Post your conlang's phonology

[R.Rusanov]

/N/
/p t k q c/
/ʰp ʰt ʰk χ ʰc/
/ᵐb ᵑg ⁿd ᶯɟ/
/p: t: k: q: c:/
/r/
/f s x ʃ/

- The nasal reflects as [m] before a back vowel but [n] generally, ignoring word boundaries - [ʰpæn] but [ʰpæm‿o:ki:]
- The preaspirated consonants cannot follow fricatives
- The geminates are most often realized as preglottalized stops ˀp ˀt ˀk etc.

Code: Select all

i:          
  ɪ       o:
    ɛ:  ɔ
      æ 

- i: is long ɪ
- ɛ: is long æ
- o: is long ɔ

Vowel harmony exists in that no adjacent syllables may have vowels in common of the same height

i.e. [sɛ:ᵐb] with a suffix [-Or] would become [sɛ:ᵐbo:r], not *[sɛ:ᵐbɔr]

Dunno if it's realistic or not

[Pogostick Man]

Code: Select all

i:          
  ɪ       o:
    ɛ:  ɔ
      æ 

- i: is long ɪ
- ɛ: is long æ
- o: is long ɔ

So it's almost like an /a i o/ system, like Pirahã has, just with a length distinction.

Vowel harmony exists in that no adjacent syllables may have vowels in common of the same height

i.e. [sɛ:ᵐb] with a suffix [-Or] would become [sɛ:ᵐbo:r], not *[sɛ:ᵐbɔr]

Dunno if it's realistic or not

IANAExpert but that just seems like a case of systematic dissimilation to me. On its face I wouldn't say that's too implausible.

[Pinetree]

Yet another Pinetrian Phonology (YAPP):

Consonants (C):
P: p pʰ~p͡f ʈ ʈʰ~ʈ͡ʂ k kʰ~k͡x
F: f ʂ x
N: ɳ(Nasal archiphoneme - intervocalically (and in isolation) ɳ, but neighbouring other consonants it assimilates their POA)
L: ɻ ɭ w

Base vowels (V):
a i o u

Vowel contrasts:
a˦ ã˦ aː˦ ãː˦ a˨ ã˨ aː˨ ãː˨
(vowels contrast on nasality, length, and binary tone)

There should be some interesting allophony and/or sandhi involved with the vowels and their contrasts, but I haven't figured that out yet. (Ideas?)

Syllable structure:
(C)(N/L)V(V)(F/N/L)(C)

[2+3 clusivity]

Yet another Pinetrian Phonology (YAPP):

Consonants (C):
P: p pʰ~p͡f ʈ ʈʰ~ʈ͡ʂ k kʰ~k͡x
F: f ʂ x
N: ɳ
L: ɻ ɭ w

I like your stop series allophones. With an inventory this small and with so few POAs, I wonder though if you should generalize your phonemic representation of the "retroflex" series to a more general coronal series, like denti-alveolar, since the retroflex series isn't in contrast with another coronal series.

[Pinetree]

With an inventory this small and with so few POAs, I wonder though if you should generalize your phonemic representation of the "retroflex" series to a more general coronal series, like denti-alveolar, since the retroflex series isn't in contrast with another coronal series.

Well, it may not contrast with any other coronals, but it is pronounced with the tongue strongly retroflexed, and a dental or alveolar pronunciation would be seen as weird or possibly foreign by the majority of the population, so I represented it with the retroflexed series of IPA symbols.

[Buran]

Is this weird enough to be a proto-language?

Code: Select all

Consonants

                Labial  Dental  Palatal Velar
Nasal           m       n
Stop            p       t               k
Fricative       f       s               x
Approximant     β       ð       j       w
Trill                   r
Lateral                 l

2.2     Vowels

                Front   Central Back
Close           i i:    ɨ ɨ:    u u:
Mid-close       e e:    ə ə:    o o:
Open            a a:    ä ä:    ɒ ɒ:

Vowel Harmony

There are two patterns of vowel harmony. Each vowel determines the pattern followed by the next vowel. If the vowel is short, the next vowel has to match it in backness; if it is long, the next vowel has to match it in height. A single word can contain both patterns.

Code: Select all

              Front          Central          Back
Close           i       |       ɨ      |        u
Mid-close       e       |       ə      |        o
Open            a       |       ä      |        ɒ

If V1 in VCV is /e/, V2 must be /i/, /i:/, /e/, /e:/, /a/ or /a:/.

              Front  Central  Back
Close           i:      ɨ:      u:
------------------------------------
Mid-close       e:      ə:      o:
------------------------------------
Open            a:      ä:      ɒ:

If V1 in VCV is /e:/, V2 must be /e/, /e:/, /ə/, /ə:/, /o/, or /o:/.

Phonotactics

(C)S(V)(C)

C = consonant, V = vowel, S = sonorant.

Stress

Stress falls uniformly on the first syllable.

Code: Select all

Orthography

Phoneme         Representation
m               m
n               n
p               p
t               t
k               k
f               f
s               s
x               h
β               b
ð               d
j               j
w               w
r               r
l               l
i               i
ɨ               î
u               u
e               e
ə               ê
o               o
a               a
ä               â
ɒ               ô

Long vowels are written by doubling the letter (so /a:/ is <aa>).

[Drydic]

Examples help, bro.

[Pinetree]

Is this weird enough to be a proto-language?

A worthwhile question is whether or not a protolang must have a weird phonology.

[R.Rusanov]

Your vowel orthography is kinda silly IMO

Why not

Code: Select all

i  y  u
e  ə  o
ä  a  å

[Nortaneous]

I'm guessing because it's easier to type.

The vowel harmony is horrendously unrealistic but everything else looks fine.

