Sound Change Quickie Thread

[Drydic]

How would one expect aspirate fricatives to arise?

A good article for this is here:http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacqu ... _from_Pumi

Whoa, that's an excellent paper. Brb, dumping info on Frathwiki…

Please give a link when you get done, for those of us who can't access that site.

Gonna be at http://www.frathwiki.com/Aspiration. Won't be done today, tho…

fair enough, much appreciated.

[Pogostick Man]

How plausible would C̥ʼ → C̬[+implosive] / V_V be?

[Bristel]

How plausible would C̥ʼ → C̬[+implosive] / V_V be?

Let me parse this for my own illumination:

How plausible is it for a devoiced or voiceless ejective consonant to become a voiced implosive consonant between vowels?

[Jana Masala]

How would I derive a series of pharyngealized (or velarized) labials? Something along the lines of:

p pˤ
b bˤ
m mˤ
ɸ ɸˤ
β w*

*Also, could /w/ have descended from /βˤ/—>/wˤ/—/w/?

[----]

Perhaps sequences of uvulars+/w/, or something like that.

[Jetboy]

How would I derive a series of pharyngealized (or velarized) labials?

Perhaps contraction of neighboring vowels, with /a/ vowels triggering velarization on the proceeding consonant? Or the same thing but with apocope?

[ná'oolkiłí]

Clusters with laterals? Apparently something like that happened in NWC languages.

[Qwynegold]

I've been toying with a new idea for a group of related conlangs. (*sigh* I get too many ideas.) The phoneme inventory is similar to this for all of them:

/m n ɲ ŋ ŋʷ/
/p b t d tʷ dʷ k ɡ kʷ ɡʷ q (ɢ) ʡ ʔ/
/tɕ dʑ/
/ɸ f v s z sʷ zʷ ɕ ʑ x ɣ xʷ ʁ ʢ/
/l ɻ j ʟ w/
/ɨ ɐ/
(I was gonna get rid of ɢ, but forgot to make such a sound change. Now it's a little difficult, so I'll do that later...)

I'm not sure about stress, maybe it'll be penultimate.

In the proto-stage the syllable structure was CV(C), and a glottal stop was added at the end of a word utterance finally, if that word would otherwise have ended with a vowel. In the later stage of the language (where the phoneme inventory is what you see above), I would like the syllable to be CVC (no optional anything ). Do you think this would work?: First 0 > ʔ / V_# even when the word isn't utterance final, and then 0 > ʔ / V_CV as the epenthetic glottal stop keeps spreading like cancer. Or how about C > Cː / V_V for er... no apparent reason?

[Jetboy]

So, I've been trying something with nasal vowels recently, for the first time. The thing is, I'm not sure how to get rid of them. Is nasalization turning into length attested?

[Herr Dunkel]

So, I've been trying something with nasal vowels recently, for the first time. The thing is, I'm not sure how to get rid of them. Is nasalization turning into length attested?

Doubtfully, since nasal vowels mostly lower the formants of the cardinal vowels, not change their temporal quality - of course, compensatory lenghtening then denasalisation could leave you with nasal vowels.

[Nortaneous]

Lithuanian?

[Herr Dunkel]

Lithuanian?

Or that

[Jetboy]

Anything else more interesting than depositing nasal consonants and denasalizing?

[Herr Dunkel]

Anything else more interesting than depositing nasal consonants and denasalizing?

Lowering in height, I guess.
Or, by rhinoglottophilia, I guess you could get some secondary articulation, though I'm no expert at this shit

[Nortaneous]

nasal vowels are harder to distinguish than oral vowels, so you might have some mergers

[Cedh]

You could have the nasalized vowels cause a mutation in adjacent consonants. Most obviously, plosives following a nasalized vowel could become prenasalized, but you could also have voiced plosives completely turn into nasals in Ṽ_ and/or _Ṽ positions (have a look at Guaraní nasal harmony for a natlang example). Something like that would also work with liquids and other approximants.

In the sound changes leading up to my conlang Tmaśareʔ, I have used both of the latter:
*nãbu > *nãmu > ... > nomo
*ɣũka > *ɰũka > *ŋũka > ... > ɲõka
*kʷẽdu > *kwẽnu > *kmẽnu > ... kmeno

[Jetboy]

Alright, thanks for the ideas!

[Whimemsz]

Nasal vowels are often as longer than corresponding oral short vowels (probably because they normally derive from V+N sequences, and in the course of nasalization become long by compensatory lengthening?). If your conlang lacks contrastive long vowels, you could have your nasal vowels, in the process of denasalization, become a new set of long vowels (or if you have a long set already, the nasalized vowels might merge with them rather than with the short vowels). Though this depends on the specific phonology of your language.

[Qwynegold]

So anyone know about 0 > ʔ / V_CV or C > Cː / V_V?

[Astraios]

So anyone know about 0 > ʔ / V_CV or C > Cː / V_V?

The second one happened in Italian, at least to some consonants.

[Qwynegold]

So anyone know about 0 > ʔ / V_CV or C > Cː / V_V?

The second one happened in Italian, at least to some consonants.

Damn, I've been looking and looking for details about that now, but the only thing I can find is this:

Cj → CCj /V_V

[suelior]

Would ħ > x be plausible with a language that also has χ and h?
also, I'd appreciate it very much if anyone would be so kind as to suggest a consonant that can be plausibly turned into /k/ and /l/.

[communistplot]

So, I had an idea and I wished to know if it were plausible;
I have /s̞/ & /ɬ/ in a new conlang I'm working on and wish to turn them into /r/ &/s/ would

/s̞/ > /r̥/ > /r/
&
/ɬ/ > /s/

work out?

Also one other;

/x̞ʷ/ > /ɰʷ/ > /w/

Does that seem about right?

Thanks a bunch! ;D

[dhok]

Would ħ > x be plausible with a language that also has χ and h?
also, I'd appreciate it very much if anyone would be so kind as to suggest a consonant that can be plausibly turned into /k/ and /l/.

It's possible, of course, but I think there'd probably be a merger first. /χ ħ h/ doesn't strike me as entirely stable...

[Nortaneous]

also, I'd appreciate it very much if anyone would be so kind as to suggest a consonant that can be plausibly turned into /k/ and /l/.

/k͡ʟ̝̊/

alternatively:
1. r > l
2. r > gʟ > ɣ (both attested in Hiw) > x > k, or r > gʟ > g > k