ʀ > ɐ̯ / V_
z > r > ʀ̆ (uvular/pharyngeal tap)
z > r > ɻ > ɖ
z > r > ɻ > ɭ
z > ð > v > w
z > ð > v > w > b
z > ð > v > w > ɡ͡b
z > ð > v > w > ɡ͡b > ɓ
z > ð > v > w > ɡ͡b > ʼḅ (preglottalized nonexplosive stop)
z > ð > v > w > ɡ͡b > gʘ
z > ð > v > w > g
z > ð > v > w > g > ŋ
z > ð > v > w > g > ħ
z > ð > v > f
z > ð > ɣ
z > ɦ

to be even more interesting, have different reflexes in different environments, say z > l and then l > ʎ > j / _V[+front] and > ɫ > ʕ / _V[-front] or something but you can figure out those possibilities yourself. some of those intermediate steps are pretty interchangeable so if you have l but not r and don't want them to merge you can replace most of the l intermediates with r (though r > ɗ strikes me as pretty unlikely)

[Aili Meilani]

Wow, thank you!

[R.Rusanov]

z > ts is cool. you can use it to introduce consonant gradation in a romance language, e.x.

casum > káso > kás > kás > kɑ́s

casōs > kásos > kázəs > kátsə > káts

[Nortaneous]

z > ts seems like a pretty implausible change

[احمکي ارش-ھجن]

would the sound changes of these be plausable?
/ɸ/ → /f/
/β/ → /v/

It seems logical to me, if over time one's teeth eventually touches to become labio-dental. But I'm not a linguist, so I wouldn't know.

[Nortaneous]

very plausible, very common, probably happened in the germanic languages

[R.Rusanov]

z > ts seems like a pretty implausible change

German begs to differ.

[Hallow XIII]

did you conclude this on the basis of the orthography

grand moment of intelligence

[R.Rusanov]

Your point is really bolstered by the lack of capitalization and punctuation. It gives off a air of ennui and "I can't even" that would make even the most uptight tumblerite guffaw. I give your post a 10/10 and have recommended it to all my acquaintances. God bless you for this post, my man. May your Christmas be merry and your wives ever-fertile.

Best Regards,
An Ardent Admirer~

[jmcd]

German <z> is pronounced /ts/ but doesn't come from /z/. It comes from /t/. <z> is used in several languages for /ts/ or /dz/, especially if they lack /z/. This is probably due to Ancient Greek having had a /dz/ > /z/ change.

[sangi39]

Your point is really bolstered by the lack of capitalization and punctuation. It gives off a air of ennui and "I can't even" that would make even the most uptight tumblerite guffaw. I give your post a 10/10 and have recommended it to all my acquaintances. God bless you for this post, my man. May your Christmas be merry and your wives ever-fertile.

Best Regards,
An Ardent Admirer~

Either way, Hallow's point is generally correct in that Modern High German /ts/ doesn't derive from /z/, but instead derives from /t/ as part of the second phase of the High German Consonant Shift. The use of <z> is purely orthographic.

EDIT: ninja'd by jmcd

[Hallow XIII]

Yes.

Your point is really bolstered by the lack of capitalization and punctuation. It gives off a air of ennui and "I can't even" that would make even the most uptight tumblerite guffaw. I give your post a 10/10 and have recommended it to all my acquaintances. God bless you for this post, my man. May your Christmas be merry and your wives ever-fertile.

Best Regards,
An Ardent Admirer~

this looks suspiciously like preformulated durr-hurr you can't punctuate tripe so let me say for the record that the air of ennui and i can't even is wholly intended

[Nortaneous]

if you debuccalize z to h you can follow that with h > ɛː like in greek

[Herr Dunkel]

z > l > ɬ
z > l > ɮ
z > l > ɣ
z > r > ʀ > ɣ
z > r > ɽ > ɖ
z > ð > v > m
z > ð > v > ɱ
z > ð > w > gw

Some more changes to add to diversity

[Hallow XIII]

Ironically enough...

z → l → ɬ → tɬ → ts

[Herr Dunkel]

Hey, these could also maybe do:

z > l > ɫ > ʟ
z > l > ɫ > ʟ > ɡʟ > kx
z > l > ɮ > dɮ > ǁ

[WeepingElf]

if you debuccalize z to h you can follow that with h > ɛː like in greek

Where in Greek did /h/ become /ɛː/??? You are probably thinking of how the Phoenician letter heth became Greek eta. Like the case of German <z> involving no /z/ > /ts/ sound change, the case of Greek eta did not involve a /h/ > /ɛː/ sound change at all.