[Buran]

The vowel harmony is too symmetrical, I agree. Do you have any ideas how I might make the vowel system more realistic, while also making it so that it can easily be twisted around in the various daughter languages?

[Drydic]

Drop ə and u.

[Click]

Is this weird enough to be a proto-language?

Proto-languages need not to be weirder than others.

[Buran]

What if I reduced the vowel system to

Code: Select all

                Front   Back
Close           i i:    u u:
Mid-close       e e:    o o:
Open            a a:    ɒ ɒ:

with backness harmony? Is harmony only on long vowels or short vowels plausible?

Also, how plausible is derounding of /ɒ/, unconditional or otherwise (it might be absorbed into /a/ in one daughter, into /o/ in another)?

[Nortaneous]

1. realistic, but the old system wasn't unrealistic
2. only on short vowels, yes. only on long vowels, no.
3. plausible, unconditional or otherwise

[Buran]

1. realistic, but the old system wasn't unrealistic

Just how plausible was it, compared to 6 vowels? Would I be better off with the original 9 vowels (since that system can be twisted in more interesting ways)?

[2+3 clusivity]

/m n n̠/
/mbʙ ndr n̠d̠r̠/
/p t t̠ k/
/ɺ̠/
/i i: u u:/
/a a: /

/ndra: n̠d̠r̠ap ma tu:n̠t̠ u:mbʙa in̠d̠r̠ut̠aɺ̠ n̠i/

[Haplogy]

1. realistic, but the old system wasn't unrealistic

Just how plausible was it, compared to 6 vowels? Would I be better off with the original 9 vowels (since that system can be twisted in more interesting ways)?

I think your old system would soon become, like,

/i 1 u/
/e @ o/
/E a O/

[Drydic]

Ok so I'm trying to get a vowel system I'm somewhat happy with, which is impossible but I'm still trying.
The original inventory was this:

Code: Select all

i e æ a u o ɔ ɑ   plus length

too straightforward, so I took a machete to it and got this:

Code: Select all

i e e: æ a a: u o o: ɔ ɑ ɑ:

Not sure if I'm happy enough with it yet. Any thoughts? I'm going for a cross between realism and batshit, if that makes sense.

[Pinetree]

In reference to the phoneme inventory I posted above, I made a preliminary chart for what the homonasal, homotonic vowel pairings are realised as.

[gach]

Could you clarify what exactly do you mean by non syllabic vowels followed by the length mark? If there really are such things as long off glides please tell me. All long or stretched diphthongs I've encountered have been lengthened from their syllabic parts.

[Pinetree]

Could you clarify what exactly do you mean by non syllabic vowels followed by the length mark? If there really are such things as long off glides please tell me. All long or stretched diphthongs I've encountered have been lengthened from their syllabic parts.

Oh. I meant that the diphthong as a whole was lengthened. If that means that the length mark should have been placed in between the vowel and the offglide, so be it.

[maıráí]

Proto:
m n
t d k g
f v s z x ɣ
l
ts ks

a e i o u

CV(C)

Neo:
m n mː nː
t tː k kː
s sː h hː
l lː
ts ks tsː ksː
a e i o u aː eː iː oː uː
And some front-back harmony.

(C)V(C)

[gach]

Could you clarify what exactly do you mean by non syllabic vowels followed by the length mark? If there really are such things as long off glides please tell me. All long or stretched diphthongs I've encountered have been lengthened from their syllabic parts.

Oh. I meant that the diphthong as a whole was lengthened. If that means that the length mark should have been placed in between the vowel and the offglide, so be it.

I guess, if you are using the length mark in phonetic work, it doesn't really matter too much how exactly are you using it. It's just that in strict phonetic notation it always operates on the preceding segment and I felt nitpicky.

The contents of the table themselves look OK, though I found it a bit unexpected that /o/ looses its rounding in the realisation of /ou:/.

[Burke]

Working on a new conlang. How plausible does this sound.

Vowels:

______
\i u|
\e ə o|
\ɛ ɔ|
\ a |

For speed in romanization

i -> i
u -> u
e -> e
o -> o
a -> a
ɛ -> é
ɔ -> ó
ə -> y

The consonants
Phonemes - Romanized - Group
/m,n/ - [m,n] - [N]asal
/p,t,k/ - [b,d,g] - [P]lain
/pʰ,tʰ,kʰ,kʷʰ,kʲʰ,t͡s,t͡sʰ/ [p,t,k,kw,kj,z,c] - [A]spirate (will explain for z later)
/kʷ,kʲ,x,xʷ/ - [gw,gj,x,xw] - [V]elar misc
/w,j,l,r/ - [w,j,l,r] - [G]lides
/s/ - [s] - [s] s

Syllable structure, following barcketed letters above with C as any consonant

(C)V(G)(N)(T)(s)
labialized consonants (w, gw, kw, xw, etc) cannot precede u or o
palatalized consonants (j,gj,etc) cannot precede i

Synchronic sound changes.

Deaspiration:

Aspirated consonants will lose their aspiration if the last consonant was itself aspirated, an s, x or xw.

Examples:

sa + kwét -> sagwét
cam + kjosi -> camkjosi (since the the m interrupts the s)
dinas + cajm -> dinaszajm (since the terminal s is not blocked to the c)

This will occur a little bit with prefixing and in verbal conjugation

Terminal nasal assimilation:

n -> ŋ / _(any velar)

Does this seem plausible? Are there any other synchronic changes you would personally add, or maybe remove one of mine? Any serious gaps?

Also, I'm sort of leaning towards the removal of the schwa (my y). Do you think it is worthwhile in this set up?

Any comments and criticism welcome. I'll try to get more examples, hopefully soundclouds, once this is a bit more substanital.

[EDIT] I will also cover stress patterns and prosody later, just ironing this out first.